Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-22-2010, 06:50 AM   #76
Hellis
Dojo: Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido
Location: Bracknell
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 599
England
Offline
Re: Tadashi Abe

Jamie

I have no knowledge of Abe Sensei being involved in Aikido after the incident on his `final` visit to Hombu in 1967...........

Tadashi Abe Sensei demonstrating push-ups on the back of the wrists.......Have you seen this collection of pages from those books he wrote in the 1950s in France ? I had intended to add them myself when I have the time, I am pleased that someone has done it for me.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/7307718/Ai...-Et-2-Complets

Henry

Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/

Last edited by Hellis : 12-22-2010 at 06:52 AM. Reason: error
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2010, 07:40 AM   #77
Demetrio Cereijo
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,913
Spain
Offline
Re: Tadashi Abe

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Jamie

I have no knowledge of Abe Sensei being involved in Aikido after the incident on his `final` visit to Hombu in 1967...........

Tadashi Abe Sensei demonstrating push-ups on the back of the wrists.......
Those are not push-ups.

  Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2010, 04:24 PM   #78
Michael Douglas
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 402
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Tadashi Abe

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
....Have you seen this collection of pages from those books he wrote in the 1950s in France ? I had intended to add them myself when I have the time, I am pleased that someone has done it for me.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/7307718/Ai...-Et-2-Complets
Thanks for the great link!

Its official : Aiki-do includes Mule kick and spinning chop!
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2010, 04:37 PM   #79
jamie yugawa
 
jamie yugawa's Avatar
Location: Hilo
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 182
United_States
Offline
Re: Tadashi Abe

Quote:
Tadashi Abe Sensei demonstrating push-ups on the back of the wrists.......Have you seen this collection of pages from those books he wrote in the 1950s in France ? I had intended to add them myself when I have the time, I am pleased that someone has done it for me.
[url]http://www.scribd.com/doc/7307718/Ai...-Et-2-Complets[/url
I particularly like the hammer fist to back of the head!!! man they used to play for keeps back the day !!
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2010, 04:46 PM   #80
Hellis
Dojo: Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido
Location: Bracknell
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 599
England
Offline
Re: Tadashi Abe

Quote:
Jamie Yugawa wrote: View Post
I particularly like the hammer fist to back of the head!!! man they used to play for keeps back the day !!
Jamie

Tadashi Abe Sensei could stop you by the look on his face, they called him the smiling Aikidoka, it was not a smile, more a mask.
I have trained with many of the early Budo masters , he was the hardest of them all.... The Aikido push-ups, these were done in every session, sometimes with someone on your back......

Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2010, 10:34 AM   #81
David Orange
Dojo: Aozora Dojo
Location: Birmingham, AL
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,508
United_States
Offline
Re: Tadashi Abe

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Tadashi Abe Sensei could stop you by the look on his face, they called him the smiling Aikidoka, it was not a smile, more a mask.
I have trained with many of the early Budo masters , he was the hardest of them all.... The Aikido push-ups, these were done in every session, sometimes with someone on your back......
You mentioned Mochizuki Sensei's comment on Abe's face earlier.

Would you care to elaborate on that? Do you think training with Ueshiba made Abe a better man, or worse? Or had some other effect?

Since reading Mochizuki Sensei's comments about Abe, I've often wondered about him.

Thanks. And Merry Christmas!

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2010, 10:36 AM   #82
David Orange
Dojo: Aozora Dojo
Location: Birmingham, AL
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,508
United_States
Offline
Re: Tadashi Abe

Quote:
Michael Douglas wrote: View Post
Thanks for the great link!

Its official : Aiki-do includes Mule kick and spinning chop!
He may have gotten that idea from his encounter with Mochizuki Sensei...

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2010, 11:14 AM   #83
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,155
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Tadashi Abe

Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote: View Post
Hello Henry,

Yes, you are right. I misread Stan's reference. It was Abbe Kenshiro Sensei who invited Tadashi Abe to the UK, not Europe. My mistake.

