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Old 02-02-2011, 12:15 PM   #376
Mike Sigman
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

Quote:
Cady Goldfield wrote: View Post
Could you describe what these disagreements are, Mike? Keep in mind that I'm speaking only from my personal experience, habits and opinion.
Cady, I could describe the problem but since it covers an area of internal strength that hasn't been discussed on AikiWeb (and only partially in the general, and leaky, QiJin forum), it would take too much background information to build up to it. I could show you in reasonably short order the logic and how it pertains, but without writing my little fingies off I couldn't do much good setting up the scenario here. However, by indicating the disagreement to you, at least I've pointed out an opinion I have (feel free to agree or disagree or make use of the information).

I noted the other day the comment from someone that I was somehow setting myself up as the expert on I.S. Not at all. I've never said any such thing. However, think of internal strength as being like having the ability to write expert iambic-pentameter poetry.... without claiming the ability to write expert i-p poetry I at least know enough to spot when someone doesn't know the full alphabet; when someone can't construct a proper sentence; when someone can't write paragraphs, and so on. My point is that what I see missing (my point of disagreement) is not a particularly advanced observation; at least 20 or so people who read this forum can spot the same thing I did and demonstrate the idea. The difference being that instead of sitting silently by, I'm pointing it out. So, that being said and with the intention only of making a point for potential newby readers, I offered my opinion. Please carry on.

Best.

Mike

Last edited by Mike Sigman : 02-02-2011 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:48 PM   #377
Michael Hackett
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

Dang Janet, besides avoiding the snow, I'm having a very similar experience with the Aiki Taiso exercises. I think there is more work in store.....

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:54 PM   #378
phitruong
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

Quote:
Cady Goldfield wrote: View Post
Phi, do you hang around kids much, these days?
got two teenage boys. a few weeks ago when we had snow in charlotte, the conversation went as follow.

son a: dad can we go out and play in the snow and build the snowman?

dad: sure, as long as you clear the drive way first and the snow shovels are in the garage.

son b: but we want to play first.

dad: shovel first then play, then we will have hot coco.

son a: can we have pizza too?

dad: sure. and when you are done with the drive way, please clear the snow on my car parking outside too.

sons: can we also go see the green hornet when it come out?

dad: sure, once you are done with taking out the trash and put away your laundry.

sons: ok dad.

sometimes later..... dad looked out. the drive way were cleared so was the car. and kids were quite involved in building the snow domo.

sometimes later later... we sat watching re-run of air bender while eating pizza and drinking hot coco.

it's all how you blend with kids and manipulate their energy. all aiki really.
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Old 02-02-2011, 01:47 PM   #379
Cady Goldfield
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

Mike,
So be it; you remain true to your usual operating procedure, telling someone they reveal their lack of understanding, and then telling them why you're not going to elucidate them.

I don't pretend to be the world's go-to person for IP information; my own training is inchoate and I do the best I can under my circumstances. On the topic of athleticism (i.e. "external" methods) vs. IP -- I've yet to see you weigh in with anything of substance other than peanut-gallery remarks. At least some people here are making an effort to do so.

However, you might be mistaking intentional limiting of discussion breadth and depth, with a complete lack of understanding or exposure to aspects of IS training other than shoulder relaxation. You might be surprised to find that's not quite true, but you won't know because you don't think it's worth your while. That's okay.

Hey, I don't know much, but I can open stuck-tight jelly jars by "coiling" -- it used to drive my burly fiance nuts ("I must have loosened it up for you before you tried it..."). And I just shoveled out 60' of sidewalk and 100' of driveway filled with heavy slush-snow today in a way not unlike how I train with a heavy, solid steel pole. Not bad for a woman pushing 55. And I still have plenty of energy left to help the widow a couple houses away.
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Old 02-02-2011, 01:59 PM   #380
Cady Goldfield
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

Quote:
Keith Larman wrote: View Post
Hey, Cady, just wanted to say it's been great seeing you on-line again. Love reading your posts -- always gives me food for thought (like so many here).

Sorry for the interruption -- back to the regularly scheduled stuff...
Keith, that's really nice of you. Thank you. As long as it's clear that I am speaking strictly and solely from my own opinions. I reserve the right to be totally out in left field, and it should be no reflection on anyone but me.
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Old 02-02-2011, 02:02 PM   #381
Mike Sigman
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

Quote:
Cady Goldfield wrote: View Post
Mike,
So be it; you remain true to your usual operating procedure, telling someone they reveal their lack of understanding, and then telling them why you're not going to elucidate them.

I don't pretend to be the world's go-to person for IP information; my own training is inchoate and I do the best I can under my circumstances. On the topic of athleticism (i.e. "external" methods) vs. IP -- I've yet to see you weigh in with anything of substance other than peanut-gallery remarks. At least some people here are making an effort to do so.
Cady, to you personally all I said was that I disagree, if you'll look at what I wrote. And I gave a serious reason why I don't want to write it all out... I don't have all day and the background information has not been discussed on this forum. Lastly, I've contributed to this same topic a number of times over the years and I've even personally offered to meet with Chris Hein the last time I was in California (we couldn't get it to work). What more can I do?

Mike
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Old 02-02-2011, 02:12 PM   #382
Cady Goldfield
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
Cady, to you personally all I said was that I disagree, if you'll look at what I wrote. And I gave a serious reason why I don't want to write it all out... I don't have all day and the background information has not been discussed on this forum. Lastly, I've contributed to this same topic a number of times over the years and I've even personally offered to meet with Chris Hein the last time I was in California (we couldn't get it to work). What more can I do?

Mike
Mike, you stated: My point is that what I see missing (my point of disagreement) is not a particularly advanced observation;

But it requires you to type your fingers to the bone to express that observation in writing?
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Old 02-02-2011, 02:20 PM   #383
Mike Sigman
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

Quote:
Cady Goldfield wrote: View Post
Mike, you stated: My point is that what I see missing (my point of disagreement) is not a particularly advanced observation;

But it requires you to type your fingers to the bone to express that observation in writing?
Yes, it does. Because it takes some background about internal strength which hasn't been discussed on this forum and I doubt seriously that you know what I'm talking about or you wouldn't have posted what you did. Ipso facto. Hence my comment that it would take a lot of writing to get there.

Mike Sigman
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Old 02-02-2011, 02:26 PM   #384
Janet Rosen
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

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Michael Hackett wrote: View Post
Dang Janet, besides avoiding the snow, I'm having a very similar experience with the Aiki Taiso exercises. I think there is more work in store.....
Oh yeah.... glad I'm not alone at least

Janet Rosen
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Old 02-02-2011, 02:32 PM   #385
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

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Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
Yes, it does. Because it takes some background about internal strength which hasn't been discussed on this forum and I doubt seriously that you know what I'm talking about or you wouldn't have posted what you did. Ipso facto. Hence my comment that it would take a lot of writing to get there.

Mike Sigman
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" -Einstein
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Old 02-02-2011, 03:00 PM   #386
Keith Larman
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

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Cady Goldfield wrote: View Post
Keith, that's really nice of you. Thank you. As long as it's clear that I am speaking strictly and solely from my own opinions. I reserve the right to be totally out in left field, and it should be no reflection on anyone but me.
I would expect no more and no less. I expect to be wrong on a regular basis all by myself...

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Old 02-02-2011, 03:06 PM   #387
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

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"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" -Einstein
Even explaining something to your grandmother on a simple level can take quite a few words if you have to set up the basic premises.
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Old 02-02-2011, 03:38 PM   #388
Michael Varin
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

Quote:
Cady Goldfield wrote:
I know firsthand, because it's something I had to struggle with for many years, thanks to deep indoctrination in "external" MAs for decades prior.
Maybe, you don't know what you think you know about "externals."

Quote:
Cady Goldfield wrote:
That said, after a point in IP training, IME you can tell what sorts of athletics you can do, that won't make you flex your shoulders or get into other counter-productive habits. Sagawa did push-ups and likely did other familiar exercises, with no problems.
The shoulder is a complicated joint with many muscles involved in its movement. Can you explain what you mean by "flex your shoulders"?

Quote:
Cady Goldfield wrote:
But they gave up power lifting and other muscle-flex activities. There's one fellow who says that, try as he might, he can't throw a baseball to save his life, but I suspect it's because he has so refined his IP skills that he has completely wired out the "external hip torque" that powers a baseball as it does a karate punch, but which is counter-productive to internal power.
But,
Quote:
Jeremy Hulley wrote:
I couldn't throw a baseball with any zip at all until I spent some time with ark.
This is why I think this discussion still has much room for progress. I have heard people talk about "tense" or "flexed" muscles, but throwing an object is a classic example of where either of those things will sap your power.

It is already shaping up that our former competitive gymnast and sanshou fighter turned "internal" expert has a lot to offer golfers and baseball pitchers.

So what are these qualities? If there is no overlap and they are actually antagonistic to each other, why do we see these results?

-Michael
"Through aiki we can feel the mind of the enemy who comes to attack and are thus able to respond immediately." - M. Mochizuki
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Old 02-02-2011, 03:40 PM   #389
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

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Robert Roeser wrote: View Post
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" -Einstein
Nonsense.

Any explanation requires shared references between the person explaining and the listener. The less experience with the topic the listener has, the more detail the explainer will need to leave out. What remains may give the listener a surface understanding of the subject, but not the details they need to actually do something with that understanding.

For example, Einstein's own thought experiments give a good overview of how general relativity works and what it means. Understandable by any intelligent adult willing to put a little thought into it -- I've read his book. But I defy anyone to predict the observable effects of the sun's gravitational lensing without using some pretty serious math.

Even assuming it were possible to explain "what IP is" in terms that would satisfy the OP and those who agree with him, that explanation would be almost useless to someone trying to replicate IP-powered effects. As Janet said up-thread, you could contemplate your parasympathetic nervous system from now until November without making a whole lot of progess.

Katherine
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Old 02-02-2011, 04:07 PM   #390
Mike Sigman
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

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Michael Varin wrote: View Post
It is already shaping up that our former competitive gymnast and sanshou fighter turned "internal" expert has a lot to offer golfers and baseball pitchers.

So what are these qualities? If there is no overlap and they are actually antagonistic to each other, why do we see these results?
It's a valid question, Michael. I can remember some workshops in years past I had some occasional women over 60 in the class and I was able to teach them (in an orderly progression) to the point that they could use a coarse jin to toss a large man backward through the air a little distance. So what they were using was a limited, coarse aspect of the greater internal-strength skills and training. Analogous to teaching a golfer or baseball player to doing a limited aspect of internal strength. If you want to do the Whole Banana (tm) of internal strength you have to train the body in a different way than normal movement; re-train the way you move completely. If you don't do a good re-training and you're at the same time constantly training, say, weight-lifting, with normal strength, you just never get there.

FWIW

Mike Sigman
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Old 02-02-2011, 04:17 PM   #391
rroeserr
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

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Katherine Derbyshire wrote: View Post
Nonsense.

Any explanation requires shared references between the person explaining and the listener. The less experience with the topic the listener has, the more detail the explainer will need to leave out. What remains may give the listener a surface understanding of the subject, but not the details they need to actually do something with that understanding.

For example, Einstein's own thought experiments give a good overview of how general relativity works and what it means. Understandable by any intelligent adult willing to put a little thought into it -- I've read his book. But I defy anyone to predict the observable effects of the sun's gravitational lensing without using some pretty serious math.

Even assuming it were possible to explain "what IP is" in terms that would satisfy the OP and those who agree with him, that explanation would be almost useless to someone trying to replicate IP-powered effects. As Janet said up-thread, you could contemplate your parasympathetic nervous system from now until November without making a whole lot of progess.

Katherine
So you like to do things you can't explain? If I ask you why you are doing why you are doing an IP exercise do you need a book or can you give a quick over view?
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Old 02-02-2011, 04:30 PM   #392
kewms
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

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Robert Roeser wrote: View Post
So you like to do things you can't explain? If I ask you why you are doing why you are doing an IP exercise do you need a book or can you give a quick over view?
I think numerous "quick overviews" have been provided in this thread, and they don't seem to have satisfied the OP, while at the same time drawing justified criticism for not including the whole book.

I suspect most aikidoka -- no matter what their level, using IP or not -- would be hard-pressed to explain the biomechanics of what they're doing. That doesn't mean that they can't do it, or even teach it to others.

