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Old 01-25-2011, 03:46 PM   #101
Janet Rosen
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
He doesn't pull any punches and, maybe because I am from the NE originally, I don't mind that. He wouldn't be happy in Seattle.
The Brooklyn girl who lives in Mendopia is giggling her head off.

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Old 01-25-2011, 03:47 PM   #102
David Orange
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
Ease up on Tony... he's just a curmudgeon, like a number of my friends. I am sure we'd like each other if we went out for a brew... At least he is straight up about what he thinks, you don't have to guess. He doesn't pull any punches and, maybe because I am from the NE originally, I don't mind that. He wouldn't be happy in Seattle.
Tony and I are about the same age. I know I'm a bit of a curmudgeon, too, so what can I say? I probably wouldn't be too happy in Seattle either, though I hear it's a nice place to visit.

Best to you.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

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Old 01-25-2011, 03:52 PM   #103
Cady Goldfield
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

George,
I just knew you'd say that.

Agreed. I do respect skeptics who have a lot of experience miles behind them. But I respect, even more, someone who will seize an opportunity to test something first-hand, instead of just pass off all the arguments to do so as useless blather.

What truly amazes me, is that up to a couple of years ago, it was just a few lonely voices in the forest talking about this stuff, and now there are all of these enthusiastic folks sharing notes. about "internal." There finally is an open flow of discourse.

Since I started reading the aikido- and other MA listservs 15 or more years ago, and then the MA websites as they came into being, talk about IP and aiki has gone from one person to scores of people, many of whom are speaking from firsthand experience. People now are now talking about -how- to develop IP and aiki, and not whether or not there is such thing as IP and aiki. It has gone from myth and mystique to being recognized as a substantial and discrete form of skill with concrete, tangible methods. That's the real news here. It's unprecedented!

So, a few lingering skeptics aren't necessarily a bad thing. I just wish they'd get off the pot and find out for themselves why there is all this "yaddayadda" to begin with.

Last edited by Cady Goldfield : 01-25-2011 at 04:01 PM.
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Old 01-25-2011, 04:03 PM   #104
Diana Frese
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

Glad to revisit this thread, when I last posted I mentioned I needed to learn better balance from Shotokan Karate, or at least that was
the opportunity that presented itself, and it had other benefits too, like the beauty of the kata and understanding of another martial art, at least to the degree I was able to learn it, and what I heard from the person I eventually married...

He and I very much "like" Tony's video and plan to study it when we get a chance. Maybe if you ask him very nicely he will post it to any of you who are interested. I've seen a lot of Aikido and, hey, you might be surprised to find he has what this thread may be about IM maybe not so H opinion......

But I'm just an old codgeress hoping to train once the ice is out of the driveway and the woodpile is no longer in the vestibule where we were intending to practice..... Is that the NE you remember?

Seems to me this winter is Hokkaido or Minnesota, Maine or Quebec. thanks Mary for reminding us of its beauty.

Regards Tohei Sensei, I remember his explanation of the meaning of tenkan, "See his point of view" Or was it Maruyama Sensei who said that. Anything anyone gave me that would help my students I passed on to them, and that was an important one.

Just a few thoughts, I will definitely read the many posts thoroughly when I get a chance.

Tony the Tiger, from an American, I hope others can see your kindness. Your Aikido is the real thing, in my not so humble opinion. As Snoopy says, in Charlie Brown, "I calls them as I
sees them". But we only have dial up and will have to wait till a
day we can spend an afternoon, but the benefit is all the stops and pauses will enable us to learn the real secrets of an Aikido video.
You have two real fans in this house.
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Old 01-25-2011, 05:11 PM   #105
gates
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

I have no real hands on experience of IP.
I am relatively young and it is early days in my Aikido journey.
I have a lot to learn.
I am intrigued about IP and thirsty in my pursuit of Aikido. If IP can add to this then why wouldn't I endeavor to find out more.

However I think it is critically important to consider the true motivations of my actions and desires. I will search inside myself and ask what is the motivation for wanting to learn IP.

If it is to become more powerful so I can defeat the evil doers and defend the weak from the strong, then I will try to forget it or at least proceed with caution. I will also be cautious of the motivations and mindset of any instructor I chose to teach me.

