Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-14-2010, 10:49 PM   #1
Robert _DeMatteo
Dojo: Woburn Aikikai
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2
United_States
Offline
Doubts of Aikido answered with other arts

This is my first time posting on this forum, but I have been a member for a few years.

About a year into my training I began having doubts about the martial aspects of Aikido. I wasn't sure if it was effective or if it would work in a real fight. I encountered this question in many different threads here, and the answer always seemed to be "try another art for a while, learn how to fight, then you'll understand Aikido."

I ended up leaving Aikido, and after a few years of training in more "fighting" based arts, I wanted to let others who are doubting Aikido know that this advice is completely accurate.

What I have realized is that the reasons I was doubting Aikido (a focus on not hurting Uke, and on love/harmony, etc) are what makes Aikido so great as a martial art and (more importantly) as a life philosophy.

Anyway, I just wanted to share my new perspective with people I knew would appreciate it.

Good training!
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2010, 04:20 AM   #2
Eva Antonia
Dojo: CERIA
Location: Brussels
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 212
Belgium
Offline
Re: Doubts of Aikido answered with other arts

Dear Robert,

this is interesting to read! I always play with the thought that I should get to learn some other martial arts (at least dabble a bit with) to know how to attack better and how to defend differently, obviously without leaving aikido for that - but I always postpone thinking that I should first get a bit better in aikido so that it would make sense...

Thanks for sharing your experience!

Best regardsm

Eva
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2010, 08:20 AM   #3
Nick P.
 
Nick P.'s Avatar
Dojo: Sukagawa Aikido Club of Montreal
Location: Montreal
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 642
Offline
Re: Doubts of Aikido answered with other arts

I came to the same conclusion, but from another route; I began studying Tae Kwon Do as a (much) young(er) adult.
It occurred to me that the ability to injure or cripple another human being was not a skill set I wanted to develope. I was good, I was told, but certainly did not feel good about the pain it inflicted on others.

Years later I was introduced to Aikido, and now I am preparing for my sandan exam in January.

There are times where I miss unbridled aggression of TKD, but those periods are fleeting and always pass.

There are no wrong choices, just poor parings of desires and paths chosen.

  Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2010, 11:01 AM   #4
ChrisHein
 
ChrisHein's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Fresno
Location: Fresno , CA
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,645
United_States
Offline
Re: Doubts of Aikido answered with other arts

Quote:
Robert DeMatteo wrote: View Post

What I have realized is that the reasons I was doubting Aikido (a focus on not hurting Uke, and on love/harmony, etc) are what makes Aikido so great as a martial art and (more importantly) as a life philosophy.
I was wondering if you could say a little more about what you mean here?

I feel that physical conflict, by it's very nature involves someone getting hurt. Aikido, a style of studying physical conflict, is not immune to this fact.

When we train, we study this. In the training we also get hurt ourselves and see others hurt. We learn that physical conflict is not a fantasy, but in truth, a very real problem. A problem that can most often be solved through other means. This can be learned through any kind of marital arts training, for this is the nature of martial arts training.

Are you saying that by studying Aikido, you will not have to hurt someone if you were to get into a physical confrontation?

  Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2010, 03:14 PM   #5
bkedelen
 
bkedelen's Avatar
Dojo: Boulder Aikikai
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 449
United_States
Offline
Re: Doubts of Aikido answered with other arts

That is why with the fullness of time bullshido wound up making fun of every martial art. They all have things that are or seem silly, and everything that is truly a scam is (usually) perpetrated by an individual, not an art as a whole. Even people to who supposedly go to "real" arts to learn to "real" fighting often fail spectacularly, for example UFC fighters who are regularly training with famous boxing or Muay Thai teachers but cannot manage to throw a straight punch in the octagon.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2010, 03:25 PM   #6
Marc Abrams
Dojo: Aikido Arts of Shin Budo Kai/ Bedford Hills, New York
Location: New York
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,302
United_States
Offline
Re: Doubts of Aikido answered with other arts

Quote:
Benjamin Edelen wrote: View Post
That is why with the fullness of time bullshido wound up making fun of every martial art. They all have things that are or seem silly, and everything that is truly a scam is (usually) perpetrated by an individual, not an art as a whole. Even people to who supposedly go to "real" arts to learn to "real" fighting often fail spectacularly, for example UFC fighters who are regularly training with famous boxing or Muay Thai teachers but cannot manage to throw a straight punch in the octagon.
Benjamin:

Who was it who said "do not say that Aikido does not work; say that your Aikido does not work... Mine works just fine for me..."

Someone close by you?

Marc Abrams
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2010, 04:38 PM   #7
Anjisan
Dojo: Aikido of Madison
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 188
United_States
Offline
Do symbol Re: Doubts of Aikido answered with other arts

Quote:
Nick Pittson wrote: View Post
I came to the same conclusion, but from another route; I began studying Tae Kwon Do as a (much) young(er) adult.
It occurred to me that the ability to injure or cripple another human being was not a skill set I wanted to develope. I was good, I was told, but certainly did not feel good about the pain it inflicted on others.

Years later I was introduced to Aikido, and now I am preparing for my sandan exam in January.

There are times where I miss unbridled aggression of TKD, but those periods are fleeting and always pass.

There are no wrong choices, just poor parings of desires and paths chosen.
I share a similar history as far as TKD and I am preparing for my Sandan exam-although I am going to wait until next summer or Autumn to test. I guess that I have chosen the path to explore the full range of techniques. The thought being that if I want to not hurt people and be able to stop violence then I have to be able to hurt people and cause violence so I can truly make a real choice NOT to do harm.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2010, 06:36 PM   #8
bkedelen
 
bkedelen's Avatar
Dojo: Boulder Aikikai
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 449
United_States
Offline
Re: Doubts of Aikido answered with other arts

Marc, I think you misunderstood my post. I was just pointing out that all arts seem sometimes silly to their own practitioners, and that some time with other arts shows goes a long way toward revealing what is great about Aikido.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2010, 08:48 PM   #9
Erick Mead
 
Erick Mead's Avatar
Dojo: Big Green Drum (W. Florida Aikikai)
Location: West Florida
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,568
United_States
Offline
Re: Doubts of Aikido answered with other arts

Quote:
Chris Hein wrote: View Post
I was wondering if you could say a little more about what you mean here?

I feel that physical conflict, by it's very nature involves someone getting hurt. Aikido, a style of studying physical conflict, is not immune to this fact.

When we train, we study this. In the training we also get hurt ourselves and see others hurt. We learn that physical conflict is not a fantasy, but in truth, a very real problem. A problem that can most often be solved through other means. This can be learned through any kind of marital arts training, for this is the nature of martial arts training.

Are you saying that by studying Aikido, you will not have to hurt someone if you were to get into a physical confrontation?
"Hurt" is not the issue, as I see it. I've been hurt riding a bike, I've been hurt training in aikido. Football players receive far more life-long lasting injury than most martial artists, not even considering aikido.

So aikido is violent and a study of violent conduct. What aikido is not -- and is four-square against -- is the mind and soul of violence. It is a study of how to conduct oneself in violent action without a mind of violence. This far Zen in martial training goes. But Aikido goes to a place nearly Christian in concept -- to the point of loving the enemy even as as we engage his violence actively.

Quote:
You have heard that it was said to them of old: Thou shalt not kill. And whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment. But I say to you, that whosoever is angry with his brother, shall be in danger of the judgment. Matt. 5:21-22
Aikido is not about avoiding the violence -- we are all fundamentally violent. Anyone who says otherwise is lying first to himself. It is about transfiguring the violence within ourselves in the midst of violence all around us -- physical and otherwise. The physical principles of aiki and the psychological/spiritual goals of aikido are integrated toward that end.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2010, 07:35 AM   #10
Marc Abrams
Dojo: Aikido Arts of Shin Budo Kai/ Bedford Hills, New York
Location: New York
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,302
United_States
Offline
Re: Doubts of Aikido answered with other arts

Quote:
Benjamin Edelen wrote: View Post
Marc, I think you misunderstood my post. I was just pointing out that all arts seem sometimes silly to their own practitioners, and that some time with other arts shows goes a long way toward revealing what is great about Aikido.
Benjamin:

I did understand your post! I always get a chuckle when these issues come us. Your teacher's comment has always been the first one that comes to my mind. I think that the silliness tends to come in when we take what we are doing out of context for what we are really doing and why.

Regards,

marc abrams
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2010, 08:19 AM   #11
phitruong
Dojo: Charlotte Aikikai Agatsu Dojo
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,896
United_States
Offline
Re: Doubts of Aikido answered with other arts

something to consider. many of the old timers who came to learn under Ueshiba were ranked in other martial arts. Ikeda sensei was a judoka before he encountered Saotome sensei.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2010, 06:13 PM   #12
Amassus
 
Amassus's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Musubi Ryu/ Yoshin Wadokan
Location: Hamilton
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 306
New Zealand
Offline
Re: Doubts of Aikido answered with other arts

FWIW
I studied a composite style of kung fu and Zen do kai karate as a teenager and then found aikido many years later. Aikido as a martial art is great. However I do get concerned over some training methodologies out there. All in all, aikido provides a wholistic approach to the individual that I didn't find in the striking arts. By this I mean, I had to face my fears on and off the mat during my aikido training and not hide behind being fast or strong as I could do when I was younger in the other martial art I tried.

I hope that makes sense.

Dean.

"flows like water, reflects like a mirror, and responds like an echo." Chaung-tse
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2010, 07:55 PM   #13
Marie Noelle Fequiere
 
Marie Noelle Fequiere's Avatar
Dojo: Atibon Aikido, Port Au Prince, Haiti
Location: Port au Prince
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 295
Haiti
Offline
Re: Doubts of Aikido answered with other arts

I trained in Shotokan before trying Aikido. In the beginning, Aikido thechnique left me extremely frustrated. I thought they were unnecessarily complicated. Now that I am starting to improve, I understand the reason for all these complications: for example, try punching in the solar plexus of someone wearing a bullet proof vest, and they won't even notice.
I am still practicing my Shotokan kata, but I do not regret exploring another dimension in fighting. After all, muggers tend to go after smaller and weaker victims.
Every martial art is special in its own way. I often worry that my lack of coordination will hamper my reactions if I am attacked on the street. But I know I'd better work on all these complications, in case my attacker wears a bullet proof vest.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2010, 09:25 PM   #14
Robert _DeMatteo
Dojo: Woburn Aikikai
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2
United_States
Offline
Re: Doubts of Aikido answered with other arts

Quote:
Chris Hein wrote: View Post
Are you saying that by studying Aikido, you will not have to hurt someone if you were to get into a physical confrontation?
Absolutely not. I have no illusions about the nature of physical conflict, and I don't believe Aikido will turn me into a superhero (though that would be pretty cool ). However, what I have realized is that I do not study martial arts to become a "killing machine" and the other arts I studied had too much of an emphasis on hurting the opponent. While I agree that hurting someone is inevitable in a physical conflict, there is a big difference between a nikkyo pin and breaking someone's arm from the start.

Most importantly I realized that the reasons I was drawn to Aikido in the first place hadn't changed and that it was foolish to justify a martial art solely by its lethality. A decent handgun would be cheaper if that were all I was interested in...
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2010, 12:41 PM   #15
Don Nordin
Dojo: Aikibudokan Houston TX
Location: Houston Texas
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 41
United_States
Offline
Re: Doubts of Aikido answered with other arts

Quote:
"Most importantly I realized that the reasons I was drawn to Aikido in the first place hadn't changed and that it was foolish to justify a martial art solely by its lethality. A decent handgun would be cheaper if that were all I was interested in..."
Therein is the key for me. I started boxing when 14, I never did super well at it, but I messed with it on an off until I was in my 20's. But there was always something missing. For me it is the wholistic approach that Aikido takes with regards conflict. Avoid the conflict when you can, move out of the way and redirect the agression if you are attacked. Sure there are numerous ways an Aikido play can really hurt someone if they want t, but the beauty of the art is that you do not have to damage/kill the person to stop the conflict.

All that said I have been studying Aikido for about 18 months, I like to think that I could defend myself using Aikido but there is still alot of residual programming in my head that needs to be written over before I think I would be effective without resorting to "old tricks"
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2010, 12:43 AM   #16
Aikibu
Dojo: West Wind Dojo Santa Monica California
Location: Malibu, California
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,295
United_States
Offline
Re: Doubts of Aikido answered with other arts

It's what you do with your "doubts" that determines what kind of Aikido you will end up with..."Doubting" elements of your practice can be a touchstone for growth or an excuse...That choice is up to you.

William Hazen
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2010, 05:12 PM   #17
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,058
United_States
Offline
Re: Doubts of Aikido answered with other arts

Quote:
Marie Noelle Fequiere wrote: View Post
I trained in Shotokan before trying Aikido. In the beginning, Aikido thechnique left me extremely frustrated. I thought they were unnecessarily complicated. Now that I am starting to improve, I understand the reason for all these complications: for example, try punching in the solar plexus of someone wearing a bullet proof vest, and they won't even notice.
Same background and similar experience here. Aikido made absolutely no sense to me at first, and the only reason why I didn't get frustrated was because I consciously decided to train without judging and without trying to figure it out. That's one of the great things that I've experienced in martial arts: the experience of setting aside the need to understand everything up front, and to just practice in order to obtain the experiences that provide a framework for the understanding.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2010, 05:30 PM   #18
RED
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 909
United_States
Offline
Re: Doubts of Aikido answered with other arts

I had no idea what Aikido was when I started. I assumed that the people in the funny skirts knew more about their funny skirt art than I did. So, I wasn't really in a position to judge their knowledge of their own funny skirt art at that time.

MM
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2010, 07:07 PM   #19
Anthony Loeppert
Dojo: Aikido of Del Mar
Location: San Diego, CA
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 155
United_States
Offline
Re: Doubts of Aikido answered with other arts

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Aikido made absolutely no sense to me at first, and the only reason why I didn't get frustrated was because I consciously decided to train without judging and without trying to figure it out.
Yes, this was/is my attitude as well, trust the process even if you don't understand it... how could an aikido beginner really understand anyway. Now 2.5 years in, when I reflect back it is an amazing journey of discovery all because I showed up at class (mostly) regularly and listened with an open mind and tried... and keep trying.

I don't know what rank I'll plateau at but I'm committed to keep doing it until it is no longer interesting and fun, and given that it is only getting more interesting and fun... I guess it will be some time. 3rd kyu yoshinkan at the moment.

Last edited by Anthony Loeppert : 12-18-2010 at 07:10 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2010, 08:14 PM   #20
Janet Rosen
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Janet Rosen's Avatar
Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,255
Offline
Re: Doubts of Aikido answered with other arts

LOL ... I was the first student at a new dojo and it was pre-YouTube era of slow dialup modems so I couldn't go online for videos; result was it was months before I actually saw people "doing aikido" - talk about suspending judgment and just training :-)

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Yoshinkai - Beyond the "Hard Style" Label Susan Dalton Columns 8 11-16-2011 07:53 AM
Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 18 Peter Goldsbury Columns 187 09-08-2011 03:41 PM
Baseline skillset eyrie Non-Aikido Martial Traditions 1633 05-23-2008 02:35 PM
Mixing Aikido with other martial arts Guilty Spark General 146 05-04-2008 11:10 AM
For Ted Ehara - Boundary of your aikido? billybob General 123 12-18-2006 05:52 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:02 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2016 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2016 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate