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Old 01-17-2011, 10:00 PM   #1
InternalPowerSac
Dojo: Neijia
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Training Paradigms and Science

http://internalpowersac.blogspot.com...-training.html

Here are some more thoughts on my training paradigm and I would appreciate all input. I imagine this is not a typical perspective and my blog has many links embedded as usual.

Erick, thank you for posting that information in the other thread. I will study it more. I must confess that like all skills my math is one that I have not used often and honestly didn't develop as much as I would now like and has thus waned over the years. I have been interested in architecture for a long time though and drafting and structural engineering was a class I took in high school which I greatly enjoyed and researched further in my own time.

One thing I have been thinking about was your assertion of technique practice frequency. I have been pondering the different effects of varying frequencies, measuring intervals, and observing uke response. Unfortunately I don't have a training partner at the moment as I cannot afford to pay for a dojo. I think by the appearance of some of the training techniques in aikido that many would benefit from learning silk reeling and push hands as there is much overlap.

I must admit that my intellectual understanding probably surpasses my current training due to the condition of my body and current lack of partner(s) but I have yet to see anything that doesn't quite jive yet. I'm sure the details must be worked out and stumbling blocks will appear as I think more.

And here's the statement that really triggered my thoughts on much of this.

http://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.p...t&sd=a#p183138

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Old 01-17-2011, 10:53 PM   #2
Erick Mead
 
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Re: Training Paradigms and Science

Quote:
Matt Parsons wrote: View Post
http://internalpowersac.blogspot.com...-training.html

Here are some more thoughts on my training paradigm and I would appreciate all input.

Erick, thank you for posting that information in the other thread. I will study it more. I must confess that like all skills my math is one that I have not used often and honestly didn't develop as much as I would now like and has thus waned over the years. I have been interested in architecture for a long time though and drafting and structural engineering was a class I took in high school which I greatly enjoyed and researched further in my own time.
Then we are not so far apart -- It is much more correct structural and dynamic models that allow intuition to function and seek practical insights. The closer they come to visualization or describing qualities of sensation -- the more useful. However, I struggle with the maths and geometries to make sure I am not simply making a "just-so" story to replace the "just-so" story I started with. YMMV.

Since the loaded images are not yet vetted by Jun, I uploaded them:



You can apply the spheres in looking at the action of the body acting as a whole -- or to two bodies acting as a whole -- or to each segment of your body acting in isolation. Essentially, the poles of the spheres are at any discontinuity in the the frame, creases in the "suit", or what have you, and they can be considered as a chain of such spherical actions (formed of these shear "windings"), and connected at the poles like a beaded chain.

Wind them and these discontinuities begin to reduce -- the spheres get larger, and fewer, as they fold into one another and double and double again, like twisting links in a chain, causes its links (spheres) to fold up with one another. The chain gets fatter, and shortens at the same time -- approaching a sphere in the limit, and becoming stiffer and less flexible. The larger the sphere of action the more cohesive the structural response and less overt motion.

The smaller and more multiple the spheres of action the more mobile and dynamic -- like the beaded chain. That gets you the multiple pendulum action of the Lissajous curve -- and I think the relationship is clear visually, but is just as robust mathematically and mechanically:



Quote:
Matt Parsons wrote: View Post
One thing I have been thinking about was your assertion of technique practice frequency. I have been pondering the different effects of varying frequencies, measuring intervals, and observing uke response. Unfortunately I don't have a training partner at the moment as I cannot afford to pay for a dojo. I think by the appearance of some of the training techniques in aikido that many would benefit from learning silk reeling and push hands as there is much overlap.
very much so. I did some of my most helpful work in just solo shadowboxing and weapons work while on several naval deployments. I treated it like solo chess. It forced me to move while thinking imaginatively or think while moving imaginatively -- and that began to form the rudiments of what I have been working out since.

"Liminality" has interesting resonance with the aikido concept of takemusu the spontaneous birth of martial techniques in the moment of entry into connection with the attacker.