And so the insistence on detailed mechanistic explanations for everything seems to me to be most useful as a rhetorical club, rather than as a genuine attempt to develop further understanding.

Katherine
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Old 02-02-2011, 04:46 PM   #393
Janet Rosen
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

Quote:
Robert Roeser wrote: View Post
So you like to do things you can't explain? If I ask you why you are doing why you are doing an IP exercise do you need a book or can you give a quick over view?
Again I'm going to analogy.
I have taught beginning painting classes. I can offer exercises for sharpening observation skills of color, principles of the relationship of colors in light and shadow, and give people the knowledge and skill they need to be able to mix colors.
Myself, after many years of painting - and I am by no means a master painter - I can look at almost anything and mix a color match to it using acrylic paint.
I do this with no real understanding of the optics, pigments or chemistry involved. I cannot explain it beyond metaphors like describing a color as "cooler" or "warmer."
Does this mean that I'm not actually matching the color or transferring the skill?

Janet Rosen
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Old 02-02-2011, 05:52 PM   #394
Keith Larman
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

I think some are taking a counter example way too far. I don't think Robert was talking about giving an exhaustive account of biomechanical functions across the human body. What was given was a critique without much of an explanation as to what was wrong. To use an Einstein example it would be like insisting the twins would age at different rates in Einstein's twin paradox, then when asked why refusing to even describe the scenario Einstein laid out. If someone is going to wade into a discussion on time dilation and insist that the twin paradox is true *and* insist authoritatively that someone else clearly doesn't understand it, then they might want to be willing to offer up the basic gist of the Twin Paradox thought experiment. Maybe it is okay to say "I've covered this a thousand times before". Post a link to one of those explanations. Or one could give a reference to someone else, a book, whatever. I don't think anyone should expect a dissertation on time dilation with full annotations and equations. But if one is to offer up critique it is quite helpful to have something constructive to say as to why and what they might to do address it.

To use Janet's very good example her justification is exactly what she wrote. She teaches, explains, and shows the student what to do. The point here is that while Janet may not offer up a detailed explanation covering reflection, refraction, etc., she does offer up training and experience and I would think could offer up concrete examples of how one might do something. For instance, mixing yellow and red will give you orange. Not green. To "warm" up a certain tone one might try using less blue. Or more red. Or whatever. I'm out of my league there anyway...

But the point is the same and I don't think Einstein was being so very literal about it.

In other words, I see Robert's point. FWIW. It's something I try to remind myself about when I post nowadays on topics in my own area of expertise. I tend to avoid any comment, positive or negative, if I'm not willing or able to give a fairly straightforward justification. Otherwise it just looks like sniping from the peanut gallery. And in the end it does very little good.

Last edited by Keith Larman : 02-02-2011 at 05:54 PM. Reason: grammar as always.

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Old 02-02-2011, 06:37 PM   #395
Mike Sigman
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

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Keith Larman wrote: View Post
I tend to avoid any comment, positive or negative, if I'm not willing or able to give a fairly straightforward justification.
OK, then give a straightforward justification why Cady is right or why she is wrong. After all, you did all of this stuff with Tohei, so I suspect you can offer something to the discussion. As far as I can see, Cady asserted something authoritatively; I didn't challenge her to explain it in depth, I didn't suggest that she was "being her usual self", and I didn't make any shots about 'peanut galleries'. I actually think I did her a good turn by pointing out an error in her assertion; now she can go to her teacher and get him to explain it to her..... unless, of course, he agrees with her position.

2 cents.

Mike Sigan
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:41 PM   #396
Keith Larman
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

Mike, I'm not saying she's right or wrong and I have no idea. Tis the point. Hence why I didn't say anything to her post. No idea, as you know, I'm just a beginner.

My point was intended to be a general one about Einstein's quote since I've found helpful in my own posting. Because I've gone down that road before offering critiques on things I had no means of responding to. I realized I can't answer everything on-line and sometimes, for me, it is better to simply not answer. Or to at least have something to be helpful.

I'm not claiming to have any answers here, Mike. I go to seminars trying to learn from you guys.

