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Old 05-25-2002, 02:25 PM   #1
aikido_fudoshin
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Multiple Martial Arts

Im curious to know how training in Aikido and other martial arts at the same time works out with some of you. Does it hinder or enhance your performance in either training session? Since certain movements have to be ingrained into your psyche to create an instinctive reaction in all MA's I would assume that this could hinder your development by causing some confusion on when to do what. It would be interesting to see what would happen if you countered uke with a blow to the head .
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Old 05-25-2002, 07:18 PM   #2
Jim23
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Re: Multiple Martial Arts

Quote:
Originally posted by aikido_fudoshin
Im curious to know how training in Aikido and other martial arts at the same time works out with some of you. Does it hinder or enhance your performance in either training session? Since certain movements have to be ingrained into your psyche to create an instinctive reaction in all MA's I would assume that this could hinder your development by causing some confusion on when to do what. It would be interesting to see what would happen if you countered uke with a blow to the head .
Sure, go for it. Personally, I like Indian leg wrestling. You never know what will come in handy when attacked,

http://www.stanford.edu/~brennans/feats_smbrlb.jpg

Jim23

Remember, all generalizations are false
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Old 05-25-2002, 07:23 PM   #3
SeiserL
 
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IMHO, the trick is to not try to integrate them, but learn them as two separate subjects. Let yourself gain some level of proficiency before they will start to integrate themselves.

Until again,

Lynn
Nidan Tenshinkai Aikido
Lucaylucay Kali JKD

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 05-25-2002, 08:29 PM   #4
daedalus
Dojo: Seiryukan Dojo/Illini Aikido
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I do 2 martial arts, Aikido and Tai Chi. Strangely enough, the only difference in my Aikido training is that I'm more relaxed and in my Tai Chi training I can go lower in my form.

And a counter being a strike to the head? Atemi-waza, maybe just a bit harder than you should be applying it during training. If you don't do it at my dojo, either the uke looks at you funny or sensei requests it.

Brian
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http://www.shinjinkai.org/
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Old 05-25-2002, 09:48 PM   #5
Chris Wells
 
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i would guess hinder

If your just starting both forms around the same time i would say it would hinder the person from learning as much as they could because instead of being focused on one form you will get confused because of trying to consume so much knowlege at once.

Christopher R. Wells
Capital City Aikido - Montgomery, Al
http://www.capitalcityaikido.com
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Old 06-03-2002, 04:07 PM   #6
ronmar
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You will probably always have a "base" or favourite martial art. This is likely to be the one you started in. Provided you train in this for a while before trying other things you should be able to tag parts of them onto your way of fighting, although I feel they will probably never replace your base art.
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Old 06-03-2002, 08:42 PM   #7
IrimiTom
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to daedalus: which styles of Aikido and Tai Chi do you practice?
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Old 06-06-2002, 07:33 PM   #8
Gopher Boy
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Hi everyone,


I had done a a very small ammount of Tai Chi previous to starting Aikido and am very keen to take it up again. A lot of the Tai Chi stances are wider than the Aikido ones but both seem to share the feeling of being weighted.

I think that the internal strengh that Tai Chi develops could aide in more efficient Aikido but it has been too long since I did it to judge properly. I would certainly like that to be the case as Tai Chi is a wonderful practice, both as a MA and for relaxation.

I would be very interested to hear about experiences combining the two or training simultaneously as I am looking around for a school at the moment.


thanks,

Phill.
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Old 06-06-2002, 08:53 PM   #9
Chris Wells
 
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jkd

I have studied jeet kune do for three years before starting aikido. I think it is much easier for me to learn aikido since it is completely different from JKD. There is no way to get the moves mixed up because their nothing alike.

But this is just my small opinion

Christopher R. Wells
Capital City Aikido - Montgomery, Al
http://www.capitalcityaikido.com
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Old 06-07-2002, 12:06 PM   #10
AtomicGrooves
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I'm confused

Quote:
Originally posted by SeiserL
IMHO, the trick is to not try to integrate them, but learn them as two separate subjects. Let yourself gain some level of proficiency before they will start to integrate themselves.

Until again,

Lynn
Nidan Tenshinkai Aikido
Lucaylucay Kali JKD

Hey Lynn, I tend to agree with you on that one. since I'm new to Aikido I couldn't imagine trying to learn something else at the same time. But maybe it's easier for others who have studied other MA prior. I get it would be real confusing for say... and Akidoka to start taking Juijitsu. Wouldn't there be all kinds of confusion going on? speaking just for me I'd rather keep trying to learn as much as I can in one art maybe after I get a little skill then maybe....
But I'm curious though. For those of you who have integrated your different styles with Aikido, what is that experience like? How effective is it? Just curious.

-Atomic

The secret of life is one!-CitySlickers
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Old 06-07-2002, 01:58 PM   #11
Bruce Baker
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Mixed vegetables

What really gets me going on a rant is the variety of martial arts that most teachers try, or investigate while they are teaching one particular style to students.

Eventually, when you have a good teacher who is secure in their own martial arts, you will be told to study other martial arts as you acquire talent or proficiency for whatever you are studying. When that happens, then you begin to see the mixed bag of vegetables, or giant jig-saw puzzle that has become the world of martial arts.

Some types of cross training will hinder other types of training, but if you firmly base yourself with enough of a foundation, whether you have accomplished full profiency or not, you little voice in your head will always be correcting you when you stray into techniques that don't work for you.

That is the rub of incorporating different styles, as it is the benefit of cross training, you must always take into your arsenal things that work for you, while being aware of techniques you don't use.

I have already been booted out of Tae Kwon Do for decided my head was the number one target on the hit parade? (Basically, I told the Junior Olympic Black belt to put his headgear on, but the teacher and he insisted not to. So when I neutralized all of his techniques and slapped his face after five minutes, it was interpreted as a punch and he sat down and cried, to which his mother ranted and raved at the teacher, who worked with me in the Boat Repair Shop. End of Tae Kwon Do.) Sometimes teachers don't always see eye to eye on what is safe sparring and what is not ... go figure.

Any fool can hurt another person, by accident or on purpose, but to completely neutralize a person's attack, leave not injury, create no permanent injury to the body when overcoming an opponent ... now there is a life time case study in martial arts!

So, as advice for learning about other arts than Aikido, while studying Aikido?

I say, you should learn another striking or grappling art before coming to Aikido to really appreciate what Aikido is, and how it works.

Many people get stuck in the one study mode, and really don't appreciate how much of an opening Aikido gives to all the other arts you might study? Yes there is a great depth to many of the Japanese Budo arts, but they were not formed in a single lifetime from a single source. Just as living creatures adapt and change, so too has the inclusivness of techniques from other fighting arts been adopted by many of the Japanese arts.

Don't try to induct things into your practice that clash, but be aware they are out there to be learned at any time you become ready to learn them. With that thought in mind, you will always be in the right place at the right time, learning the right thing the right way.

That is the secret to all crosstraining.

Whether or not you are ready to take them into your arsenal, to know what they are, that they will be there when you are ready, and techniques will become your personal property when it is time should be the satisfying factor of Cross training, or Cross studying other martial arts.

But don't forget to put as much effort into your present study of Aikido as you do searching about.

Which reminds me, I have a couple of new John Steven books I haven't read yet.
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Old 06-07-2002, 02:07 PM   #12
Bruce Baker
Dojo: LBI Aikikai/LBI ,NJ
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Mixed vegetables

What really gets me going on a rant is the variety of martial arts that most teachers try, or investigate while they are teaching one particular style to students.

Eventually, when you have a good teacher who is secure in their own martial arts, you will be told to study other martial arts as you acquire talent or proficiency for whatever you are studying. When that happens, then you begin to see the mixed bag of vegetables, or giant jig-saw puzzle that has become the world of martial arts.

Some types of cross training will hinder other types of training, but if you firmly base yourself with enough of a foundation, whether you have accomplished full profiency or not, you little voice in your head will always be correcting you when you stray into techniques that don't work for you.

That is the rub of incorporating different styles as the benefit of cross training, you must always take into your arsenal things that work for you, while being aware of techniques you don't use.

I have already been booted out of my buddy's Tae Kwon Do because his student decided my head was the number one target on the hit parade? (Basically, I told the Junior Olympic Black belt to put his headgear on, because I was afraid to make contact, but the teacher and student refused the headgear option. So ... when I neutralized all of his striking techniques and slapped his face after five minutes tour around the mat, my slap was interpreted as a punch and he sat down and cried ... to which, his mother ranted and raved at the teacher. The techer, who worked with me in the Boat Repair Shop had never been ranted on, as the ladies son was the perfect medalist and son, so ... End of Tae Kwon Do.) Sometimes teachers don't always see eye to eye on what is safe for sparring and what is not ... go figure.

Any fool can hurt another person, by accident or on purpose, but to completely neutralize a person's attack, leave no injury, create no permanent injury to the body when overcoming an opponent ... now there is a life time study in martial arts!

So, as advice for learning about other arts than Aikido, while you are studying Aikido?

I say, you should learn another striking or grappling art before coming to Aikido to really appreciate what Aikido is, and how it works.

Many people get stuck in the one study mode, and really don't appreciate how much of an opening Aikido gives to all the other arts you might study? Yes there is a great depth to many of the Japanese Budo arts, but they were not formed in a single lifetime from a single source. Just as living creatures adapt and change, so too has the inclusivness of techniques from other fighting arts been adopted by many of the Japanese arts.

Don't try to induct things into your practice that clash, but be aware they are out there to be learned at any time you become ready to learn them. With that thought in mind, you will always be in the right place at the right time, learning the right thing the right way.

That is the secret to all crosstraining.

Don't force it to happen, let it happen.

Whether or not you are ready to take them into your arsenal, to know what they are, that they will be there when you are ready, and techniques will become your personal property when it is time should be the satisfying factor of Cross training, or Cross studying other martial arts.

But don't forget to put as much effort into your present study of Aikido as you do searching about.

Which reminds me, I have a couple of new John Stevens books I haven't read yet.

(He will be in PA shortly, and I should get caught up before I see him.)
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Old 06-07-2002, 06:06 PM   #13
deepsoup
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Re: Mixed vegetables

Quote:
Originally posted by Bruce Baker
I have already been booted out of my buddy's Tae Kwon Do because his student decided my head was the number one target on the hit parade? (Basically, I told the Junior Olympic Black belt to put his headgear on, because I was afraid to make contact, but the teacher and student refused the headgear option. So ... when I neutralized all of his striking techniques and slapped his face after five minutes tour around the mat, my slap was interpreted as a punch and he sat down and cried ... to which, his mother ranted and raved at the teacher. The techer, who worked with me in the Boat Repair Shop had never been ranted on, as the ladies son was the perfect medalist and son, so ... End of Tae Kwon Do.) Sometimes teachers don't always see eye to eye on what is safe for sparring and what is not ... go figure.
Sheesh, what is the world coming to when a large muscular gnarly adult can't make a young lad cry for his mother without people accusing him of being some kind of a bully or something?

Sean
x

ps: For the benefit of anyone who doesn't 'get' irony. Yes, that was indeed sarcasm. Sorry, couldn't resist. I'll get me coat.
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Old 06-07-2002, 06:23 PM   #14
Andy
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Re: Re: Mixed vegetables

Quote:
Originally posted by deepsoup
Sheesh, what is the world coming to when a large muscular gnarly adult can't make a young lad cry for his mother without people accusing him of being some kind of a bully or something?
Careful, Sean. Or Bruce will threaten you with implied physical violence like he did to me in this post.
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Old 06-07-2002, 09:36 PM   #15
PeterR
 
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Re: I'm confused

Quote:
Originally posted by AtomicGrooves
I get it would be real confusing for say... and Akidoka to start taking Juijitsu. Wouldn't there be all kinds of confusion going on?
Well some of us consider Aikido to be a form of Jujutsu so there comes a point where a little bit of exploration goes a long way. Still cross-training too early does cause the confusion you are talking about.



Bad Sean Bad - baiting must be subtle.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 06-08-2002, 05:58 PM   #16
Jim23
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Re: Mixed vegetables

Quote:
Originally posted by Bruce Baker

So ... when I neutralized all of his striking techniques and slapped his face after five minutes tour around the mat, my slap was interpreted as a punch and he sat down and cried ...

Any fool can hurt another person
Why were you sparring with this kid anyway, didn't you say that you were a large man, to be feared by all who meet you? And you slapped him and made him cry, then you brag about it?

I would have kicked you out too ... literally. Oh, I'd use my instep.

Jim23

Remember, all generalizations are false
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Old 06-08-2002, 06:54 PM   #17
Chris Wells
 
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hehe

Heyyyyyyyyyy!

Just because im 6'4 doesnt mean i cant sparr with the midgets. lol


_a little dry humor

Christopher R. Wells
Capital City Aikido - Montgomery, Al
http://www.capitalcityaikido.com
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