PAG
Hi Peter,
Merry Xmas!! Genki deska?? As a point of interest it was also Abbe Sensei who was instrumental in arranging for Chiba Sensei to come to the U.K. He was sponsored by Mr Logan who lived in the N.East of England [Tynemouth].Chiba Sensei spent time in Sunderland YMCA before going down to London Tempukan.
This was the period of guys like John Hamilton , Ron Myers Pat Butler, Stuart Appleby , Tommy Pickering and Lee Crow in the N.E. I moved to N/Cle in the 70s and had some contact with these guys.Mr Lockyear MBE was also training away then .
These were good times , sad to say , it all went downhill in after 1976.
Cheers, Joe.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2010, 11:17 AM   #84
David Orange
Dojo: Aozora Dojo
Location: Birmingham, AL
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,508
United_States
Offline
Re: Tadashi Abe

Quote:
Graham Jenkins wrote: View Post
I read a very good book about that battleship, by the way, that might interest you:

Requiem for Battleship "Yamato"
One of the most incredible books I ever read on Japan in WWII was Samurai by Saburo Sakai, the top fighter ace in Japan. He had learned to fly gliders in middle school and was a champion at that, so they snatched him up as soon as he was old enough and put him into the air force or whoever ran the fighter planes. He soon became an ace and he kept fighting when he had an eye shot out. And then they told him they were making him a kamikaze. Of course, he had his own personal human feelings, but I think he was really beyond fear of death at that point. But he became incredibly angry at the waste of resources by the Japanese military: he was not only highly trained and their most effective fighter pilot, but he saw himself as an invaluable resource for younger pilots. He could pass on knowledge that no one else had. But they sadi, "Nah, just go crash into a ship. We don't need what you got."

Incredibly, Sakai survived at least two kamikaze missions as well as all his aerial combats. An incredible story.

In that, he lists the horrific abuses the Japanese military inflicted on their own personnel, driving many to suicide in the barracks. And along the same line is The Two Lives of Jim Yoshida, apparently the true story of an American Japanese from Seattle, who goes to Japan with his mother to visit relatives just before the outbreak of the war. Despite Yoshida's being American and speaking no Japanese, he is conscripted into the Army and sent to China. He somehow survives the whole war, but it's an awful story.

All this just to add some further inside views on how the war affected all the Japanese and most everyone else in the world.

Best to all.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2010, 12:13 PM   #85
David Orange
Dojo: Aozora Dojo
Location: Birmingham, AL
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,508
United_States
Offline
Re: Tadashi Abe

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Not wishing to upset our `volunteer ` moderator, the names of both Tadashi Abe Sensei and Kenshiro Abbe Sensei ( Abe ) are inextricably linked, they were both officers in the Japanese Imperial Army, they were also great friends, they had both studied with OSensei, Abe Sensei was the Aikido pioneer to Europe, Abbe Sensei was the Aikido pioneer who brought Aikido to Britain. They would invite each other across the channel on many occasions. They did great things together. Together these two `` gentlemen `` were true ambassdors of the Japanese people.
That's good to hear. Tadashi Abe has so many "intense" stories about him, it's hard to believe that could be the only side of him...

And my hat's off to you to have been studying with him the year I was born. This is a fascinating thread.

Best wishes.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2010, 01:01 PM   #86
jamie yugawa
 
jamie yugawa's Avatar
Location: Hilo
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 182
United_States
Offline
Re: Tadashi Abe

Quote:
That's good to hear. Tadashi Abe has so many "intense" stories about him, it's hard to believe that could be the only side of him...

And my hat's off to you to have been studying with him the year I was born. This is a fascinating thread.
I agree with you also. I am truly fascinated by Aikido history in general, but this has been very informative with great contributions from the European Aikido community. I hope others have great stories about Tadashi Abe Sensei.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2010, 02:49 PM   #87
Hellis
Dojo: Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido
Location: Bracknell
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 599
England
Offline
Re: Tadashi Abe

Quote:
David Orange wrote: View Post
You mentioned Mochizuki Sensei's comment on Abe's face earlier.

Would you care to elaborate on that? Do you think training with Ueshiba made Abe a better man, or worse? Or had some other effect?

Since reading Mochizuki Sensei's comments about Abe, I've often wondered about him.

Thanks. And Merry Christmas!

David
Mochizuki described Tadashi Abe as having an evil face. He did have a look that whilst appearing to smile, could at the same time instill a sense of fear.
I would say he was a better man for being with OSensei. He was very loyal to OSensei, when his friend Tohei was planning to leave OSensei, Tadashi Abe was prepared to do some serious harm to Tohei. Earlier this year Chiba Sensei spoke of the time he had to restrain Abe Sensei from doing such a thing.
All my early teachers - Kenshiro Abbe - Masahilo Nakazono - Masamichi Noro - TK Chiba, they all admired and respected Abe Sensei as a man and a warrior.