If however it is another means by which I can learn how to resolve conflict with subtle uses of a mind body connection. Then great - count me in.

Last edited by gates : 01-25-2011 at 05:26 PM.

Enjoy the journey
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Old 01-25-2011, 05:28 PM   #106
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

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Yeah, that last part was as much for me as for him. hehee

MM
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Old 01-25-2011, 05:53 PM   #107
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

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Keith Gates wrote: View Post
However I think it is critically important to consider the true motivations of my actions and desires. I will search inside myself and ask what is the motivation for wanting to learn IP.
May I suggest you get your hands on a copy of Ellis Amdurs' "Old School: Essays on Japanese Martial Traditions" and read the chapter about the origins of Araki-ryu. I think you'll find it interesting.

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Old 01-25-2011, 06:13 PM   #108
gregstec
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
Ease up on Tony... he's just a curmudgeon, like a number of my friends. I am sure we'd like each other if we went out for a brew... At least he is straight up about what he thinks, you don't have to guess. He doesn't pull any punches and, maybe because I am from the NE originally, I don't mind that. He wouldn't be happy in Seattle.
OK - I may have been quick on the trigger with my post. Tony should have highlighted the end of your post so maybe the intent of his post would have been more clear.

I also understand your appreciation of someone being direct, speaking their minds, and not pulling punches - I believe I have a good friend like that who teaches IP/IS Others may find him abrasive, but I love him like family.

The only other thing I would like to add is to say to Tony that no one knows it all and there are many on the IP side that have had the exact same mind set you have presented in this thread - I won't mention names ( but if you ask Dave O in a PM, he may enlighten you a bit there) anyway, I am a live and let live type of person and will fight to defend anyone's right to present their views and beliefs as they see fit as long as they don't infringe on the same from others. My advice to anyone is to check out these guys teaching IP if you get a chance before you dismiss this stuff altogether - if after that you maintain the same mind set, so be it - at least you looked into it and found it is not for you - simple as that.

Best to all

Greg
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Old 01-25-2011, 06:29 PM   #109
David Orange
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

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Keith Gates wrote: View Post
I will search inside myself and ask what is the motivation for wanting to learn IP.

If it is to become more powerful so I can defeat the evil doers and defend the weak from the strong, then I will try to forget it or at least proceed with caution. I will also be cautious of the motivations and mindset of any instructor I chose to teach me.
Geeesshhh.

Well, I guess you wouldn't have wanted to study with Morihei Ueshiba, then. Do you know why he started training?

He saw his father beaten by a gang over a political dispute and he determined that he would never be pushed around like that.

Aikido without the capacity to stop a violent attacker is just very bad modern dance.

Best to you.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
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Old 01-25-2011, 06:44 PM   #110
David Orange
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

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Keith Gates wrote: View Post
...I think it is critically important to consider the true motivations of my actions and desires. I will search inside myself and ask what is the motivation for wanting to learn IP.

If it is to become more powerful so I can defeat the evil doers and defend the weak from the strong, then I will try to forget it or at least proceed with caution. I will also be cautious of the motivations and mindset of any instructor I chose to teach me.
Where this is concerned, I have been happy for many years with my aikido for self defense and defense of others. That is not my motivation for IP training.

Since I began following Ark, Dan and Mike's thinking, I've learned incredible things and learned to use less muscle and strength than ever in my experience. And I have found the real nature of ki in myself, which I did not find through over 35 years of technical aikido training.

This stuff is at the heart of aikido, which is a serious martial art. You won't become any more like Morihei Ueshiba ignoring the martial nature of aikido. So skip it if you like, but sniping remarks about the motivations and mindset of people who really follow Morihei simply reflect poorly on your own motivations.

Good luck.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
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Old 01-25-2011, 06:54 PM   #111
David Orange
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

Quote:
Diana Frese wrote: View Post
He and I very much "like" Tony's video and plan to study it when we get a chance. Maybe if you ask him very nicely he will post it to any of you who are interested. I've seen a lot of Aikido and, hey, you might be surprised to find he has what this thread may be about IM maybe not so H opinion......
Are you talking about Tony Wagstaffe and the video on his profile page?