Last edited by Erick Mead : 01-17-2011 at 10:56 PM.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 01-18-2011, 09:35 AM   #3
InternalPowerSac
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Re: Training Paradigms and Science

Erick,

Thank you very much for your reply. I think your spherical diagrams are possibly a good reason for the following difference in body usage Chen Yi Ren and Zhang Chang Xin of liuhebafa. The description of Paul Roberts' body usage is very interesting and triggers consideration about their Five Hearts theory which I think I've linked to in the past. I think their Six Harmonies may be very similar to my three spheres visualization with the limbs added.

http://www.liuhebafachuan.com/Liuheb...in%20Japan.pdf

I will have to investigate the mathematics of of these things more deeply and see how such things apply to practice and one's training partner of both greater and lesser skill than oneself is important. Dan Harden talks about the importance of having trained partners that are acting in a real, resistant way and John Wang of combat shuai jiao speaks much the same way on Rum Soaked Fist. I like John's blindered focus on combat application. Training with people of different levels of skill and resistance will expose you to different fighting tempos (Erick and I have been talking of frequency, same thing), skills usage, the strategies involved to utilize those skills, and will allow one to develop one's thoughts and tactics. This is why Wang Xiangzhai of Yiquan fought and learned from so many people.

So it is with spiritual, emotional, and intellectual discussion with others and partner training. The Sufis have a term for it that escapes my brain at this time as I have not had to use Farsi in nearly four years but Rumi has spoken of the term as a connection most like love. The sama ceremony of the Sufis reminds me very much of what we try to achieve in martial arts in watching the Sufi's surrender to movement whilst whirling we can learn much. There is overlap between sponataneous martial movement, spontaneous spiritual movement, and spontaneous healing movement in many traditions.

http://qi-journal.com/Qigong.asp?-To...chID=QigongFAQ

http://www.qi-journal.com/Qigong.asp...earchID=Jahnke

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjSig4DxU_M

http://being.publicradio.org/program...ssionguide.pdf

http://www.qi-journal.com/Qigong.asp...earchID=Jahnke

Erick do you mind if I quote this discussion on my blog? Or if you would be so kind as to post your thoughts in the comments section I would be greatly appreciative.

For those that have been highly critical of meditative origination of martial arts I hope I have provided enough evidence of overlap between systems so one sees that it is not merely an overlap of of culture but also physiological process as well as mental state and similar training paradigms. The idea of one of these monks with former martial experience formulating practice paradigms from dreams is completely valid as dreaming meditation is a very deep practice in the Taoist spiritual circles. Also for those that were dismissive of Erick's assertion that we consider the effects of water as the human body is not water must please research more. This very recent article is quite thought provoking to the efficiency of movement and its effect at a cellular level when we consider tensegrity and integrins as well.

http://www.pnas.org/content/106/34/1...5-9d68d457b282

http://student.biology.arizona.edu/h...tro/intro2.htm

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Old 01-18-2011, 09:58 AM   #4
InternalPowerSac
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Re: Training Paradigms and Science

One of my next thought projects is addressing kai/he more thoroughly. Rotational and directional aspects of the three spheres visualization, torsional effects, frequency, and how it applies to one's limbs as well.

This thread on Rum Soaked Fist was very interesting to me and I will have to watch the linked video more critically. Dan Harden's thoughts were particularly thought compelling as usual.

http://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&p=90197

I also think Yiquan and Liuhebafa's eyes training comes into the three spheres thing too in that the optic nerves cross to different sides of the brain and Tom Myers notes in Anatomy Trains that most people have an unconscios trigger of their suboccipital muscles when they move their eyes. Training conscious rotation of the third sphere can be achieved through systematic training of eyes movement, head movement, and intent. This training my also tie into their Five Hearts theory as well in that the occiput is the focal point of the anatomic area which is responsible for vertical and rotational movement of the head. I speak of some of this movement a bit in one of my blog posts.

http://internalpowersac.blogspot.com...n-all-odd.html

I would really like to see footage of He Jinbao performing Xei Peigi's Snake style as I believe it may be enlightening.

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Old 01-18-2011, 01:24 PM   #5
InternalPowerSac
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Re: Training Paradigms and Science

Ooh some more clarification.

http://internalpowersac.blogspot.com...-function.html

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