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Old 03-27-2011, 07:29 PM   #376
Ketsan
Dojo: Zanshin Kai
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Matt Morris wrote: View Post
Aikido is what Aikido is.
There is nothing in the universe that is not what it is.
 
Old 03-27-2011, 08:24 PM   #377
Michael Hackett
Dojo: Kenshinkan Dojo (Aikido of North County) Vista, CA
Location: Oceanside, California
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

I had a still different view of the Tohei/"Cameraman" film clip. My view was that Tohei Sensei was playing with the guy and trying not to do anything that would actually injure him. The man was a wrestler and sidekick to the star of the show and it would have been a mess if he'd been thrown in a corner on his head from a PR standpoint. Could Tohei Sensei have thrown him around? I don't know, but I certainly think so from what I saw. I don't think Gus (as I recall that was his name) could have safely received a high koshinage or quick iriminage without injury. He appeared strong, but overweight and out of shape. The program would have been far different had Tohei savaged the guy.

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
 
Old 03-27-2011, 11:01 PM   #378
Gorgeous George
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Is this the clip under discussion?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-0RFvgy7-0

The narrator mentions how Tohei sensei is deliberately not using any techniques that could harm the man.

Also: I recall that no less a source than Chiba sensei tells a story of how Tohei sensei accepted a challenge at Hombu from some South American wrestlers, and he easily defeated them - pinning one with just his tegatana, I believe.

And he also fought in World War II, didn't he? - But y'know?: maybe he didn't know how to handle himself in a physical confrontation...
 
Old 03-28-2011, 08:32 AM   #379
graham christian
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

On watching the Tohei clip I remember seeing the whole documentary.

I'm surprised by any who think that was not good Aikido. Especially taking into account the guy was untrained and very big.

Does anyone still practice and thus recognise Ma-ai? May I add keeping Ma-ai.

Of course the guy was unfit for he just wanted to know if his bulk could be handled by what he was being shown. A good uke.

He was made to look more ungamely by Toheis motion combined with the discipline of keeping Ma-ai. When he entered he soon finished it so the guy got an experience he wouldn't forget and totally different no doubt to what he'd experienced before. Job done.

If I remember correctly he got an even better experience at the hands of O'Sensei.( unless that was the other guy)

I think his Aikido was up to reality.

Regards.G.
 
Old 04-01-2011, 03:46 PM   #380
Hellis
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Tony

If you are still reading this forum ? come back all is forgiven.
It is too quiet without your input.

Henry Ellis
Aikido Controversy
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com/
 
Old 04-02-2011, 06:33 AM   #381
mickeygelum
 
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Oh Tony....you're so fine....you're so fine....you blow my mind....HEY TONY !
 
Old 04-03-2011, 01:12 AM   #382
dps
 
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Tony

If you are still reading this forum ? come back all is forgiven.
It is too quiet without your input.

Henry Ellis
Aikido Controversy
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com/
Maybe Tony has banned Aikiweb from his computer.

dps

Trust only movement. Life happens at the level of events not of words. Trust movement. --Alfred Adler
 
Old 04-03-2011, 09:55 AM   #383
graham christian
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

To me the question is nonsensical.

I would ask rather 'Is your reality up to Aikido?'

To you this may be nonsensical.

To Aikido it's obvious!
 
Old 04-03-2011, 10:42 AM   #384
Hellis
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
Maybe Tony has banned Aikiweb from his computer.

dps
David

I imagine that Graham is thinking the same

Henry Ellis
Aikido Controversy
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com/
 
Old 04-03-2011, 12:47 PM   #385
Ketsan
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
To me the question is nonsensical.

I would ask rather 'Is your reality up to Aikido?'

To you this may be nonsensical.

To Aikido it's obvious!
"Your reality" is nonsensical. There is only one reality.
 
Old 04-03-2011, 01:35 PM   #386
hughrbeyer
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Alex Lawrence wrote: View Post
"Your reality" is nonsensical. There is only one reality.
The voices in my head say otherwise.
 
Old 04-03-2011, 03:31 PM   #387
graham christian
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
David

I imagine that Graham is thinking the same

Henry Ellis
Aikido Controversy
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com/
Henry. What makes you think so?

Both you and Tony I have nothing against. Just because you overtly oppose a lot of my views doesn't make you an enemy of mine. It certainly doesn't make me worry about what you think for that is your right.

Associating anything I say with Tony is childish.

Unlike some on this forum I do not run to teacher (jun) to complain even if I do find his aim is to offend sometimes.

I bow to no man and yet I bow to all in humility.

Regards.G.
 
Old 04-03-2011, 05:58 PM   #388
Hellis
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Henry. What makes you think so?

Both you and Tony I have nothing against. Just because you overtly oppose a lot of my views doesn't make you an enemy of mine. It certainly doesn't make me worry about what you think for that is your right.

Associating anything I say with Tony is childish.

Unlike some on this forum I do not run to teacher (jun) to complain even if I do find his aim is to offend sometimes.

I bow to no man and yet I bow to all in humility.

Regards.G.
Graham

What makes me think so ?
It is the difference between your idea of reality and what I imagine Tony's to be.
How on earth could I become an enemy of yours ? I don't know you, I have never met you...Why should you worry what I or anyone else on here says? It is a forum, as with most forums people say things they would not say to you personally, I am sure that Tony would as I know I would.

The only problem I have with you Graham is, I often wonder what planet you are on, and how the el you got there.
Other than that you seem a really nice guy.

Henry Ellis
Aikido in MMA
http://rik-ellis.blogspot.com/
 
Old 04-03-2011, 06:17 PM   #389
graham christian
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Graham

What makes me think so ?
It is the difference between your idea of reality and what I imagine Tony's to be.
How on earth could I become an enemy of yours ? I don't know you, I have never met you...Why should you worry what I or anyone else on here says? It is a forum, as with most forums people say things they would not say to you personally, I am sure that Tony would as I know I would.

The only problem I have with you Graham is, I often wonder what planet you are on, and how the el you got there.
Other than that you seem a really nice guy.

Henry Ellis
Aikido in MMA
http://rik-ellis.blogspot.com/
Henry.
I bow to your response. Straight and honest.

I understand you must think I'm on another planet sometimes and can recall some things I've said that would make you feel so. However I can do what I say and if that makes some wonder then so be it. I recall mentioning Ki atsu and I have and do use it to heal others, help them heal or discover what they need in order to heal. All three. That may sound as you describe then so be it.

Anyway if you ever want to visit then all you need is one spacecraft and a galactic map.

Respectfully.G.
 
Old 04-04-2011, 04:05 AM   #390
Ketsan
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Hugh Beyer wrote: View Post
The voices in my head say otherwise.
 
Old 04-04-2011, 11:55 AM   #391
Hellis
Dojo: Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Henry.
I bow to your response. Straight and honest.

I understand you must think I'm on another planet sometimes and can recall some things I've said that would make you feel so. However I can do what I say and if that makes some wonder then so be it. I recall mentioning Ki atsu and I have and do use it to heal others, help them heal or discover what they need in order to heal. All three. That may sound as you describe then so be it.

Anyway if you ever want to visit then all you need is one spacecraft and a galactic map.

Respectfully.G.
Graham

Next time I see a UFO I will give you a friendly wave

Respect to you too.

Henry Ellis
Aikido Articles
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/
 
Old 04-04-2011, 12:00 PM   #392
graham christian
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Smile Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Graham

Next time I see a UFO I will give you a friendly wave

Respect to you too.

Henry Ellis
Aikido Articles
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/
Remember, if the Alien is not wearing a hat then it's not me.
 
Old 04-19-2011, 08:26 AM   #393
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Graham Jenkins wrote: View Post
Is this the clip under discussion?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-0RFvgy7-0

The narrator mentions how Tohei sensei is deliberately not using any techniques that could harm the man.

Also: I recall that no less a source than Chiba sensei tells a story of how Tohei sensei accepted a challenge at Hombu from some South American wrestlers, and he easily defeated them - pinning one with just his tegatana, I believe.

And he also fought in World War II, didn't he? - But y'know?: maybe he didn't know how to handle himself in a physical confrontation...
I know plenty of people that were in the last war, two of whom I worked with in my older occupation as a sparky, they were both plumbers....
One was a desert rat and one was a submariner Both said they sh***e themselves on many an occasions during their war service, of which I have no doubt!!. Both of them are now sadly deceased.....
They both knew I did martial arts and referred to it as juju (which I found quite amusing ) In conversation they told me they did not get taught any martial arts other than unarmed and armed combat in training..... Did they ever use it? Only one and he said it was effing dirty, but it worked!!.... He wasn't proud of what he did and quite often laughed at those who took part in the remembrance parades, we see every year.... He was gad that he just survived it all. All BS was his words!!
I can tell you now that he had a row of campaign medals to weigh any old soldier down on one side, but he said" It was for what?" I think I know where he was coming from, when we see what has happened in this country over the years.....
Both did actually come to the dojo that I taught, to see what we got up to...... both liked very much what I had to offer people. They thought it was very similar to what they were taught for unarmed combat...... Short and sweet and to the point, but still refered to it as Juju
From what I saw of the Tohei clip it was pretty obvious to me that it was tamed down a bit, no different to a Shodokan bout.... All this crap where you see him take on 5 - 6 attackers is well OTT and I do not buy it other than a demonstration of getting out of the way, nice when you have a nice flat surface and the only obstructions are the other "attackers" It's about time that those irrational people who think he can actually do that in a real scenario, please get real, and please don't be fooled..... It ain't real and never will be.....
 
Old 04-19-2011, 08:31 AM   #394
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
On watching the Tohei clip I remember seeing the whole documentary.

I'm surprised by any who think that was not good Aikido. Especially taking into account the guy was untrained and very big.

Does anyone still practice and thus recognise Ma-ai? May I add keeping Ma-ai.

Of course the guy was unfit for he just wanted to know if his bulk could be handled by what he was being shown. A good uke.

He was made to look more ungamely by Toheis motion combined with the discipline of keeping Ma-ai. When he entered he soon finished it so the guy got an experience he wouldn't forget and totally different no doubt to what he'd experienced before. Job done.

If I remember correctly he got an even better experience at the hands of O'Sensei.( unless that was the other guy)

I think his Aikido was up to reality.

Regards.G.
Same goes for you to Graham......
 
Old 04-19-2011, 08:33 AM   #395
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Mark Ackrill wrote: View Post
I am sorry,but Tohei struggled!!!! Maybe his Ki was low that day!

Patterned training leads to failure!

And besides it was an impromptu act!!
A realist?...... Me thinks so
 
Old 04-19-2011, 08:39 AM   #396
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Greg Steckel wrote: View Post
priceless guys!

Greg
My gosh George those carrots have done you some good!!
You have lost a lot of excess I see..... well done
 
Old 04-19-2011, 08:40 AM   #397
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Remember, if the Alien is not wearing a hat then it's not me.
Oh dear Tetley.....
 
Old 04-19-2011, 08:42 AM   #398
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Alex Lawrence wrote: View Post
"Without me my rifle is useless, without my rifle I am useless."

The question is therefore about the nature of Aikido. Is it a rifle; does it function as a martial art? If a shodan Judoka requests and is granted a sparring match with a yondan Aikidoka and the Aikidoka looses should his students continue with him? Would it still be reasonable to say that the yondan is a skilled Aikidoka?
In martial terms what should we expect from Aikido in various situations?
Not a lot from what I've seen.....
 
Old 04-19-2011, 08:46 AM   #399
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Alex Lawrence wrote: View Post
Considering the way petrol prices are going that's quite generous!
Be worth it though....
 
Old 04-19-2011, 09:06 AM   #400
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
Tony:

I do not ask people to hold back. I tell them to give it to me. I am an old karateka, wrestler, etc.... I was doing that stuff way before they called it MMA. You cannot seem to wrap your head around the fact that you do have a very narrow perspective. The only resistance that you seem to be engaged in is akin to banging you head again and again against the concrete wall. No holes in the wall yet. You should lift your head, look around and see that there are other ways to get around the wall in front of you. What you think that you know impedes with you learning more. You have been given countless opportunities to recognize your self-imposed limitations and the only thing heard are excuses as to why you won't explore some more effective alternatives to what you are doing.

On that note, maybe you should focus more on your Aikidocise for those overweight people who need to lose weight .

Marc Abrams
Like George you mean.....?
 

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