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Old 01-28-2011, 01:56 PM   #201
Rob Watson
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

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Hunter Lonsberry wrote: View Post
Dan,

It could be of course used in golf, but that doesn't mean golfers are already using IS. I saw Ark pick up a golf club for the first time in 10 years and hit 350 yards without using a driver.

Might not be a bad gig to run some golf clinics!
They would be lined up around the block if that 350 yard shot actually went anywhere near the expected target. Probably pay more than $100 for a 1 hour 'clinic'- with plenty of repeat business.

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
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Old 01-28-2011, 02:18 PM   #202
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

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Yes. What is the physical difference between the type of physical conditioning you are offering, and what someone could get from the average sports coach?
Well Chris I don't claim to know all the different ways sport coaches teach so I would not speak for them. You apparently don't know a single way IP people train. So I would offer that I teach a different way to use the body, from feet to spine to dantian to hands which produces different results from I anything I ever got from lifting and cardio, and one which I have yet to see one of your crowd copy, as their way to training usually is antithetical to this- usually evident at a touch. Which is what Jon tried to point out to you. It is a different way to organize and move your body that is demonstrable...with practical results you can feel.

Note* The tricks and magic and huckster routine you threw my way is way off the mark, Chris, though I am sure both camps found the suggestion amusing. I'm not one for tricks and magic or standing rooted in a pot either. I am interested in something that produces power that translates freely at speed.
That said, I don't want to fight about it and get you angry again.
Dan

Last edited by DH : 01-28-2011 at 02:24 PM.
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Old 01-28-2011, 02:32 PM   #203
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

I'm not sure who "my crowd is", I didn't know I have one, sounds cool though.

Dan, saying that you train something differently from foot to hand etc isn't telling us anything. Lifting and cardio is a far cry from dynamic sports training.

I wasn't throwing anything in your way. I was simply saying that this is one possibility. I'm saying that I don't see anything different in what you are doing than I see in athletics. You're saying that you see a world of difference.

How can we resolve this beyond you and I swapping stories back about forth about what we've seen or think?

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Old 01-28-2011, 02:34 PM   #204
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

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How can we resolve this beyond you and I swapping stories back about forth about what we've seen or think?
I have an idea...and it's just crazy enough to work...

naaaaah! nevermind.
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Old 01-28-2011, 03:14 PM   #205
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

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Chris Hein wrote: View Post
I tired this last night. I could do it. I do however use my quads and butt muscles. Other then getting someone to touch our muscles or attaching sensors to them, I don't know how we could figure out if IP people are using less muscle when they do this. I can however achieve the same result.
A few years ago I was visiting a chiropractor for some L4,L5 issues. We started up a conversation about Aikido and Aiki and I told him we moved without tensing muscle. He said based on his doctor training that was impossible, you must tense them to some extent - he said show me. So as he was grabbing my butt muscles with both hands. I did a simple tenkan without him feeling any muscle movement at all - today he is training with me

Greg
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Old 01-28-2011, 04:39 PM   #206
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

I'd like to see Chris's shiko vid, Im definitely curious. One thing Hunter forgot to mention is that Ark does this particular demo with some one that weighs about 300lb on his back compared to his 140 lb frame or so, so the ratio should be about the same to keep things in perspective.
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Old 01-28-2011, 05:57 PM   #207
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

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Robert John wrote: View Post
I'd like to see Chris's shiko vid, Im definitely curious. One thing Hunter forgot to mention is that Ark does this particular demo with some one that weighs about 300lb on his back compared to his 140 lb frame or so, so the ratio should be about the same to keep things in perspective.
A) the video was not anyone who weighed in at 300lbs, more like 150.

B) I don't know anyone who weighs that much, so that won't happen.

You do admit there is a physical limit to the amount of weight though, correct?

What is the Max that Ark could do that shikko with? Would you guess 300 is upper limit, or 1000, at what point will his IP break down, and what is the reason that will happen?