He gets kicked in the stomach once, stands in place and lets the attack actually reach him before he moves, performs an escape from a knife to his throat in which the attacker has free use of the knife while Tony changes his hand position, just to mention a few.

And among his students, one young woman gets stabbed in the back and in another example grabs the knife blade with her hand....

But maybe we're not talking about the same video...

Oh. I read further down and saw that you were viewing it on dial-up. It has some interesting moments, but the very serious flaws detract severely from that. Better watch closely.

Best to you.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
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Old 01-25-2011, 09:58 PM   #112
gates
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

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David Orange wrote: View Post
but sniping remarks about the motivations and mindset of people who really follow Morihei simply reflect poorly on your own motivations
I think you have misjudged me, and I am aware of Morihei's initial teenage motivations. I have made no sniping remarks. I have stated my opinions openly, I have not badmouthed any individual or IP itself. There has however, seemed to have been, an underlying theme in this thread that the reason one should add IP to training is to become stronger in a combat situation, wanting to be like Morihei a double hard badass. Other people have quietly added that IP can be fun, interesting, add value to Aikido study, and that having power doesn't mean you will abuse it.

I don't know you I am not judging you, or your motives. But I do know Morihei prayed to the kami every day, chanted sutra's and practiced kototama intently, he considered martial arts training as misogi. "Aikido is misogi. Misogi of ourselves".

As I see it there are different ways you can want to 'follow' Morihei. Last week I happened to be sitting at the Aiki-Jinja in Iwama, praying to the kami and practicing Kototama myself, so please before you judge my motivations, get to know me. I sat exactly where he sat, recited the same kototama, following his footsteps right up to the front of the Aiki-Jinja. As I said before I believe Morihei was in a search for truth not power, despite how it may have started out.

People have alluded to the fact that they are not sure where Morihei's subtle internal power came from, and nobody thus far seems to have considered that perhaps it was the hours of daily kototama practice. After all in his final public address he did say:
"Aikido is the technique of Ki, and the subtle uses of kototama. I am now standing on ame no ukihashi and going to dance the kagura mai while praying for a great love of all nations of the world.."

Enjoy the journey
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Old 01-25-2011, 10:19 PM   #113
David Orange
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

Quote:
Keith Gates wrote: View Post
I think you have misjudged me, and I am aware of Morihei's initial teenage motivations. I have made no sniping remarks. I have stated my opinions openly, I have not badmouthed any individual or IP itself. There has however, seemed to have been, an underlying theme in this thread that the reason one should add IP to training is to become stronger in a combat situation, wanting to be like Morihei a double hard badass.
Well, there's your sniping. Show me one comment by anyone saying they want to be a double hard badass. And you seriously misunderstand aikido and budo if you think there is another standard behind them than the ability to stop very violent people in their tracks.

Quote:
Keith Gates wrote: View Post
Other people have quietly added that IP can be fun, interesting, add value to Aikido study, and that having power doesn't mean you will abuse it.
Fun, interesting and adding Truth to your aikido have been the main motivations for all involved. And I know way too many people who couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag who abuse the power of being a "sensei" with their nidan of form-only aikido. So just because someone has real power and knows the real value of form...seems to elicit a lot of jealousy and defensiveness from people who know only the form and aren't even very good at that. At least with real "form" of aikido you can still defend yourself. With the addition of IP, you can also have the incredible experience of learning the real truth of aikido.

Quote:
Keith Gates wrote: View Post
I don't know you I am not judging you, or your motives. But I do know Morihei prayed to the kami every day, chanted sutra's and practiced kototama intently, he considered martial arts training as misogi. "Aikido is misogi. Misogi of ourselves".
Same Morihei who taught at the Imperial Naval Academy of Japan during the war....and who really changed his views after the virtual destruction of his country due to their own militarism. The same Morihei who said that "Aiki is harmonizing with the other person so that I can make them do what I want. You're quoting the leaves. We're looking at the roots. You can't just take the old man without knowing the young man that he was. He continued to show his power all his life. So you shouldn't act like power is something bad and that Morihei had no power and wanted no power. You have to take the whole thing. A person with real power is the only one who can be "merciful". Those without power can only flee.

Quote:
Keith Gates wrote: View Post
As I see it there are different ways you can want to 'follow' Morihei. Last week I happened to be sitting at the Aiki-Jinja in Iwama, praying to the kami and practicing Kototama myself, so please before you judge my motivations, get to know me. I sat exactly where he sat, recited the same kototama, following his footsteps right up to the front of the Aiki-Jinja. As I said before I believe Morihei was in a search for truth not power, despite how it may have started out.
You were there how long? 3 months?

Get to know me before you try to impress me with something like that. Morihei was a great man and his art is great--IF it contains the real essence of what he was doing. You can follow the form and appearance all you want, but without the essence, it's just a tea cup. I'll take the tea he was drinking.

Quote:
Keith Gates wrote: View Post
People have alluded to the fact that they are not sure where Morihei's subtle internal power came from, and nobody thus far seems to have considered that perhaps it was the hours of daily kototama practice.
Sure, that was part of it, but he had that kind of power long before he was so religious. He got it from what Takeda Sokaku taught him--the same place Sagawa and Horikawa got it.

Quote:
Keith Gates wrote: View Post
After all in his final public address he did say:
"Aikido is the technique of Ki, and the subtle uses of kototama. I am now standing on ame no ukihashi and going to dance the kagura mai while praying for a great love of all nations of the world.."
And that's very good, but it's not really the totality of who he was or what he did. I knew people who knew him as a man. And they were very good people, too. Morihei was not a god. He was not someone who floated above the ground. He was attached by the roots of how he got to where he was, which was hard training in very serious and dangerous aiki-jujutsu.

Like so many American Christians who would crucify Jesus again for preaching that "the love of money is the root of all evil," most modern aikidoka would reject the real Morhihei Ueshiba if they actually knew what he did to achieve his legendary status.

Reality to you.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
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Old 01-25-2011, 10:56 PM   #114
gates
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

David you know how long I was there for because I havn't hidden it and saying I am trying to impress you is ridiculous.

I refuse to be batted into a childish egotistical driven argument with you. We clearly have differing opinions on what Aikido means to us, and thats fine by me.

Enjoy the journey
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Old 01-26-2011, 04:47 AM   #115
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

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Keith Gates wrote: View Post
After all in his final public address he did say: "Aikido is the technique of Ki, and the subtle uses of kototama. I am now standing on ame no ukihashi and going to dance the kagura mai while praying for a great love of all nations of the world.."
Citation please.

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Old 01-26-2011, 05:58 AM   #116
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

Perhaps another type of internal strength is the ability to enter and blend (harmonize) with those who question, doubt, or totally disagree with us.

Our tendency is that the more energy someone gives us, the more resistance we offer back.

I remember being told about a rule of 10. If your opponent gives you 9 units of energy, you only need to respond with 1 (9+1=10). If an opponent gives you 5 units of energy, you only need to respond with 5 (5+5=10).

IMHO, the more internal strength (physically, energetically, and psychologically) we have the more we can invite disagreement without giving up our own balance or center. If someone can take our balance and center by simply questioning or disagreeing with us, it only proves we need more training.

The only reason we shoot the messenger is that they just might be speaking the truth.

Lynn Seiser PhD
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We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 01-26-2011, 06:28 AM   #117
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

Quote:
Cady Goldfield wrote: View Post
So, a few lingering skeptics aren't necessarily a bad thing. I just wish they'd get off the pot and find out for themselves why there is all this "yaddayadda" to begin with.
Perhaps it's because they've seen the advocates of IP as self-represented in these forums, and their presentation and expressed attitudes towards categories of people here causes doubts about what they'd be like in person, as a teacher.
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Old 01-26-2011, 06:31 AM   #118
gates
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

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Citation please.
My pleasure;

On January 15, 1968, the annual "Kagami Biraki" ceremony was held at Hombu Dojo and the Founder gave the following speech:

"Aikido is the technique of ‘ki' and the subtle uses of kotodama. I am now standing on "ame no ukihashi" (a floating bridge to Heaven) and am going to dance the "kagura mai" (sacred dance) while praying for a great love of all nations of the world…."

(Aikido Journal Article: Founder of Aikido (42): Passing On)

Again similar lines:

"Aikido is the marvelous functioning of kototama [cosmic vibrations] and misogi [purification of body and mind]"

Source: The Heart of Aikido, The Philosophy of Takamusu Aiki, Morihei Ueshiba.

Enjoy the journey
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Old 01-26-2011, 06:48 AM   #119
gregstec
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote: View Post
Perhaps another type of internal strength is the ability to enter and blend (harmonize) with those who question, doubt, or totally disagree with us.

Our tendency is that the more energy someone gives us, the more resistance we offer back.

I remember being told about a rule of 10. If your opponent gives you 9 units of energy, you only need to respond with 1 (9+1=10). If an opponent gives you 5 units of energy, you only need to respond with 5 (5+5=10).

IMHO, the more internal strength (physically, energetically, and psychologically) we have the more we can invite disagreement without giving up our own balance or center. If someone can take our balance and center by simply questioning or disagreeing with us, it only proves we need more training.

The only reason we shoot the messenger is that they just might be speaking the truth.
Ah, the psychological IP - yes, that is a higher level that is often overlooked - some very good points - thanks for bringing it out to our attention

Greg
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Old 01-26-2011, 07:13 AM   #120
David Orange
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

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Lynn Seiser wrote: View Post
Perhaps another type of internal strength is the ability to enter and blend (harmonize) with those who question, doubt, or totally disagree with us.
There is some truth in that, Lynn. However, the further we get from the roots of the martial art of aikido, the more we see people trying to neuter all martial utility from the art. When this happens, the form of technique becomes an end in itself and even that becomes subservient to a philosophy loosely based on Morihei Ueshiba's words, but which, along with the strange way of practicing techniques, he would not recognize. As he shouted in anger at his students, "That is not my aikido!" I say in some irritation, "That is not aikido!"

Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote: View Post
Our tendency is that the more energy someone gives us, the more resistance we offer back.
Well, we could see it as "resistance" or simply as fudoshin.

Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote: View Post
I remember being told about a rule of 10. If your opponent gives you 9 units of energy, you only need to respond with 1 (9+1=10). If an opponent gives you 5 units of energy, you only need to respond with 5 (5+5=10).

IMHO, the more internal strength (physically, energetically, and psychologically) we have the more we can invite disagreement without giving up our own balance or center. If someone can take our balance and center by simply questioning or disagreeing with us, it only proves we need more training.
Again, that is true and it is also true that on the internet everyone may appear equally valid--especially if they have some credentials, however smalll. And it is important that posters understand that it's a bad idea to preach a philosophy of aikido that distorts the original roots and truth of the art and the people who created it, especially when they simultaneously insult people who are still following that root path. If someone with some small credentials is not challenged by his slightly more experienced peers, that kind of thing can take roots of its own. Already in the US, that kind of attitude has grown large (though hardly strong--Heaven forbid any strength should appear anywhere). We see empty technique and more and more we're seeing elaborate ukemi that would have been dangerous to the uke if the nage were someone like O Sensei, Saito Sensei or Gozo Shioda Sensei. It is important that inexperienced people mislead those with even less experience by suggesting that we remove the heart of aikido because it is evil--that by removing the real spirit of budo, we can more closely approximate what O Sensei intended. It simply isn't so.

Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote: View Post
The only reason we shoot the messenger is that they just might be speaking the truth.
Well, take any video clip of Gozo Shioda in action. Take away all the internal power. Take away all the strength. What do you have left? There would be nothing. Who would find Shioda interesting or inspiring in the least? No one.

Now we see people doing this flowery spinning art they call aikido and when anyone questions its validity, the practitioners cannot prove it. They have to tell you a long (and usually very fanciful) story about how great Morihei Ueshiba was. Or maybe they'll show you a video clip of him throwing people everywhere with the very internal strength that they don't have and which they have labeled "power hungry" or "badass". But take those elements out of the videos and what's left? It wouldn't even impress the people who are doing the flowery philosophical modern dance kind of thing in hakama.

It's really unfortunate when people try to edit history. Living where you do, you must have heard many people explain that the Civil War was not fought over slavery. Even when the various states' proclamations of secession specifically cite threats to their rights to hold slaves as a prime motivation for secession, these people continue to preach that slavery was not a motivation. That kind of lie (or mistaught history) has to be confronted.

