Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Techniques

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-26-2002, 04:08 AM   #51
sanskara
 
sanskara's Avatar
Location: Austin, TX
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 52
United_States
Offline
There's no doubt about it, a grappler can be a formidable opponent.

On the other hand, I once witnessed a fight in the back alley behind a bar between a brown belt in Gracie Jiujitsu and a pot-smoking, out-of-shape hippie, who later told me he'd never been in a serious altercation before.

To everyone's suprise, he beat the Hell out of the trained grappler, to the point where other students from the Dojo had to jump in and intercede. I had also trained a bit at that same Gracie Dojo and can vouch for the brown belt's ability on the mat, but thought the guy deserved to get his clock cleaned, and so sat back and watched the magic unfold--he got no help from me that night.

The fight did go to the ground (predictably enough) but in this one encounter, at least, bjj did not give the grappler the upperhand on asphalt. It was embarrassing for the trained martial artist, especially since there was no significant discrepancy in size or weight.

I guess the moral of the story is that sometimes fighting Spirit wins out over technique. What does this have to do with Aikido? Not much. But it just goes to show 'ya: you can't make too many hard and fast rules or generalizations; reality can be the harshest of teachers, and just may suprise you at the wost time possible.

Last edited by sanskara : 08-26-2002 at 01:59 PM.

Regards,
James Bostwick
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2002, 06:16 AM   #52
Guest5678
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 135
Offline
Quote:
paul watt (paw) wrote:
Mongo,

Are you uppercutting prior to the shot or as the shot is beginning (wrestler has changed levels, is starting penetration step)?

In either case, or even if the wrestler has grabbed a leg (or two) I can't get uppercuts to work....maybe my timing is poor?

Regards,

Paul
Paul,

When he starts the penetration step, his head starts down for the shoot in, place one palm on his forehead (his arms are going for the legs) no need to push yet as he's coming in and will do that for you, your other palm goes under his chin. Push up and back..... be prepared for him to try and twist out of it, but by then you should have the lead... try it slow as it can have a very bad affect on your training partners neck.... control the head...

-Mongo
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2002, 05:43 PM   #53
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,319
Japan
Offline
Cool - you know of course Mongo that in Aikido (specifically Shodokan) that is referred to as shomen-ate. In my opinion, the most effective technique in our arsenal. Kenji Tomiki placed it in first place in his Junanahon - I think for the same reason.
Quote:
Daniel Pokorny (Mongo) wrote:
When he starts the penetration step, his head starts down for the shoot in, place one palm on his forehead (his arms are going for the legs) no need to push yet as he's coming in and will do that for you, your other palm goes under his chin. Push up and back..... be prepared for him to try and twist out of it, but by then you should have the lead... try it slow as it can have a very bad affect on your training partners neck.... control the head...

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2002, 07:43 AM   #54
Guest5678
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 135
Offline
Quote:
Peter Rehse (PeterR) wrote:
Cool - you know of course Mongo that in Aikido (specifically Shodokan) that is referred to as shomen-ate. In my opinion, the most effective technique in our arsenal. Kenji Tomiki placed it in first place in his Junanahon - I think for the same reason.
Peter,

I agree totally! What I was describing in the situation of someone shooting in can also be executed real smooth if your good at reading their movements. I trained with a Nebraska wrestler that could slip that on you so quick that it took a minute for your mind to register why exactly you were now looking at the ceiling.....

We had a great coach though! He put a sign on the ceiling facing down that read:

"If you can read this sign, your butt is in real trouble!"

Note that I have the words memorized! HA!

-Mongo
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2002, 10:09 AM   #55
Roy Dean
 
Roy Dean's Avatar
Dojo: Roy Dean Academy
Location: Palm Desert, California
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 163
United_States
Offline
Aikido is a grappling method, just like Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu or wrestling, but with an emphasis on a different range of combat and utilizing a different training method. One grappling method can defeat another, it happens all the time, but the best way to swing the odds in your favor is to learn the attacks of the other system, and practice high percentage defenses.

In the case of a wrestler, learning how to sprawl and defend a single or double leg takedown is crucial. If this can be done, you've eliminated their game, and now you can begin to work yours.

I began a thread on the similarities between BJJ and Aikido on the general forum. You may find it of interest.

Good training to you,

Roy

Discover Who You Are

www.roydean.tv
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2002, 06:48 PM   #56
Kevin Leavitt
 
Kevin Leavitt's Avatar
Dojo: Team Combat USA
Location: Olympia, Washington
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,376
United_States
Offline
I find kicking wrestlers works well since they typically have trained for sport and will shoot without regard for any type of atemi. Since they are usually going below waist level and do not move in a guarded position, they are at the perfect level to be kicked.

I agree Roy, it is all there in Aikido, just depends on how you practice it.

Occassionally I will get with a few fellow students and we will mixed up our atemi in freestyle type sparring and play with the possibilities.

I also agree, if you want to learn to defeat a stylist, study their style. Gen Patton Defeated Rommell because he read his book and studied him very closely.

The best style to have to fight is no style. Bruce Lee believed this.

The U.S. Army prides itself on having established doctrine or principles, but encourages it's leader to take much artistic liberties and freedoms at implementing it. Most of the critiques that have come from our opponents has been that is the single most frustrating thing at trying to strategize against the U.S. Army....the fact that they do not follow their own rules. Follow principles-Yes, tactics-No.

Aikido is designed to teach us certain principles that O'Sensei thought was important based on his philosophy and that helped him achieve his personal peace and enlightment. It was not to develop the ultimate grappler or fighter.

Take the principles that he is teaching through his students, and apply them as you need to reach your own goals!

  Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2002, 12:03 AM   #57
Miguel Cuevas
Dojo: Vineland Aikikia
Location: New Jersey, U.S.A.
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 6
Offline
Great thread, you guys. Very interesting stuff. I've been studying aikido for about 6 months, and about 2 months ago, I began cross training in judo, with my sensei's blessing. My sesei in aikido practiced judo for 22 some years before he began studying aikdo and he always incorporates many ideas from judo into class. Nothing he could have told me could have prepared me for judo randori.

The only thing I remember from my first judo experience was that everything was happening SO fast in randori. In a blink of an eye, I would be sprawled out on my back with someone on the side yelling out, "ippon"! After a couple of classes, I started to catch on, and I have discovered something that my sensei always preaches...simply to RELAX! It's so easy to get caught up in a tug of war with a grappler, especially in the heat of the moment, with fear and adreneline and everything else runinning through your mind and body.

I told myself that I would just go to one judo class. You know, to check it out. Now, I'm addicted to judo randori just as I'm addicted to aikido's relaxing atmosphere and effortless techniques. It's just so damn fun! I cannot recommend cross training in another grappling martial art like judo enough. Aside from a great workout (I've lost 17 lbs of fat in 2 months), you'll catch a glimpse of what a heated struggle, both standing and on the ground, is really like. As my aikido sensei told me before I began attending judo classes,"Judo makes your aikido better, and aikido makes your judo better." Plus, if you get thrown as often as I do, at least your ukemi will get better very quickly!



Oh, and for the record, I beleive aikido is the superior martial art, but judo has the edge in the method of training. Just my honest opinion.

"The true way of the Martial Arts is to train so that these skills are useful at any time, and to teach these skills so that they will be useful in all things."
-Shinmen Musashi
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2002, 07:22 AM   #58
L. Camejo
 
L. Camejo's Avatar
Dojo: Ontario Martial Arts
Location: Mississauga, Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,423
Canada
Offline
Ju no ri on steroids :)

Quote:
Miguel Cuevas wrote:
Oh, and for the record, I beleive aikido is the superior martial art, but judo has the edge in the method of training. Just my honest opinion.
I agree with you mostly Miguel. If you ever get the chance to train at a Shodokan Aikido dojo however, you will see the beauty of Aikido taught in a training method that is very similar to that used in Judo, including randori (with and without tanto) with full resistance).

On another note, it's interesting to notice how we are seeing the similarities between arts like Aikido and BJJ and Judo. In fact, some schools see aiki no ri (the aiki principle) as merely an extension of ju no ri (the principle of suppleness). It is believed that the principle of ju no ri is one of the common foundations of Judo and Aikido.

That is why relaxing always helps. When we are relaxed we become more supple (ju), therefore making it easier to blend (aiki).

I really believe that Aikido and Judo are complementary to each other and are merely different parts of the same principle. Judo has the ne waza and katame waza, aikido has the atemi waza and kanseteu waza. Together you have an almost unbeatable combination.

Just my 2 cents

L.C.

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
http://www.tntaikido.org
http://www.mushinkan.ca
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2002, 02:43 PM   #59
Sean Moffatt
Dojo: Tidewater Aikikai
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 12
Offline
All things being equal, if you are up against somebody who knows how to grapple, don't fight his fight. Poke him in the eye. Bite his nose real hard. Stick your entire hand in his mouth and tickle the back of his throat (that should get his attention). Kick him in the b**ls (is balls ok to say? anyways) Do anything to make him want to get the hell away from you. Here's a good one: Self-induced vomiting. Hey, grapplers need to stay close to grapple, make him get away. Have you ever seen how a monkey fights? (yuck) That works too.

Sean

You know you are famous when you have your own action figure.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2002, 05:48 AM   #60
paw
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 768
Offline
Sean,
Quote:
if you are up against somebody who knows how to grapple,
Roy pointed out earlier that aikido is a grappling method
Quote:
Poke him in the eye. Bite his nose real hard. Stick your entire hand in his mouth and tickle the back of his throat (that should get his attention). Kick him in the b**ls (is balls ok to say?
Finger/thumb locks might get you out of nikkyo, but I wouldn't count on it. In my experience, "foul tactics" (small joint locks/breaks, eye gouges, biting, pinching, etc...) are too often used as a substitute to solid training in basic technique, which in this case would be establishing a dominant position in the clinch or escaping from a bad position on the ground.

Regards,

Paul
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2002, 08:27 AM   #61
Sean Moffatt
Dojo: Tidewater Aikikai
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 12
Offline
Talking

Quote:
paul watt (paw) wrote:
Sean,



Roy pointed out earlier that aikido is a grappling method



Finger/thumb locks might get you out of nikkyo, but I wouldn't count on it. In my experience, "foul tactics" (small joint locks/breaks, eye gouges, biting, pinching, etc...) are too often used as a substitute to solid training in basic technique, which in this case would be establishing a dominant position in the clinch or escaping from a bad position on the ground.

Regards,

Paul
Paul,

I know all this. But what one persons "foul tactics" is another persons life saving techniques. I'm sure you can show me a dozen jujitsu techniques that will establish the dominant position. But I'm talking about not fighting your fight. This is not a duel or a match, this is survival. Think of the foul tactics as atemi waza in order to distract the attacker. O'Sensei once commented, "In a fight, Aikido is 70% Atemi, 30% technique."

But then again, you are correct to say that basic technique must be trained extensively.

Sean

You know you are famous when you have your own action figure.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2002, 09:05 AM   #62
paw
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 768
Offline
Sean,
Quote:
But I'm talking about not fighting your fight.
I understand. And I agree with Roy. Not fighting the other person's fight is having the knowledge and ability to negate their style. For example, being able to sprawl against a wrestler to prevent the takedown (and the subsequent ground fight).
Quote:
But what one persons "foul tactics" is another persons life saving techniques. ... This is not a duel or a match, this is survival.
I'm well aware of the context. However, there's a thread wherein a fellow was struck with a hatchet twice in the head, ultimately the assilant with the hatchet was killed.