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Old 01-28-2011, 11:27 PM   #208
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

Chris
We are all students and researchers of the arts. Why set yourself up to be so contrary. It's all good man. If you think you don't need this training ...okay then. Why go to such lengths to insinuate we are frauds or the work has no value over normal athletics. Neither the Chinese or Japanese were that stupid and ignorant. It was a big deal to them..because it is a big deal.
Anyway most people here, who finally meet, become friends as we share this research in common. We're all just bums on the budo bus.
Chill out man. Your teacher is capable, you are probably capable too, that leaves you plenty of room to be kind. If we meet, I will welcome you and maybe we can reach an understanding.
All the best
Dan.

Last edited by DH : 01-28-2011 at 11:36 PM.
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Old 01-29-2011, 04:24 AM   #209
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

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A) the video was not anyone who weighed in at 300lbs, more like 150.

B) I don't know anyone who weighs that much, so that won't happen.

You do admit there is a physical limit to the amount of weight though, correct?

What is the Max that Ark could do that shikko with? Would you guess 300 is upper limit, or 1000, at what point will his IP break down, and what is the reason that will happen?
Damn dude, I didn't say it was in that video lol.
And your eye for how much people's weigh is way off. I weigh 150, and I'm a stick The guy in the vid was some US military special forces guy that happened to be studying at the London Business School, and weighed more like 190. (I only remember because Ark asked him at one point)

Dunno what his upper limit is, but of course there is a limit. I'll simply refrain from speculating, but I'll say that the ability to move while under load is probably aided in part by specially conditioned spinal erectors (just thinking out loud here).

I'd say that the legs play a big factor in how much load can be sustained, but it's the psoas, spinal erectors and obliques that determine how well the load can be manipulated, with the force distributed across the body's fascia, ie, taking advantage of the elastic property of conditioned tissue to act as kind of a support web to bear the load
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Old 01-29-2011, 08:30 AM   #210
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

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Robert John wrote: View Post
I'd like to see Chris's shiko vid, Im definitely curious. One thing Hunter forgot to mention is that Ark does this particular demo with some one that weighs about 300lb on his back compared to his 140 lb frame or so, so the ratio should be about the same to keep things in perspective.
Yeah he seems to find the biggest guys he can for some of his demos.

Its pretty impressive too when you see some of his sub 100lbs students doing the same things to people twice their weight.
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Old 01-29-2011, 11:33 AM   #211
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

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Damn dude, I didn't say it was in that video lol.
I understand. But to get away from subjective things, I'm trying to only work with things that we can all see, together, and look at objectively.

Quote:
And your eye for how much people's weigh is way off. I weigh 150, and I'm a stick The guy in the vid was some US military special forces guy that happened to be studying at the London Business School, and weighed more like 190. (I only remember because Ark asked him at one point)
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt there. Also remember, Ark has done this many times, and practiced it quite a bit, I've tried this one time, night before last. I have no doubt that he can do this to a higher degree. But if I have no understanding of IP , why can I do it at all? Where is the difference between IP and athleticism? What quality makes the difference?

Quote:
Dunno what his upper limit is, but of course there is a limit. I'll simply refrain from speculating, but I'll say that the ability to move while under load is probably aided in part by specially conditioned spinal erectors (just thinking out loud here).
This question of maximums is very interesting to me. With the pushed into the wall test, would there be a maximum on that? Could I park my car in front of you and you could still walk away from the wall? If not why? What makes the IP break down, not allowing you to do something like that?

If you teach a powerlifter IP how much weight can he expect to add to his max? If IP can improve such things, why isn't the olympic weight lifting teams using it to improve their max?

Quote:
I'd say that the legs play a big factor in how much load can be sustained, but it's the psoas, spinal erectors and obliques that determine how well the load can be manipulated, with the force distributed across the body's fascia, ie, taking advantage of the elastic property of conditioned tissue to act as kind of a support web to bear the load
This doesn't sound far away from the answer that an athletics coach might give. The way you're describing IP, it sounds like athletics here. If it is so similar to athletics methods, why is it superior to athletics or just different? Why wouldn't any of the IP guys (major or lessor) be hired by the droves by professional athletics groups?

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Old 01-29-2011, 11:36 AM   #212
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

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Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Chris
We are all students and researchers of the arts. Why set yourself up to be so contrary. It's all good man. If you think you don't need this training ...okay then. Why go to such lengths to insinuate we are frauds or the work has no value over normal athletics. Neither the Chinese or Japanese were that stupid and ignorant. It was a big deal to them..because it is a big deal.
Anyway most people here, who finally meet, become friends as we share this research in common. We're all just bums on the budo bus.
Chill out man. Your teacher is capable, you are probably capable too, that leaves you plenty of room to be kind. If we meet, I will welcome you and maybe we can reach an understanding.
All the best
Dan.
I honestly don't know if I'm suppose to be offended, or if I should say thank you.

I'm just interested in openly talking about this stuff. Your contributions in this thread are much appreciated! I'd love to talk you into making a video.

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Old 01-29-2011, 12:26 PM   #213
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

I asked a question at the start of this thread that remains unanswered. It is not posed as a challenge but as one who lacks knowledge, so I am re-asking it.
I have done/am doing some of the basic IS exercises so have a rudimentary understanding of what folks are discussing when they discuss that half of the thread topic.
Chris, I still don't know what you mean by athletic training. In a very recent post you say " not that" to reply to someone and refer to a dynamic training. But I for one have no idea what athletic training exercises you are talking about (I asked if you meant things like Pilates or plyometrics and never got an answer) nor which sports use these methods; you want folks to "compare and contrast" but your half of the topic remains undefined.
Can you please describe the exercises used in athletics? Thank you.

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Old 01-29-2011, 02:21 PM   #214
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

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I asked a question at the start of this thread that remains unanswered. It is not posed as a challenge but as one who lacks knowledge, so I am re-asking it.
I have done/am doing some of the basic IS exercises so have a rudimentary understanding of what folks are discussing when they discuss that half of the thread topic.
Chris, I still don't know what you mean by athletic training. In a very recent post you say " not that" to reply to someone and refer to a dynamic training. But I for one have no idea what athletic training exercises you are talking about (I asked if you meant things like Pilates or plyometrics and never got an answer) nor which sports use these methods; you want folks to "compare and contrast" but your half of the topic remains undefined.
Can you please describe the exercises used in athletics? Thank you.
Janet,
Sorry I didn't answer earlier. There are lots of questions to look at. I mean all athletics training. So any sport training, or any isolated sports movements like weight lifting or what have you. If I were to pick one athletic practice, I would choose the sport of American Football.

But any areas where IP and athletics might have the same goals (moving heavy weights, dynamically using the body, explosive force etc.) why would IP be a favored method of training over common athletic training. Plyometrics, aerobics, mobility training, agility drills, are all parts of what I would call common athletics training.

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Old 01-29-2011, 02:29 PM   #215
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

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I honestly don't know if I'm suppose to be offended, or if I should say thank you.
I'm just interested in openly talking about this stuff. Your contributions in this thread are much appreciated! I'd love to talk you into making a video.
If you read it right...then go with the thanks, because I meant it to be sincere, open and positive. I like your pragmatic approach to the arts-thought I do not always agree with the outcome of your research. I just respect the hell out of the fact that you research and think. I also respect one of your teachers.
I don't do videos, but hopefully one day we can meet-if not as friends- than at least as fellow budo nuts and have a more meaningful dialogue with hands on. I hate the contention around this topic on the net caused by a small number of people when hundreds are meeting and training together and having VERY positive training experiences.

Cheers
Dan
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Old 01-29-2011, 02:42 PM   #216
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

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... why would IP be a favored method of training over common athletic training. Plyometrics, aerobics, mobility training, agility drills, are all parts of what I would call common athletics training.
Of course any number of people who are martial artists not football players have written here on aikiweb describing how it is different...by...feel and what it did for their art.
Jon just wrote in that training this way made him harder to be thrown or locked and what going back to athletic training did to him.
I have written about it a hundred times myself.
What about the hundreds of personal testimonies dismissed?
Why is Ikeda said to be changing since he started training this stuff?
Why is Gleason changing and telling just about everyone that is is the aiki he was looking for his whole career?

At some point it doesn't make sense to dismiss it because YOU don't understand it. Were it a factual study, a first step in considering a phenomenon would be examining the difference by feel, then at least considering the sheer number of unrelated people reporting the same or similar phenomena from a different range of teachers talking about similar things.

To dismiss that does sound a bit insincere for a researcher like yourself, Chris. I honestly find that part of it a bit confusing. I searched it out BECAUSE of that testimony and witness by so many people of ....a different feel, and I was damn glad I did. The comments about pusing my car into you and such is a bit ridiculous as well. You already know the answer so why ask and insincere question like that.
Just say'n
Dan

Last edited by DH : 01-29-2011 at 02:48 PM.
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Old 01-29-2011, 02:43 PM   #217
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Question Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

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Greg Steckel wrote: View Post
Maybe not as hi tech as what you are showing here, but the Wii board has an exercise application that shows weight distribution and center of balance.

Greg
Wii board - excellent idea, will try to get my hands On one and see what it can do. Now for some expert subjects to test downunder...

Daniel James, Brisbane Aikido Republic: AikiPhysics, Aikido Brisbane news,
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Old 01-29-2011, 04:10 PM   #218
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

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The comments about pusing my car into you and such is a bit ridiculous as well. You already know the answer so why ask and insincere question like that.
Just say'n
Dan
That question was very sincere. If you can't do such a thing, then why? Is it because the car is too heavy? If so, why does the weight break down your IP training? Is it because the car is not alive? Can IP not be used on inanimate objects? If not then Why?

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Old 01-29-2011, 04:21 PM   #219
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

With all this talk about internal or external arts, and based on some things Chris Hein said got me researching and I came across Tim Cartmell's biography. Chris, I believe you said you trained or have trained with him before correct? Anyway, listed below is a piece of the article where he shares some thoughts on external vs. internal martial arts. Just additional food for thought for anyone that is interested. Here is the original link: http://www.shenwu.com/background.htm
Interviewer: What do you consider to be the distinguishing characteristics of Tai Ji, Xing Yi and Ba Gua, beyond the obvious physical differences?

Tim Cartmell: In answer to this question, let me first state that after twenty-five years of martial arts study and practice I think the labels Internal and External, although convenient, are really misnomers. In fact, if you ask a hundred different practitioners of the Chinese arts for a definition of these terms, you'll probably get a hundred different answers. In my opinion, all martial arts are based on certain sets of principles. The principles define the style. Calling Xing Yi Quan, Tai Ji Quan and Ba Gua Zhang Internal arts only began about seventy years ago. This came about because some famous practitioners of these styles in the early part of the Twentieth Century (most notably Sun Lu Tang) cross trained, and subsequently began referring to these arts as belonging to the same family, as they were based upon similar principles. Prior to this time, Xing Yi Quan, Tai Ji Quan, Ba Gua Zhang, the Shaolin arts, Long Fist, etc. were simply categorized as martial arts. What the above mentioned masters were referring to when they chose the label Internal was the underlying principles which were common to the arts they studied. Principles of the arts later named Internal were complete physical relaxation, yielding to force, the use of the power of the whole body under mental control and relying on sensitivity and skill to overcome brute strength. Now here is the problem with such labels. It is not the particular Art itself that is Internal or External, it is the way the art is practiced. There are no Internal or External martial arts, only Internal and External practitioners (if we assume Internal refers to the principles listed above, and external is anything which is outside of these principles). I have seen practitioners of the so-called External arts who were as soft as cotton and who threw their opponents seemingly by magic. I have also seen practitioners of Xing Yi Quan tensing their muscles so much that their arms were shaking with the effort. I often hear other teachers refer to some style as being Internal while another is External out of hand; if questioned, they really have no clear concept of the difference. It is popular to repeat some nebulous definition along the lines of the Internal styles cultivating Qi while the External styles are more concerned with muscle force. This is merely parroting the party line and, I think it will only lead to increasing confusion. Arts of Xing Yi Quan, Tai Ji Quan and Ba Gua Zhang, as Internal styles (based upon the principles of relaxation, yielding and skill listed above) really only differ in the manner in which these principles are applied, due to their founders' personal backgrounds, temperaments and needs. In a nutshell, Xing Yi Quan techniques tend to be more percussive in nature, with the Xing Yi Quan fighter preferring to attack, otherwise taking the smallest defensive angle possible before counter-attacking. It is important to remember Xing Yi Quan is an art originally based upon spear fighting. Tai Ji -Quan techniques tend toward yielding to force completely and then returning it to the opponent, much as the rebound of a rubber ball or the counter action to pressure on a balance scale. Tai Ji Quan techniques have their roots in the hand to hand combat techniques of the unarmed warrior dealing with an armed opponent. Ba Gua Zhang techniques differ widely between styles but emphasize mobility, flexible bodywork and evasion with direct counter attack. Striking combinations are secondary to throwing, takedown and leverage techniques.

Interviewer: Do you favor one internal system over the others, and if so, why?

Tim Cartmell: Since the Internal systems are based upon the same principles, training in one will develop the attributes necessary in the others. I think the important point is that no single martial art is adequate to prepare the practitioner for the full range of situations that may potentially occur in a real fight. Individuals will naturally gravitate toward those arts which best suit their individual physicality and personality, but it is vital to become well rounded enough to have constructive responses to any situation which may arise. Almost without exception, all of the famous masters of old (those that were famous for actually fighting) trained in several different systems. Cross training was and is the only way to truly prepare for real fighting. Remember that all styles of martial arts were founded by men who had cross-trained, and then christened their synthesis as a new style. As much as the romantic in us would like to believe the old myths, the truth is no one ever learned a style in a dream, from reading the Book of Changes or from watching snakes, birds and bugs. Personally, I believe that for the vast majority of people, although it is vital to be able to punch and kick, a foundation in the wrestling/grappling-based arts is the most important for martial proficiency.

Interviewer: What are your personal feelings about the internal and external styles?

Tim Cartmell: I think I summed up my feelings about the internal and external styles above. I would only add that I believe it is important to respect the practitioners of all types of martial arts, regardless of the style. Remaining humble with an open mind is the only way to continuous improvement. You can learn something from just about everyone. I often tell my students, "if it works for you, it's good."
I think the last comment on respecting practitioners of all types of martial arts says it best.

Last edited by Eric Joyce : 01-29-2011 at 04:27 PM. Reason: txt edit

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Old 01-29-2011, 04:29 PM   #220
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

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But any areas where IP and athletics might have the same goals (moving heavy weights, dynamically using the body, explosive force etc.) why would IP be a favored method of training over common athletic training. Plyometrics, aerobics, mobility training, agility drills, are all parts of what I would call common athletics training.
The easiest way to answer is to look at the very paradigm you are describing. Athleticism declines over time. The first thing to go is speed. That's why virtually all athletic competitors in any area requiring speed are young. Then power goes. Almost every competitive sport which has folks engaging n competition throughout their lives have age divisions. It's true of fencing, golf, etc. anything in which the skills are based on athleticism.

Then of course, there is the fact that athletically based skills require a division between the sexes. Almost no sports have men and women competing directly because men have more speed and power. This also applies, of course, to physical size even when we are talking about the same sex. Wrestling, Judo, Boxing, etc all have weight classes. Why? Because in standard athletically based skills size matters.

With so-called internal skills, what do we see? We see old Chinese men who can blow you across the room weighing in at just over 100 pounds. You have folks saying that O-Sensei was at his peak in terms of technique at age fifty. What athletic pursuit do you know of where that is true? Most sports you are old in your thirties. Sagawa stated that he made his biggest breakthrough at eighty after he had a stroke. Everyone who trained with him stated that his stuff went to a whole new level at the point at which any athlete I know of would be totally retired, forget getting better at his sport. Takeda taught right until he died in around 1945 which made him 84 years old.

I don't even see what the question is? These guys were around 5 feet tall and old and the were still awesome. Who thinks that you can do that in the gym with the finest trainers available? It is simply not the same thing going on. Even if you haven't had a chance to feel that it isn't from someone who has some of these skills, just look at the historical evidence. There is simply no way Takeda, Sagawa, and Ueshiba, just to name three, attained legendary status within a whole community of martial artists, including some Sumo folks, using any kind of standard athletic skills. Everyone in that community had standard skills and everyone trained very hard. These guys stood out. It wasn't that they were more athletic. Each of these guys maintained a high degree of skill well past the point at which most athletes have retired completely, in fact, by all accounts they got better. I think people just need to admit there's something they don't get, instead of constantly trying to fit everything into their own limited understanding

Last edited by George S. Ledyard : 01-29-2011 at 04:34 PM.