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Old 02-02-2011, 08:07 PM   #397
Keith Larman
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

Thinking about it more and i"ll try to be more straightforward. Per request.

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Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
OK, then give a straightforward justification why Cady is right or why she is wrong.
I don't have an straightforward justification because the area I read that seemed to illicit the response was on the topic of "gym exercise" not necessarily being in conflict with developing IS but sometimes can be. Of course it was a fairly general and long comment, so let me post it again.

Quote:
Guys, they are different methodolgies, yes. Will conventional means of strength development (e.g. weight lifting, etc.) create obstacles for cultivating relaxed, "soft" power? Yes. You've heard it from IP practioners say this time and again. Sagawa said it constantly.

For someone just starting out in IP, the re-wiring needed for correct neuromuscular, structural development is hard enough; adding an unrelated training regimen that uses the body in a completely different way, will make IP way more difficult, confusing, and progress will be much slower if at all.

I know firsthand, because it's something I had to struggle with for many years, thanks to deep indoctrination in "external" MAs for decades prior. And others have said the same. Someone earlier on in the forum stated that when he went back to his former, athletic-type training, it undid all the hard work he'd put into IP training. Dropping the former resulted in restoring his ability in the latter.

That said, after a point in IP training, IME you can tell what sorts of athletics you can do, that won't make you flex your shoulders or get into other counter-productive habits. Sagawa did push-ups and likely did other familiar exercises, with no problems.

I know IP people who play golf, shoot hoops, do sit-ups and push-ups. But they gave up power lifting and other muscle-flex activities. There's one fellow who says that, try as he might, he can't throw a baseball to save his life, but I suspect it's because he has so refined his IP skills that he has completely wired out the "external hip torque" that powers a baseball as it does a karate punch, but which is counter-productive to internal power.
So I'm not exactly sure what you took exception to in the post. Was it the whole flex the shoulders thing? I honestly don't know and I don't have an opinion on that since I'm just trying to figure out how to do the little I've been taught and I'm not exactly sure what she meant about it. I know that when my shoulder comes up and out I often can't do diddly the way I want to. But again I'm not sure exactly what she was getting at with that small snippet.

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
After all, you did all of this stuff with Tohei, so I suspect you can offer something to the discussion.
Hmmm. Lovely. Actually Rod Kobayashi started Seidokan after he left Tohei's group. So I'm not a student of Tohei and I wouldn't want anything I say here to be confused for anything pertinent to Ki Society today, certainly not directly. We did come from Tohei's direct lineage, however. As I understand the history of Rod Kobayashi-sensei (errors are mine and mine only) Kobayashi's first teachers were at Hawaii Aikikai. Yukiso Yamamoto, Kazuto Sugimoto, and Isao Takahashi. In 1961 after finishing his military service he was able to start training more with Tohei on his visits here as well as visiting Japan. Some time in the early to mid 70's (pre-split) he was the title of Chief Lectureship of Ki Development and the Chief Instructor of Shinshin Toitsu Aikido of the Ki Society Western USA. Kobayashi resigned from Ki Society and the Ki no Kenkyu Kai in 1981 to form Seidokan with a focus on ki training. So we do trace back to Tohei, but split off from Tohei in 1981 (30 years ago). Hopefully that qualifies where I came from.

So, all that context out of the way, I don't recall anyone ever talking about exercise outside the dojo. I know I've suggested to some people that they get out and get some basic cardio vascular work. Lord knows it is a struggle for me as well, but that's about blood pressure and general health. Most of the serious students I trained with had their hobbies of their own, but free time for athletic stuff was usually spent in the dojo. And the focus was always on testing throughout the aiki taiso, techniques, heck, anytime and anywhere.

WRT to shoulders, I still remember people whacking my on my shoulders at every point including in the aiki taiso telling me the shoulders need to stay down and attached to the whole body. Doing what I do I tend to carry a lot of tension up in my shoulders. So what I was told is that a raised shoulder can often be a sign of losing "unification of body". Heck, a lot of technique involve nage trying to get uke's shoulder up so they easily move them around. It is hard to think someone has adopted a principle of "weight settled down" or "weight underside" if their shoulder is up around their ears. So it is pretty basic although I can imagine there will always be exceptions.