I've heard law enforcement officers talk about people taking tens of full-force knees to the groin, or shots to the neck, or multiple stab wounds from a knife, or multiple rounds from a firearm and they continue to attack in life and death situations.

Regardless of the context (training, sport, competion, self-defense, etc...) the principles and basic techniques to escape from a bad position on the ground remain the same. I've met far too many people who, instead of training basic techniques, simply say "I'll just bite, or pinch, or pull hair, or gouge an eye or ...." And that might work, but I wouldn't count on it. That's my point.

The second thing to consider (and I'll put this in aikido terms) is this: do you really want to try and bite, eye gouge, etc... with a shihan .... what if the shihan decides to bite and eye gouge back?

Regards,

Paul
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2002, 10:11 AM   #63
Sean Moffatt
Dojo: Tidewater Aikikai
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 12
Offline
When you refer to shihan, you mean master right? A master technician or martial artist. Martial Arts and it's participants must have coined the phrase, "What if?" Well "What If" I hold up my Ultra-Man star followed with "Rocket-Punch". At least against the "Shihan", I have a height advantage. Poor poor shihan. He or she must be really down on their luck to resort to petty mugging. The problem with these forum strings sometimes is that people are asking questions only they can really answer. For instance, How do you defend against a wrestler or grappler? Easy, pick a fight with one and find out. All the other advice on this forum, including mine, is finely critiqued crap. If you're a sceptic, please stopping asking someones opinion you don't even know. Find out for yourself. Go to a grappling school or an aikido school and figure it out yourself. And those of you out there who have given him your "sage advice". Tell him to find out for themselves. Talking about it and doing it are two different things. One of the great training comments I have been told is "Shut up and train!"

You know you are famous when you have your own action figure.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2002, 12:58 PM   #64
Roy Dean
 
Roy Dean's Avatar
Dojo: Roy Dean Academy
Location: Palm Desert, California
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 163
United_States
Offline
The dirty stuff (eye gouging, biting, etc) can be very effective, IF you have a solid foundation to implement these techniques from. My BJJ instructor has a "holy trinity" of street fighting tactics for the ground, including the eye gouge, nipple bite, and groin grab, and a flow drill for linking these techniques together. When you combine positional dominance with those tactics, even against an opponent trying to do the same dirty tricks, there is no contest. He's trained and tested these methods against live opponents. It is frightening how effective they can be.

"Shut up and train" is a great motto. Words can be debated. Experience cannot!

Generally, I find Aikido techniques (not principles) to be ineffective on the ground. Although i can hit techniques such as kotegaishi occasionally, they are very low percentage moves, and not designed for the ground.

Aikido techniques are designed for their specific range of combat (standing, moderate to close quarter spacing between opponents). Once you hit the ground, Ikkyo turns into a straight armbar, shihonage into Kimura (aka Bent armlock), etc. The techniques are different, as well as their entries, but once learned, the similarities are enormous.

"In fact, some schools see aiki no ri (the aiki principle) as merely an extension of ju no ri (the principle of suppleness). It is believed that the principle of ju no ri is one of the common foundations of Judo and Aikido."

I think this is a brilliant comment. I believe aiki to be idealized ju, or yielding at maximum efficiency. In an actual confrontation, the windows or opportunity for ju are relatively small (of course as you train, your perception of these windows also shifts and they seem larger, whether through visual or tactile stimuli). The windows of opportunity for aiki are even smaller, but they do exist. Perhaps this is why Kano said something akin to aikido being ideal judo after visiting O'Sensei's dojo.

Roy

Discover Who You Are

www.roydean.tv
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2002, 12:22 PM   #65
Jermaine Alley
Dojo: Aikido Of Richmond
Location: Richmond, VA
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 63
Offline
Takemasu Aiki

Hey,

I think that you should learn as much about Aikido as you can right now. I am not sure what level of training that you are in, but as your training and experience improves, you will understand how you can make your techniques work on anyone at any time.