And so it is, for me, with aikido.

I'd much rather go to a dojo and encounter someone who is far too strong and centered for me to move them than to go where everyone falls when I just turn my head.

So I accept your criticisms and I stand by my own.

Best to you.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
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Old 01-26-2011, 07:15 AM   #121
phitruong
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

Quote:
Keith Gates wrote: View Post
Again similar lines:

"Aikido is the marvelous functioning of kototama [cosmic vibrations] and misogi [purification of body and mind]"

Source: The Heart of Aikido, The Philosophy of Takamusu Aiki, Morihei Ueshiba.
thought i throw out some information for thought. Gleason sensei has written a book or so about kotadama and misogi. i believed he has been training IS with Dan Harden who probably sing off-key most of the time and believed misogi involved beer chugging (now i am going to hide from dan).
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Old 01-26-2011, 07:20 AM   #122
gates
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
thought i throw out some information for thought. Gleason sensei has written a book or so about kotadama and misogi. i believed he has been training IS with Dan Harden who probably sing off-key most of the time and believed misogi involved beer chugging (now i am going to hide from dan).
There are some obvious and interesting links between the Kototama Principle and IS. Gleason's kototama publications are on my list, once I have read what I have got.

Keith

Enjoy the journey
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Old 01-26-2011, 07:54 AM   #123
gregstec
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

Quote:
Keith Gates wrote: View Post
There are some obvious and interesting links between the Kototama Principle and IS. Gleason's kototama publications are on my list, once I have read what I have got.

Keith
Interesting point - IMO, most people focus on the spiritual aspect of Kototama. However, If you strip away that spiritual wrapper, what is left is a very physical internal vibration that is set up in the body when the Kototama is recited. Now take your mental intent and direct that vibration to different parts of your body. This does two things: 1) it gives you mental awareness of areas of the body your mind normally does not visit, and 2) the vibration internally exercises those areas you take it to. Just a thought to consider

Greg
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Old 01-26-2011, 07:59 AM   #124
jonreading
 
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

As an aside...

I used to get up in arms when I saw someone teaching bad aikido or passing bad information about aikido. As I studied aikido history and the history of other arts something started popping out to me... O'Sensei and some of the other early shihan cut things from the core curriculum of Aikido but they made references and left a path for others to find that stuff if you looked hard enough. I think in some regard they did this to protect the art; if you don't have the motivation, you don't get the goods. This thinking allowed me to relax somewhat when I hear the "there is no..." arguments.

You don't believe in internal power. Fine. It doesn't exist.
You don't believe in striking in aikido. Fine. There is no striking in aikido.
You don't believe in weapons in akido. Fine. There are no weapons in aikido.

I think the question for those of use who believe in internal power is why do we feel its important to our larger training, and how do we incorporate it into our training. Do we need an expert to host a seminar to get that information, can we incorporate training exercises in our class time, etc.

The larger fear that exists is that the number of have-nots will exceed the number of haves and force the haves to the fringe of the art. If this happens, aikido will undergoe a huge shedding of practicioners who understand the art and leave behind the shell of practioners who will transform aikido into a modern exercise. Internal strength is one of those lost components of aikido and that makes the have-nots nervous because they are ignorant of it and they are not motivated to learn more about it. I believe this is a similar modality to how aikido pushed the knowledge of and use of atemi to the fringe of aikido.

Last edited by jonreading : 01-26-2011 at 08:02 AM.
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Old 01-26-2011, 08:08 AM   #125
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

Hi Keith,

Quote:
Keith Gates wrote: View Post
My pleasure;
Thanks.

Leaving aside the possibility of an exercise of ideology in the translator's work (which I'm not prepared to adress properly), have you considered that for standing on Ame-no-ukihashi dancing the Kagura-mai while praying for a great love of all nations of the world, etc., a great degree of IS developement is not only required but essential?

What if IS developement, the psycho-physical changes it provides, what allows a person with a cosmology/set of religious-spiritual beliefs like the ones O Sensei espoused consider himself not the ultimate badass but the ultimate shaman?

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