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Old 09-13-2004, 08:12 PM   #26
Rupert Atkinson
 
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Re: Osu!

I'd say that article was wrong.
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Old 09-15-2004, 05:08 PM   #27
siwilson
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Re: Osu!

Well, not all of it, but an interesting Romanisation!

Any Japanese experts want to comment on thar?

I do hold that it is right that "Osu" means to push ourselves through any hardship!

Last edited by siwilson : 09-15-2004 at 05:10 PM.

Osu!
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Old 09-21-2004, 03:48 AM   #28
sjm924
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Re: Osu!

Quote:
Craig Hocker wrote:
Purposeful occasions like say at the formal closing of a class ?
I don't hear it being used otherwise much in dojos except in that instance.
This is really not relevant.

You seem to be carrying around a big chip on your shoulder of us-them baggage and what almost sounds like hakama-envy.

"Osu" apparently means different things in different contexts. What language doesn't have such complexity ? According to what is posted here, those in the Yoshinkan feel that "Osu!" has a deeper meaning than what the general public in Japan is aware of. Why are you looking for a conspiracy ?
Dear "Ki Ronin,"

To me, there is relevance. But I respect your opinion in disagreement. Also, my classes are formal and we do say "thank you" in Japanese, however we say it without "domo." Again, too formal.

Additionally, I have no chips, I have no need for them. I was just expressing my opinion (which is what you do in forums). Ok, I was venting some frustration, too. But hey, I'm human. Hakama envy?? Um. . . yeah, I own two myself. It's just my sense of humor. And I'm actually quite loveable and a little crazy .

Sooo. . . "Ki Ronin". . . or should I call you "Energy/Spirit Masterless Samurai" (too formal?). . . you sound like a pretty dangerous guy. I know! You must be a Jedi!!! Somehow you intuitively knew about my fetish for conspiracies!?!?
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Old 05-19-2005, 06:08 PM   #29
ESimmons
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Re: Osu!

Yoshinkai aikido is taught at my dojo, and I hear the word "osu" quite frequently. I think there is sort of an "osu bandwagon" which I have yet to get aboard.

As I understand it, there is already a Japanese word for "yes" or "i understand", and that is "hai". If I am greeting someone/being greeted with a respectful bow, I don't see the need to throw in an "osu". If someone takes a hard spill during a demonstration or test, I find the use of the word "osu" (among other things, such as laughter) to be distasteful and a sign of impulsivity.

I understand where some people are coming from with the well-meaning intent of "osu", but from my limited experience, I just don't see it. Rather, I see, as I said, an "osu bandwagon" where the word "osu" is way overused. That being said, I'm sure there are students and, more likely, teachers at my dojo who have a good understanding of the word and don't abuse it, and I don't really have a problem with others using it anyway (aside from during the aforementioned tests, where I am irritated by noise not coming from sensei, uke, or nage). However, I don't see myself ever using it, and I don't appreciate the opinion expressed in one article posted in this thread that insinuates students of a certain school of aikido should be required to say "osu".

As always, however, my mind is never made up.
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Old 05-19-2005, 10:35 PM   #30
maikerus
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Re: Osu!

Quote:
Eric Simmons wrote:
I don't see the need to throw in an "osu". If someone takes a hard spill during a demonstration or test, I find the use of the word "osu" (among other things, such as laughter) to be distasteful and a sign of impulsivity.
This seems strange to me and I come from a training background where saying "Osu" appropriately was an active part of our study/training.

There are definately certain places where saying "Osu" is inappropriate, however there are also situations where saying "Osu" is pretty much required. A beginning "Osu-er" often gets this wrong by "Osu-ing" far too much. I remember it being kind of funny to listen to new senshusei "Osu" out of context...of course we would have to correct them and they would get better at it.

It sounds to me that the dojo you train at doesn't quite have it, yet...and this is unfortunate. It is a good tool and does focus attention in many different situations. However, if it is appears to you as an "Osu Bandwagon" then it probably is being inappropriately used and as I said, saying it when getting thrown hard is just weird.

On a personal note, I originaly prefered "Osu" to "Hai" because where I grew up, the word "Hai" meant "What?" as in "What did you say?". This was very confusing when I started to speak Japanese since I kept saying "Hai" and thinking "I am saying 'yes' not 'what did you just say'". I don't have that problem now, though But I still say "Osu".

FYI...the first language was Inuktutut

cheers,

--Michael

Hiriki no yosei 3 - The kihon that makes your head ache instead of your legs
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Old 05-19-2005, 11:21 PM   #31
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Re: Osu!

Quote:
Michael Stuempel wrote:
However, if it is appears to you as an "Osu Bandwagon" then it probably is being inappropriately used and as I said, saying it when getting thrown hard is just weird.
I'd just like to clear this up in case there is confusion. What I was referring to is when students are watching people test, and someone takes a hard fall or someone does a technique that someone perceives as particularly effective, some observing students will say "osu". I wasn't saying that people actually say "osu" as uke, or nage for that matter.

And the reason I find it distasteful is it's distracting, and I think that half the people that say "osu" are on the aforementioned "osu bandwagon" and aren't in any position to be using it. I never see any of the sensei say it while they grade, so I find it more appropriate to just sit quietly and focus on what's going on. I also find it disturbing when people laugh, make comments, and/or cheer others on during the test. That last point I find kind of childish, like something you would see in a kid's karate class.

That being said, the dojo is not as bad as I probably make it sound. Sometimes tests will go around 3 hours, and for the most part, everyone just sits quietly and respectfully observes what's going on, clapping at the end of tests or demonstrations. (Which is, of course, entirely appropriate, in my opinion.)

But, like I said, it's just my own personal taste, and I don't speak up about it or expect anyone to conform to my views.

Last edited by ESimmons : 05-19-2005 at 11:23 PM.
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Old 05-19-2005, 11:32 PM   #32
maikerus
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Re: Osu!

Eric..in either case it sounds inappropriate to me. Also for the reasons you stated.

FWIW,

--Michael

Hiriki no yosei 3 - The kihon that makes your head ache instead of your legs
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Old 05-20-2005, 12:17 AM   #33
siwilson
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Re: Osu!

Quote:
Eric Simmons wrote:
I don't see the need to throw in an "osu". If someone takes a hard spill during a demonstration or test
I know Eric has explained this (see below), but actually I see that when you are tired and are thrown hard "Osu" ("To push yourself through any hardship") is more than appropriate, it is damn essential (to those who understand it.

Quote:
Eric Simmons wrote:
What I was referring to is when students are watching people test, and someone takes a hard fall or someone does a technique that someone perceives as particularly effective, some observing students will say "osu".
Yep, that is unusual, although I have been at tests where those on-looking yudansha audibly comment on whar rhey are watching - not what I would do!

Here is the new link to the meaning of "Osu":

http://www.shudokan.org.uk/osu/index.htm

OSU!

Si

Osu!
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Old 05-20-2005, 02:25 AM   #34
maikerus
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Re: Osu!

Quote:
Si Wilson wrote:
I know Eric has explained this (see below), but actually I see that when you are tired and are thrown hard "Osu" ("To push yourself through any hardship") is more than appropriate, it is damn essential (to those who understand it.
Hmm...I hate to disagree with you Si, but I do. Unless you are advocating talking to yourself

Osu is something said to someone else. It is not a kiai or a way of chanting or anything about digging deeper within yourself. It is a way of showing respect between people of similar minds and reminding *each other* to persevere.

Quote:
"Also, in the field of Budo it is used as a greeting or reply with the connotation as a sign of your willingness to follow a particular teacher or way of training.
I read the link again...I was with Robert Sensei when he was working on that article...and I don't believe anywhere in there does it suggest that "Osu" be used by oneself. I think the above is probably the most indicitive of what he was trying to get across...(although I reserve the right to be wrong ) In this case it might mean "I will dig deeper to follow your teachings to the best of my ability", but again it is said to another person.


For drawing inner strength when exhausted and hurting I advocate stronger/louder kiai's, put everything you have into kamae and maybe a good "Isshou" now and then to your partner and when it gets really tough let out a primal roar that make your teachers grin to themselves, but gives you the energy to get you through the next technique.

FWIW,

--Michael

Hiriki no yosei 3 - The kihon that makes your head ache instead of your legs
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Old 05-20-2005, 02:34 AM   #35
siwilson
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Re: Osu!

Quote:
Michael Stuempel wrote:
Hmm...I hate to disagree with you Si, but I do. Unless you are advocating talking to yourself
Hi Michael,

Actually, err, I was, and to everyone else in earshot!!!

Now you know how it keeps everyone going in Hajimi classes. Everyone giving a loud committed "OSU!" from the depth of their Hara, all together. It kept me going through the hops at the end of one, with Joe Thambu Sensei doing them next to me and hitting me every time I shifted my weight!!!

I like Joe Sensei's definition - "Joe Thambu Sensei (Aikido Shudokan, Australia) also says that he feels we should look at "Osu" as saying "Please be patient with me", for both the student and teacher."

Osu,

Si

Osu!
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Old 05-20-2005, 02:45 AM   #36
maikerus
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Re: Osu!

Hey Si,

Interesting. An "Osu" wouldn't come out of me uncalled for in Hajime...not the way the primal roars do

However...when in Hajime and the instructor shouts something like "Dig! Keep it going! Don't lose focus!" then a community of "Osu" would come out from everyone. I think the difference is that when we were doing hajime we would call "isshou" (together) or just kiai louder and stronger unless shouted at. The cops would call "Fighto" and "isshou" and sometimes just scream in abandon...



FWIW,

--Michael

Hiriki no yosei 3 - The kihon that makes your head ache instead of your legs
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Old 06-12-2005, 10:55 AM   #37
siwilson
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Re: Osu!

Hi Michael

I think we are talking about the same thing.

When we see an Uke fighting to keep going in Jiyu Waza, we shout to them to keep them going, they will kiai, grunt, groan, but the best response is always "Osu!"

As I said in my example - My "OSU!" to Joe Sensei was to his, err, prompts, and kept me going!!!! So I was talking to me too!

Osu!
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Old 06-13-2005, 09:34 PM   #38
ad_adrian
 
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Re: Osu!

we at yoshinkan brisbane say osu!! all the time
and it is used for a great deal of respect also

sometimes when im serving customers at my job i almost say
osu...and give a little bow....
but i remember not to they would all think im werid lol
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Old 06-14-2005, 03:54 AM   #39
james c williams
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Re: Osu!

I almost started saying osu at the Aikikai dojo I go to since I started Yoshinkan... luckily I restrained last minute!

In the aikikai dojo I go to we tend not to say much other than the standard onegai shimasu and arigato gozaimashita at the beginning and end of class respectively.

Osu! (to the ones that understand it!)

J
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Old 06-14-2005, 06:00 PM   #40
maikerus
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Re: Osu!

I remember training at an Aikikai club one day - have no memory of when/where or even what country - but I remember being completely surprised by the "onegaishimasu" at the bow before starting training with your partner.

I don't think it was in Japan, because I had a tough time picking "onegaishimasu" out of the non-Japanese accent <wry grin>

Osu!

Last edited by maikerus : 06-14-2005 at 06:10 PM.

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Old 06-14-2005, 06:51 PM   #41
Rupert Atkinson
 
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Re: Osu!

I think I wrote it above somewhere, but my take on osu at the beginning of practice is that it is a shortened form of "onegaeshimas" and at the end, it is a shortened form of "domo arigatou goaimashita." I got this from a year spent at Chuo University - the first years (ichi nensei) said the whole form to be polite and the more senior you got the shorter it got, ending up with "osu". That's the way I see it.

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Old 06-14-2005, 07:03 PM   #42
siwilson
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Re: Osu!

Rupert,

You are out of context to this thread, as it is the context of the Yoshinkan use of "Osu" we are talking about, and that has no shortening. It is said with the most respect and energy. A link to the meaning of "Osu" is below.

http://www.shudokan.org.uk/osu/index.htm

Cheers,

Si

Osu!
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Old 06-14-2005, 07:53 PM   #43
maikerus
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Re: Osu!

Rupert...I think the shortening form of Osu is from "Ohaiyo Goziamasu" as pronounced by those too lazy to say the whole thing. This is actually quite common in Japanese...to shorton common phrases like this...or so I have been told. I can't think of any others right now.

In any event, as Si points out...this particular "Osu" is not that shortened Osu, but has a meaning in its own right.

cheers,

--Michael

Hiriki no yosei 3 - The kihon that makes your head ache instead of your legs
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Old 06-14-2005, 08:25 PM   #44
Rupert Atkinson
 
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Re: Osu!

I have never heard of osu having kanji-meaning in its own right in the context as above. I would say the link - a couple of posts above - contans wrong info. There are no Chinese characters for osu in this context. I would say someone just made it up on a whim. Could be wrong of course ... but never afraid to state my opinion. Can you confirm your meaning of osu from a reliable Japanese source?

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Old 06-14-2005, 10:23 PM   #45
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Re: Osu!

Quote:
Rupert Atkinson wrote:
I have never heard of osu having kanji-meaning in its own right in the context as above. There are no Chinese characters for osu in this context.
Ok, here are the kanji that I know to form Osu.
1st one: oshi
2nd one: shinobu

(1st and 3rd of the 4: couldn't put them vertically).

If it's not, I'm now kinda curious what Mori Sensei _really_ put on my T-shirt...
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Last edited by stuartjvnorton : 06-14-2005 at 10:27 PM.
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Old 06-14-2005, 10:36 PM   #46
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Re: Osu!

Don't anyone tell him. This is a polite forum besides which my profanity filters would rebel.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 06-14-2005, 11:04 PM   #47
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Re: Osu!

Quote:
Peter Rehse wrote:
Don't anyone tell him. This is a polite forum besides which my profanity filters would rebel.

Oi!! Leave my mother out of it...
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Old 06-15-2005, 11:16 AM   #48
siwilson
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Re: Osu!

Quote:
Rupert Atkinson wrote:
I have never heard of osu having kanji-meaning in its own right in the context as above. I would say the link - a couple of posts above - contans wrong info. There are no Chinese characters for osu in this context. I would say someone just made it up on a whim. Could be wrong of course ... but never afraid to state my opinion. Can you confirm your meaning of osu from a reliable Japanese source?
Hi Rupert

That article was written by Robert Mustard Sensei whilst an instructor at the Yoshinkan Hombu Daja in Tokyu. I think if he was wrong someone would have told him.

I would also say that Mustarfd Sensei is a very reliable source.

Si

Osu!
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Old 06-15-2005, 11:33 AM   #49
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Osu!

Hi Rupert,

Is Dave Lowry a reliable source? I believe one of his early books list the kanji and definition for many words and phrases in MA. Osu was one of them. Mr. Lowry provided the same kanji.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...765142-3686835

http://www.koryubooks.com/books/brush.html

Best,
Ron

Last edited by Ron Tisdale : 06-15-2005 at 11:41 AM.

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Old 06-16-2005, 08:25 AM   #50
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Re: Osu!

is osu actually understood or used in the normal japanese language?
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