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Old 01-29-2011, 04:39 PM   #221
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

Yeap, I'm in agreement with that(Tim Cartmell's statements), I don't think anything I've said is contrary to that. I would like to again state though, this discussion comes from me, not any of my teachers.

I feel that I am a very open minded person. I have no problem with anyone training in any thing that they like. And again, if the opportunity arises I would go see some of these IP people that post so much here on Aikiweb. I'm not going to go way out of my way to do it, because I can't see anything in what they are doing that I don't understand.

The real problem I'm having here, is the theft of the word "Aiki" from the Aikido community. There is a strong vibe that Aiki is what some people call IP, IS, or what have you. I believe this to be very wrong. I believe you can learn "Aiki" from any reasonably skilled, regular, Aikido teacher. "Aiki" is already built into the system, you don't need to spend a lot of money, or go way out of your way to see one of a handful of teachers in order to study "Aiki".

The idea that only a few people possess this IP, and that you have to study with them personally to understand "Aiki", is a fallacy. This idea that IP is "Aiki" suggests that your Aikido is lacking if you don't study with one of these few teachers personally. I can't let that one go.

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Old 01-29-2011, 04:53 PM   #222
ChrisHein
 
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

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George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
The easiest way to answer is to look at the very paradigm you are describing. Athleticism declines over time.
Everything declines over time. Even Ueshiba became frail. Most athletes are competitive in nature, so once they feel that they can't compete at a high level, the quit their sport, stop training, and become un-athletic. This is not a flaw in athleticism, it's the fact that few continue to train into old age.

If you look at an athlete like Jack Lalanne, we see another story all together. He kept training into extreme old age. Jack could do things at 70 that none on this board can do in their 20's and 30's.

"1984 Age 70: Handcuffed, shackled and fighting strong winds and currents, towed 70 boats with 70 people from the Queen's Way Bridge in the Long Beach Harbor to the Queen Mary, 1 miles."

The problem comes when people stop training. Internal martial artists often train into old age because they train simply to train, they are not competing with anyone but themselves. If you practice athletics into old age, you will be strong as well. Special Internal martial arts training isn't a fountain of youth, movement and hard work into old age is.

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Old 01-29-2011, 04:55 PM   #223
Chris Li
 
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

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Chris Hein wrote: View Post

The real problem I'm having here, is the theft of the word "Aiki" from the Aikido community.
Shouldn't that be "the theft of the word "Aiki" from the Daito-ryu community" ?

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Chris Hein wrote:
That question was very sincere. If you can't do such a thing, then why? Is it because the car is too heavy? If so, why does the weight break down your IP training? Is it because the car is not alive? Can IP not be used on inanimate objects? If not then Why?
Well, IP isn't a magical force. In a sense, you're right, I think, in that it's all "athletics" in the end. On the other hand, IP training involves training and conditioning your body to move and function in a way that is isn't normally done in conventional athletics.

Or that's the way it seems to me...

Best,

Chris

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Old 01-29-2011, 05:05 PM   #224
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

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Christopher Li wrote: View Post
Shouldn't that be "the theft of the word "Aiki" from the Daito-ryu community" ?
I've never got the feeling that Aikido people are saying that you have to study Aikido in order to understand Daito ryu. That is the difference for me.

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IP training involves training and conditioning your body to move and function in a way that is isn't normally done in conventional athletics.
Okay, so back to the original question, in what areas is IP training superior to regular Athletics training? What can an IP person do that a regular athlete not do?

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Old 01-29-2011, 05:27 PM   #225
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

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Dan Harden wrote: View Post
We're all just bums on the budo bus.
I believe the correct turn of phrase is 'bozos on the budo bus' since working this hard at things like this one has got to have a few screws loose. The bums are the ones on the side of the road watching the bus go by while yelling 'look at those bozos!'

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
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