I try to incorporate newaza (grappling techniques) in with my aikido techniques when i have the time. The important point to remember about grapplers is that they (if they are the attackers) have to extend themselves in some way, to make what they are doing work. In other words, by reaching out, by slumping for a tackle, by preparing for a sweep...they have to off balance themselves so that they can capture you or bring you into their center.

Aikido teaches me to not allow someone to bring my center into theirs. Take the opportunity, if you can, to make your attacker commit, or over-commit, and then take advantage of that.

I will tackle the kicking side of this later..gotta keep it short...have fun..

jermaine
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2002, 02:09 PM   #66
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Hmm, my wrestling friends don't extend themselves when shooting. My shotokan friends don't extend themselves when punching or kicking. I myself have been doing aikido too long...I have to watch *I* don't extend when attacking now...

I actually heard some aikido folk say an attacker is automatically "off-balance" just by virtue of attacking...***don't you believe it, not for a second!***

Ron (you must unbalance uke at the moment of contact) Tisdale

Oh, and the person with the dominant position is the one who will be able to use "dirty tricks". No position, no tricks. At least not giving them...recieving...maybe.

Last edited by Ron Tisdale : 11-07-2002 at 02:23 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2002, 04:27 PM   #67
ronmar
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 66
Offline
dirty tricks etc

Quote:
All things being equal, if you are up against somebody who knows how to grapple, don't fight his fight. Poke him in the eye. Bite his nose real hard. Stick your entire hand in his mouth and tickle the back of his throat (that should get his attention). Kick him in the b**ls (is balls ok to say? anyways) Do anything to make him want to get the hell away from you. Here's a good one: Self-induced vomiting. Hey, grapplers need to stay close to grapple, make him get away. Have you ever seen how a monkey fights? (yuck) That works too.
This is the eternal answer you get when you ask a person who doesn't understand grappling what they would do in a grappling situation.

Firstly, if they are a grappler and you are not, they will most likely have control over you on the ground. This will limit your options. Secondly, if you do decide to bite or go for eyes, you will find the grappler doing exactly the same to you, but from a dominant position, with the ability to control your movements, and probably with greater strength, endurance, and pain tolerance gained from their grappling experience.

Thirdly, do you really want to escalate the conflict into something really nasty. If you bite them while they are armlocking or strangling you then you will likely get a broken arm or worse.

I don't think this is suitable advice for a bit of high school bullying or whatever started this thread.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2002, 09:11 PM   #68
aikido_fudoshin
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 97
Offline
I would just like to say that a grappler should never be able to get a proficient Aikidoka on the ground or grab hold of them for that matter (unless its unexpected). Nobody is going to let someone else walk up to them and put them in a head lock. In a "real" situation grappling is not the best choice for self defence. Wrestlers will mostly try and unbalance you by taking out your legs. The big move is that double leg take down. Sorry doesnt work. Although its quick, a simple knee to the face or grab his head, spring your legs back, and smash his face into the ground. Sure its good for the sport where there are rules, and may be a decent attack against the unknowledgable, but do you really want to grab someone and role around on the ground as self defense? In a real situation your probably going to face your attackers friends aswell.

In Aikido we practice maai and continually practice moving out of the way of the attack whether it be through turning, entering, etc. I see this as the most effective way to learning self defence especially when there is so many ways in which it can be improvised and applied. Id much rather want to move out of the way of an attack, keep my distance, and leave an opening or chance to escape when there are friends around.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2002, 10:43 PM   #69
sanosuke
Dojo: Seigi Dojo
Location: Jakarta
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 247
Indonesia
Offline
Quote:
In Aikido we practice maai and continually practice moving out of the way of the attack whether it be through turning, entering, etc. I see this as the most effective way to learning self defence especially when there is so many ways in which it can be improvised and applied. Id much rather want to move out of the way of an attack, keep my distance, and leave an opening or chance to escape when there are friends around.
Definitely agree, the answer is always the same by the way, maai...timing....maai...timing...
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2002, 04:33 AM   #70
paw
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 768
Offline
Quote:
I would just like to say that a grappler should never be able to get a proficient Aikidoka on the ground or grab hold of them for that matter (unless its unexpected).
The same thing is said by boxers, thai boxers, kickboxers, karate folks, ad nauseum.... I've never seen a grappler not get a hold of someone and take them to the ground unless the other person had a solid base in grappling.

But don't take my word for it. Canada is home to some fine wrestlers and judoka. And if I'm not mistaken, Igor Yakamov is in Canada as well (sombo). Test it out and see what happens.

The whole "but who wants to roll around on the ground for self-defense?" is a straw man in my mind. Who wants to be in a self-defense situation to begin with?

Regards,

Paul
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2002, 10:02 AM   #71
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Hi Paul,

While I don't agree with the straw man statement, I am surprised that some still don't acknowledge the strengths of certain other sports/arts. Its quite distressing actually. That kind of close mindedness can be very dangerous. As can making assumptions based on little or no experience. You're right, people who grapple well have shown time and again that they can close the distance, and effectively at that.

As for straw men, as far as self defense goes, I've found that maintaining a stable, mobile base is the most effective strategy, and ground work is definatley the last resort. But if you find yourself there, its best to know what to do...

Ron Tisdale

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2002, 02:31 PM   #72
ronmar
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 66
Offline
Quote:
The big move is that double leg take down. Sorry doesnt work. Although its quick, a simple knee to the face or grab his head, spring your legs back, and smash his face into the ground.
How can you still believe this stuff? If professional fighters in UFC etc, who train full time and with full contact cannot always defend against a leg takedown, what makes you think you can?

Aikido needs to put fighters into MMA events for a reality check.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2002, 12:10 PM   #73
MattRice
Dojo: Baltimore Aikido
Location: Maryland
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 123
Offline
Quote:
Ron Marshall (ronmar) wrote:
Aikido needs to put fighters into MMA events for a reality check.
Mixed Martial Arts/UFC is not reality, and further, Aikido is not an entity or person that can do this. Aikido (to my understanding) was not developed to engage in organized competition, with rules and rings etc. For instance, you CANNOT spear someone in the hollow of the neck above the breastbone in a UFC match. This atemi is practiced (albeit w/o contact) in our dojo regularly.

It's one thing to theorize about combat with other fighting styles, it's another thing entirely to complain about Aikido not being what you think it should be. You have a problem with Aikido training methods. I would suggest that this problem is yours to solve, not Aikido's. (there's that entity again...)
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2002, 04:54 AM   #74
paw
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 768
Offline
to sum up.....

So, Bryan contends that double legs don't work. Ron counters with the UFC, one specific mixed martial art event, where double legs are successfully performed on highly trained, resisting opponents. Matt claims this isn't "real" and as a counter example writes:
Quote:
For instance, you CANNOT spear someone in the hollow of the neck above the breastbone in a UFC match. This atemi is practiced (albeit w/o contact) in our dojo regularly.
Note: "w/o contact". In other words, a simulated attack.

sim·u·la·tion --- noun ---

An imitation; a sham.

the act of pretending [syn: pretense, pretence, pretending, feigning]

So, what's "real" and who's theorizing?


[edited for spelling]
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2002, 09:01 AM   #75
MattRice
Dojo: Baltimore Aikido
Location: Maryland
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 123
Offline
Didn't claim that anything was real. Certainly I'm not poking my training partners in the trachea for real.

My point is, that to my understanding the founder of Aikido did not intend for us to use the art for competition. As such, some parts of Aikido would not be suitable for said competition, as they would break the rules.

What I did say regarding reality, is that UFC ain't it. That is, of course my opinion. In the ring, the dudes buddy can't come running out of the bar with a baseball bat while I'm going for my arm bar.
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:02 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2018 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2018 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate