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Old 09-15-2014, 12:29 PM   #1
ChrisMikk
 
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nafudakake & uchi-deshi & dojo

I completely revised the Wikipedia article on nafudakake. The new article draws heavily on content from AikiWeb forums. Thanks, one and all. From now on, when somebody posts a question here about "those wooden thingys on the wall," you can just point them to the Wikipedia article.

The next Wikipedia entry I am working on is "uchi-deshi," then "dojo." If anyone has info on these topics they think should go in a revised article, you can let me know here.

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Old 09-16-2014, 05:05 AM   #2
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Re: nafudakake & uchi-deshi & dojo

掛け means to hang, as in hanging a picture. Slight nuance if you want to update your post on nafudakake.
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Old 09-16-2014, 08:11 AM   #3
Carl Thompson
 
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Re: nafudakake & uchi-deshi & dojo

Quote:
Mike Braxton wrote: View Post
掛け means to hang, as in hanging a picture. Slight nuance if you want to update your post on nafudakake.
I thought nafuda was more of an issue. 掛け is just the noun form of 掛ける. After another noun it can be a "hanging place" as in "name-plate (nafuda) hanging place" which I think is okay as "rack" in English. However, nafuda isn't just the "thin, rectangular wooden plaques" as in the article. It can also be name tags on baggage or the wearable ID people use in offices, McDonalds etc. I think "Nafuda" needs a separate entry and the current "nafudakake" should reference it, pointing out that in this context, they are usually wooden etc.

Another thing is I think the article references aikido too much. While I understand the desire to share information about martial arts and good teachers within one's favourite one, referencing the author's own dojo to that extent is a bit too much like advertising.

I'd love to see a McDonalds nafudakake as the example.

Regards

Carl
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Old 09-16-2014, 08:30 AM   #4
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Re: nafudakake & uchi-deshi & dojo

Quote:
Carl Thompson wrote: View Post
IAnother thing is I think the article references aikido too much. While I understand the desire to share information about martial arts and good teachers within one's favourite one, referencing the author's own dojo to that extent is a bit too much like advertising.
Always the danger with Wiki articles but the hope is that it will evolve with other contributers which is the nature of the beast. What may be interesting is the reaction to the number of references to this forum. Forum and blog posts are not considered optimal references even though they often contain interesting information.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 09-16-2014, 08:57 AM   #5
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Re: nafudakake & uchi-deshi & dojo

Quote:
Peter Rehse wrote: View Post
Always the danger with Wiki articles but the hope is that it will evolve with other contributers which is the nature of the beast. What may be interesting is the reaction to the number of references to this forum. Forum and blog posts are not considered optimal references even though they often contain interesting information.
Hello Peter

Your unbiased work on Wikipedia is very much appreciated.

What happened with the number of references to this forum? I agree about the dangers as well as evolution through contribution taking it's course, although I consider this thread to be part of that process, especially since the article's contributors include the OP.

Regards

Carl
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Old 09-16-2014, 09:18 AM   #6
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Re: nafudakake & uchi-deshi & dojo

Quote:
Carl Thompson wrote: View Post
What happened with the number of references to this forum?l
Nothing yet - I actually think how Chris structured and used the forum posts to be interesting and worth including. However, it definitely is a bit outside the box and if someone wanted to have their hackles raised that might be it.

In my opinion forum and blogs are acceptable as long as they are a minor subset of the references. Notability (the big thing as far as wikipedia is concernced) can not be established except by more reliable third party sources. Anyway - the article is pretty obscure at the moment so maybe nothing will happen.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 09-18-2014, 09:26 AM   #7
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Re: nafudakake & uchi-deshi & dojo

It's a small world. Peter and I disagreed over at Wikipedia, but I didn't realize at the time that he was a contributor here too. Now I recognize I used him as a reference in articles he is referencing!

Quote:
Mike Braxton wrote: View Post
掛け means to hang, as in hanging a picture. Slight nuance if you want to update your post on nafudakake.
My understanding of Japanese is pretty limited, and I use Jim Breen's WWWJDIC as a reference. Over there, it says that "kake" following other words can have a number of meanings including "rack." I don't think it is the verb in this case.

Quote:
Carl Thompson wrote: View Post
nafuda isn't just the "thin, rectangular wooden plaques" as in the article. It can also be name tags on baggage or the wearable ID people use in offices, McDonalds etc. I think "Nafuda" needs a separate entry and the current "nafudakake" should reference it, pointing out that in this context, they are usually wooden etc.
Wikipedia doesn't try to be a repository of all knowledge in the world. We have Google for that. Instead, English language Wikipedia tries to include articles that are of interest ("Notable" in Wikipedia-speak) to English-language speakers. Use of the "thin, rectangular wooden plaques" in budo dojos is of some interest to (some) English speakers. Japanese words for tags on baggage are not really. So, I disagree with you that "nafuda" needs its own entry--given this standard, virtually every word in Japanese would warrant its own Wikipedia article. I also disagree with Peter Rehse that hopefully other Wikipedians will expand the article. I think a discussion of other meanings of "nafuda" and "nafudakake" would be pointless and detract from the article. In fact, although I left in the previous version of the article's reference to nafuda listing the names of flowers in a garden, I almost deleted it as pointless for English language readers.

I do agree that it makes too much reference to aikido as opposed to other arts, but, hey, I study aikido!

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Old 09-19-2014, 04:12 AM   #8
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Re: nafudakake & uchi-deshi & dojo

Thanks for the response Christian
Quote:
Christian Mikkelson wrote: View Post
Wikipedia doesn't try to be a repository of all knowledge in the world.
Wikipedia is actually an encyclopaedia; they say so themselves.

And there is even an entry for "name tag".
Quote:
Christian Mikkelson wrote: View Post
So, I disagree with you that "nafuda" needs its own entry--given this standard, virtually every word in Japanese would warrant its own Wikipedia article.
I don't get how having a separate entry in Japanese would necessitate having every other word from that language there too.Since there already is a separate entry on nafuda/name tags in English anyway, couldn't you just reference that and clarify the use of the Japanese word for them in this situation?

As for referencing too much aikido, that is where the expansion Peter mentioned would be a good thing.

Regards

Carl
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Old 09-29-2014, 09:43 AM   #9
ChrisMikk
 
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Re: nafudakake & uchi-deshi & dojo

Quote:
Carl Thompson wrote: View Post
Since there already is a separate entry on nafuda/name tags in English anyway, couldn't you just reference that and clarify the use of the Japanese word for them in this situation?
I'm confused. I don't see a separate entry on nafuda in English. There is one in Wiktionary, but that is a separate entity from Wikipedia. Anyhow, I have taken the article to the point that I am satisfied with it.

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