WRT to whether doing exercises that loosen up the shoulder joint, or strengthen the joint outside of aikido, I have no idea.

WRT to traditional usage of the shoulder in Japanese martial arts, sword arts in particular do not look fondly on raised shoulders for a lot of the same reasons. And if you've ever practiced tameshigiri with a real sword you learn quite quickly the difference between a good cut and a muscled cut. Shoulders up on a difficult cut can actually hurt. I know a guy who sprained his shoulder doing a dodan due to overextension.

But again I don't recall anyone ever explicitly talking about exercise outside the dojo. Most were too busy trying to get as many hours on the mat as possible without ending up in divorce court.

I will say that I've known at least three major body builders who tried aikido. All three made little progress. They were generally easy to throw and they basically could only perform their throws with brute force and were often fairly easy to futz with when they tried.

I knew another guy who boxed a lot. Powerful punches. But again, softness, subtlety and sensitivity are not words I'd use...

And in my case I've had so many health problems and injuries that I've been focused more on exercises I'm doing with my physical therapist. Ironically he's increasingly getting into the whole body/fascia approach. And the body weight exercises and stretches I'm doing there look an awful lot more like things I've seen you, Dan, Toby, Ark (not in person yet), et al do.

But as I type all this I'm still not sure what the question is. Because Cady's post covered a lot of territory, really, and was quite vague. As such I didn't put too much import on much since I could easily think of "exercises" that would be helpful for IS (pushups by "pulling" yourself down to the ground with a wide placement of the hands to activate the complete connection internall then letting yourself essentially "spring" up as an example). And I could think of my body builder friends who quickly got no where at all.

So what's the question again? And what's the critique?

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
As far as I can see, Cady asserted something authoritatively; I didn't challenge her to explain it in depth, I didn't suggest that she was "being her usual self", and I didn't make any shots about 'peanut galleries'. I actually think I did her a good turn by pointing out an error in her assertion; now she can go to her teacher and get him to explain it to her..... unless, of course, he agrees with her position.
-- emphasis added for clarity.


But I think this was my point. Unless I missed it you didn't point out the error in her assertion (that didn't read all that specific to me in the first place).

Last edited by Keith Larman : 02-02-2011 at 08:09 PM.

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Old 02-02-2011, 08:44 PM   #398
Mike Sigman
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

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Keith Larman wrote: View Post
But I think this was my point. Unless I missed it you didn't point out the error in her assertion (that didn't read all that specific to me in the first place).
I pointed out that there was AN error... the exact error I'll leave alone because it would, as I said, put me into the position of defending and giving out information, something I've done fairly freely on this forum a number of years, if you check the archives. Ask me sometime if I see you and I'll show you quickly why there's an obvious problem.

Mike Sigman
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Old 02-02-2011, 09:16 PM   #399
Michael Varin
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

Quote:
Keith Larman wrote:
As such I didn't put too much import on much since I could easily think of "exercises" that would be helpful for IS (pushups by "pulling" yourself down to the ground with a wide placement of the hands to activate the complete connection internall then letting yourself essentially "spring" up as an example).
Keith,

Would you care to expand on that? Especially "pulling yourself down" and how it relates to "activate the complete connection internall[y]"?

I realize that many tend to avoid questions that probe deeper, but I get the sense that you are not inclined to do that. And I don't really care what your level of expertise is. I'm just curious because this sounds very similar to the way that I would explain good pressing form.

-Michael
"Through aiki we can feel the mind of the enemy who comes to attack and are thus able to respond immediately." - M. Mochizuki
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Old 02-02-2011, 09:46 PM   #400
Janet Rosen
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Re: Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism?

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Michael Varin wrote: View Post
Keith,

Would you care to expand on that? Especially "pulling yourself down" and how it relates to "activate the complete connection internall[y]"?

I realize that many tend to avoid questions that probe deeper, but I get the sense that you are not inclined to do that. And I don't really care what your level of expertise is. I'm just curious because this sounds very similar to the way that I would explain good pressing form.
I also find myself fascinated by what Keith wrote because I relate it to some of the principles in Pilates (move down to move up) that I've incorporated into my aikido. So I'm also eager to read more on this.

Janet Rosen
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