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Old 03-05-2011, 04:15 PM   #76
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
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Re: Silk reeling

Japanese or Chinese, the basic principles in these things are related... but only if you understand the basic principles.

For instance, the guy in this video is doing Fune-kogi undo (second set of movements), suburi, sayu-undo, reeling-silk, etc., if you see through clear eyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP9Fo...eature=related

FWIW

Mike Sigman
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Old 03-05-2011, 04:35 PM   #77
Gary David
 
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Re: Silk reeling

Mike
Thanks for putting this up. I see nothing out of place for movements that could easily be Aikido if the understanding is there.
Gary
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Old 03-08-2011, 05:00 PM   #78
Mike Sigman
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Re: Silk reeling

Quote:
Gary Welborn wrote: View Post
Mike
Thanks for putting this up. I see nothing out of place for movements that could easily be Aikido if the understanding is there.
Gary
There are so many obvious technical questions, Gary. But other than wanting directions to the Tao (which way?... I'll pay for a workshop; my twelfth this year), most people don't seem to have that much motivation to think out loud and work. Look at what Ikeda quietly did.

Until Aikido is regained by the hard-thinkers and practicers.....



Mike
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Old 03-13-2011, 12:34 PM   #79
Jon Marshall
Dojo: Bath Aikido Society
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Re: Silk reeling

Hi All,

I do some Chen-style silk-reeling. I did have a little bit of quality instruction a few years ago, but basically I'm fumbling about on my own with the help of good ol' YouTube and the odd article.

After numerous dabblings, I've come to the rather obvious conclusion that the most effective exercises are the ones I can actually be bothered to do. And since I find the silk-reeling exercises to be profound and beautiful, I find my motivation to perform them is greater than with most other exercises.

On that note, I wonder if anyone can shed any light on the following quote from Akuzawa (who's highly respected exercises I have no experience of, and are, I think most people would agree, less elegant than silk-reeling):

Quote:
You have to put hard into your body. So by putting hard into your body, it creates pathways to make hard and soft. It becomes sand, gravel and water mixed together in you. What the Chen style guys do, against what I do, it doesn't work. Not against someone with a weird body like mine, not against seasoned fighters.
Full article here.

Akuzawa seems to be saying that his internal power is different from the Chen internal power developed, in part, through silk-reeling. Controversial.

I may not have internet access for a week, so apologies if I don't respond quickly to anyones responses.

Cheers,
Jon
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Old 03-13-2011, 09:49 PM   #80
Budd
 
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Re: Silk reeling

Hmmm if I remember some of the aftermath Rob and Tim had to amend what they said a bit as it was unclear if Ark had actually gotten hands on any of the big dogs in Chen taiji. Anyways, if this idea is still floated in Aunkai circles, I'd love to hear the logic behind it.
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Old 03-14-2011, 12:35 AM   #81
Mike Sigman
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Re: Silk reeling

Quote:
Jon Marshall wrote: View Post
On that note, I wonder if anyone can shed any light on the following quote from Akuzawa (who's highly respected exercises I have no experience of, and are, I think most people would agree, less elegant than silk-reeling):
IIRC we discussed that on AJ when it was published, but the general point was more that Akuzawa thinks his approach is more effective than softer, etc., approaches, including reeling silk... or that's the implication in the article. I don't think Akuzawa has any experience with the hard-core fighters from various Chinese styles, so I think he's just making a general statement/opinion; not meant to be trivializing. I.e., it's an opinion that could potentially make a good discussion about whether a 'hard' approach is better than a 'soft' approach.

2 cents.

Mike Sigman
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Old 03-18-2011, 05:53 PM   #82
Jon Marshall
Dojo: Bath Aikido Society
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Re: Silk reeling

Ha, I might have guessed that the quoted comment had already been discussed somewhere online. Hopefully they'll be an Aunkai UK at some point and I will get a chance to compare the differences myself.

On the point of silk-reeling not being a key feature of aikido movement, surely it's relevant if, as uke, you decide to give a bit more resistance. Mike, I think you mentioned looking for it in the wrist exercises, so if an uke is competent silk-reeler, wouldn't it be all but automatic for them to relax and extend out of an attempted technique with a silk-reeling movement? After all, uke-ing is aikido too. Maybe they'd go back to "pulling-silk" immediately afterwards - an interesting distinction. Anyway, it's something that, at the risk of being perceived as awkward (again), I shall experiment with.

Regards,
Jon
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Old 03-30-2011, 12:24 PM   #83
John Brockington
Dojo: Retsushinkan/Birmingham, AL
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Re: Silk reeling

Just wanted to point out something in the seminar notice that Thomas Campbell (OP) posted, which I don't think anyone has commented on, but may be of interest to those who don't think SRE can be helpful for aikido practice:

(quote)
"In the second session, held on July 31st 2011, instructed by Master Li Lairen, a small number of movements from Chen style Taijiquan forms will be taught and corrected in detail, including the silk reeling actions essential to those movements. Students will then work with a partner and be taught how to effectively apply those movements martially, including sparring, self-defense and joint locking (qin na). Although the second session builds upon what is learned in the first, students may attend either one of the two sessions or both."

For anyone who hasn't seen or done some qin na, the similarities to many of the joint locks/techiques in aikido are fairly evident. So continuity in the spectrum of training from SRE----> qin na ----> aikido, or maybe better yet SRE---> qin na <---> aikido is worth exploring.

Standard disclaimer IMHO.

John
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Old 03-30-2011, 12:31 PM   #84
John Brockington
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Re: Silk reeling

Correction- that seminar quote was from post #51 (author Thomas Campbell), not OP. Sorry, got distracted.

John
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