Best wishes for 2011

Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2010, 10:19 AM   #88
Tony Wagstaffe
Location: Winchester
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,211
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Tadashi Abe

Henry,

I kinda get the impression that Tadashi Abe was an allright sort of bloke when the alcohol didn't get the better of him? Albeit he was a tough martial artist in the highest degree.....
It makes one wonder the effects WW2 had on the guy given the unimaginable crap that was going on at the time, what with that, and his personal upbringing......?
Was he ever physically vicious to you personally?
Or was it part and parcel of the training that was the "norm" in those days.....
I remember taking hard ukemi for my 1st teacher Bob Forrest Webb on a hard wooden stage for a demo for some farmers union out in the sticks one night, before I ever got my shodan.....
I was a bit black and blue but it never worried me as I thought it to be the "norm" and just got on with it seeing it as a challenge to be overcome.....
So when I hear that some teachers were severe, were they? Or is that "their version" of how budo should be endured.....?

Tony
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2010, 07:59 PM   #89
niall
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
niall's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 394
Japan
Offline
Re: Tadashi Abe

Francis Takahashi Sensei wrote a very interesting column this month called Winning vs. Not Losing. Andrew Bedford added a relevant quotation:

A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence.
Yukiyoshi Takamura


This is the interview with Yukiyoshi Takamura the quote was taken from: http://www.shinyokai.com/Takamura%20interview.pdf. The quote is on page 9 and in the very next paragraph on the same page Takamura Sensei says:

Quote:
Years ago I saw an aikido instructor named Tadashi Abe in France. He was a true warrior in every way. He was a great example of a man with martial spirit flaming in his belly while the spirit of harmony was visible in his eye. He was a real credit to Ueshiba Sensei's technical and spiritual legacy. He is 100% samurai!
I want to make a digression here about the surprising interconnections/nexuses in aikido and budo. If you check out the site with the interview http://www.shinyokai.com/home.htm you can see photos of Toby Threadgill who teaches Takamura ha Shindo Yoshin Ryu (TSYR) and who is a member of aikiweb. This week I saw links to a video of his battojutsu/iai and to an interview with him on a Spanish aikido forum http://www.aikiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3508. I noticed it particularly because the first technique was a reverse Zatoichi grip draw and I had done a blog post about Zatoichi a week or so earlier...

Last edited by niall : 12-26-2010 at 08:03 PM.

we can make our minds so like still water, and so live for a moment with a clearer, perhaps even with a fiercer life
w b yeats


aikiweb blog|wordpress blog
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2010, 10:23 PM   #90
Peter Goldsbury
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Peter Goldsbury's Avatar
Dojo: Hiroshima Kokusai Dojo
Location: Hiroshima, Japan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,001
Japan
Offline
Re: Tadashi Abe

Hello Joe,

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Hi Peter,
Merry Xmas!! Genki deska?? As a point of interest it was also Abbe Sensei who was instrumental in arranging for Chiba Sensei to come to the U.K. He was sponsored by Mr Logan who lived in the N.East of England [Tynemouth].Chiba Sensei spent time in Sunderland YMCA before going down to London Tempukan.
PAG. And the same to you, despite the weather. Here we (some non-aikido friends and I) celebrated Christmas on Dec 23, with a small dinner party. We had the final class of the year last night, with a couple of kyu grading tests and we have the dojo bonenkai tomorrow. Christmas is really commercial here and the main holiday time is New Year.
In my time the London dojo was the AGB, Aikikai of Great Britain, and we practised next to a bowling alley in Chiswick. I think this was in the very early 70s and I didn't meet any of the people outside London.

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
This was the period of guys like John Hamilton , Ron Myers Pat Butler, Stuart Appleby , Tommy Pickering and Lee Crow in the N.E. I moved to N/Cle in the 70s and had some contact with these guys.Mr Lockyear MBE was also training away then .
PAG. I remember Arthur--and yourself, of course, but this would have been after I came back from the US in 1975. Chiba Sensei had returned to Japan by then, but frequently visited the UK. I got to know him very well at that time and we talked mainly about the problems he was facing in Japan, with the Hombu Dojo. I had more or less decided to come to live here and these conversations were especially valuable. Of course, we talked a lot about the UK. It was the BAF then and I met some of Sensei's non-aikido supporters in London. The Norwegians had come by that time and we used to go to Tempukan to practise together.

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
These were good times, sad to say, it all went downhill in after 1976.
PAG. Well, yes, I agree. However, what goes around comes around. The aikido world has radically changed, even since that time, and many of these changes have been for the better. However, I think the Aikikai has been left struggling to keep up with the changes. There has been a maturation of aikido training outside Japan and I doubt whether the Japanese have fully understood what this means. Of course, the shihans who migrated to the US and Europe know this very well, but I have my doubts about the main players in Japan and especially in the Aikikai.

It is very hard to make judgments here, but I really believe that what happened to the Aikikai is a microcosm of what happened to Japan as a whole after the war. There was a general repudiation of the type of mindset that produced kamikaze pilots--and anachronisms like Tadashi Abe, who was as much an anachronism in his time as Sokaku Takeda was in his. However, the general repudiation was accompanied by a kind of nostalgia for the good things that were lost--but with a reluctance to distinguish clearly the good things from the bad. I can see this very clearly here in Hiroshima, which played a central role in this general repudiation of prewar values. The two shihans with whom I discussed this most, before they passed away, were Nobuyoshi Tamura and Seiichi Sugano.

The 'final incident' involving Tadashi Abe took place in 1967, right? Which was two years before O Sensei passed away and Kisshomaru became the second Doshu. If he were to appear now, in 2010, Mr Abe would probably burn the place down. Of course, he would be dismissed as an unfortunate relic of the past.

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Cheers, Joe.
All the best to you and yours for 2011.

PAG

Last edited by Peter Goldsbury : 12-26-2010 at 10:26 PM.

P A Goldsbury
_______________________
Hiroshima, Japan
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2010, 12:26 AM   #91
Toby Threadgill
Location: Evergreen, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 166
United_States
Offline
Re: Tadashi Abe

Quote:
Niall Matthews wrote: View Post
Francis Takahashi Sensei wrote a very interesting column this month called Winning vs. Not Losing. Andrew Bedford added a relevant quotation:

A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence.
Yukiyoshi Takamura


This is the interview with Yukiyoshi Takamura the quote was taken from: http://www.shinyokai.com/Takamura%20interview.pdf. The quote is on page 9 and in the very next paragraph on the same page Takamura Sensei says:

I want to make a digression here about the surprising interconnections/nexuses in aikido and budo. If you check out the site with the interview http://www.shinyokai.com/home.htm you can see photos of Toby Threadgill who teaches Takamura ha Shindo Yoshin Ryu (TSYR) and who is a member of aikiweb. This week I saw links to a video of his battojutsu/iai and to an interview with him on a Spanish aikido forum http://www.aikiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3508. I noticed it particularly because the first technique was a reverse Zatoichi grip draw and I had done a blog post about Zatoichi a week or so earlier...
Hello,

A little clarification might be in order as many people misinterpret Takamura sensei's writings from time to time.

On Tadashi Abe,

When Takamura sensei said Tadashi Abe had "harmony in his eyes" he's not referring the kind of peaceful or passive harmony most westerners equate with the term. To Takamura sensei "harmony" mean't mushin no shin (無心の心), a mind capable of manifesting absolute emotional detachment and mental discipline.

It's too bad Tadashi Abe is not revered more in the greater aikido community as he must have been quite a special man. As Takamura said, "A real credit to Ueshiba's legacy as a martial artist".

Toby Threadgill / TSYR
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2010, 02:48 AM   #92
Hellis
Dojo: Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido
Location: Bracknell
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 599
England
Offline
Re: Tadashi Abe

Hello Peter

This started my day off with a smile...........

PAG: If he were to appear now, in 2010, Mr Abe would probably burn the place down. Of course, he would be dismissed as an unfortunate relic of the past.

Best wishes for 2011

Henry
Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2010, 03:08 AM   #93
Hellis
Dojo: Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido
Location: Bracknell
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 599
England
Offline
Re: Tadashi Abe

Quote:
Jamie Yugawa wrote: View Post
What are the names of the books that Abe Sensei wrote?
Jamie

I have placed my books ``in care``.......from memory, the title is

" L' Aikido " ...........

Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2010, 04:10 AM   #94
Nicholas Eschenbruch
Dojo: TV Denzlingen
Location: Freiburg
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 308
Germany
Offline
Re: Tadashi Abe

FWIW, in the Nocquet lineage, we still practice a kata which was created by Tadashi Abe (who apparently believed that this was a sensible way to structure teaching for Europeans, and may have been influenced in this by Kawaishi Sensei, the founder of Judo in France). This kata was also taught by André Nocquet as integral part of his curriculum: it consists of the five katame waza, each in left/right hanmi and omote/ura version, in a sort of prescribed chain of movement, done either in tachiwaza or suwariwaza. It is presented for shodan/ nidan respectively. No, to my knowledge it is not on youtube, though if anyone wants to make sure I would start searching on the GHAAN website. (From what I hear, this kata actually creates occasional friction in French aikido because the other federations apparently believe there should be no such thing as an empty hand kata in aikido). I always think it's a shame we do not have a greater French participation here on aikiweb. Of those still teaching now, Claude Cebille, for one, was already practicing as a teenager in the 50s and may well remember Abe.

Last edited by Nicholas Eschenbruch : 12-27-2010 at 04:25 AM. Reason: Spelling etc.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2010, 04:31 AM   #95
Peter Goldsbury
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Peter Goldsbury's Avatar
Dojo: Hiroshima Kokusai Dojo
Location: Hiroshima, Japan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,001
Japan
Offline
Re: Tadashi Abe

Hello Henry,

Did Abe Tadashi Sensei ever talk to you about the role and responsibility of an uchi-deshi of O Sensei?

The context of this question is the fact that Chiba Sensei returned to Japan around 1974 (I believe), was clearly not welcome at the Aikikai Hombu, and left for the USA in the early 1980s.

The nub of the question (I think--I have not yet thought this through very carefully), concerns the responsibility of the uchi-deshi to protect or safeguard the Way, as established by the Master. I think this also relates to the idea of SHU-HA-RI.

The cases of Abe and Chiba are similar in the sense that they returned to Japan and the Hombu after a spell abroad, and were shocked to find that not only things had changed, but they were absolutely powerless to do anything about it.


All the very best to you for 2011.

PAG

P A Goldsbury
_______________________
Hiroshima, Japan
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2010, 04:36 AM   #96
justin
Location: swansea wales
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 249
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Tadashi Abe

sadly I have nothing to add to the thread, but felt I had to say what an excellent thread has to be one of my favorite threads of the year

Very interesting indeed.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2010, 04:41 AM   #97
Flintstone
Dojo: Wherever I happen to be
Location: Zaragoza
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 587
Spain
Offline
Re: Tadashi Abe

Quote:
Nicholas Eschenbruch wrote: View Post
This kata was also taught by André Nocquet as integral part of his curriculum: it consists of the five katame waza, each in left/right hanmi and omote/ura version, in a sort of prescribed chain of movement, done either in tachiwaza or suwariwaza. It is presented for shodan/ nidan respectively.
Looks like it's his archetypical presentation of the art. Wonder how that kata looks like, but I'm sure it is practical as can be. Could you provide some sort of description here? Thanks!
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2010, 05:06 AM   #98
Hellis
Dojo: Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido
Location: Bracknell
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 599
England
Offline
Re: Tadashi Abe

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
Henry,

I kinda get the impression that Tadashi Abe was an allright sort of bloke when the alcohol didn't get the better of him? Albeit he was a tough martial artist in the highest degree.....
It makes one wonder the effects WW2 had on the guy given the unimaginable crap that was going on at the time, what with that, and his personal upbringing......?
Was he ever physically vicious to you personally?
Or was it part and parcel of the training that was the "norm" in those days.....
I remember taking hard ukemi for my 1st teacher Bob Forrest Webb on a hard wooden stage for a demo for some farmers union out in the sticks one night, before I ever got my shodan.....
I was a bit black and blue but it never worried me as I thought it to be the "norm" and just got on with it seeing it as a challenge to be overcome.....
So when I hear that some teachers were severe, were they? Or is that "their version" of how budo should be endured.....?

Tony
Tony

Actually you make several valid points..

Yes, Tadashi Abe was a good man, loyal to OSensei, his country, and the Emperor…Loyalty to ones own country is a rare commodity in Britain these days.

I would imagine the war did leave its mark on those that took part on all sides…I know it had its effects on me as a child and my family.

No, he was never physically vicious to me or anyone else that I was aware of…When I began Aikido I knew full well what I was entering in to, ""a martial art"", not a bingo session or a pottery class. I expected it to be tough, it was !!…

A few months ago Chiba Sensei asked if I thought he was too hard on the dan grades when he made his first visit to the ` Hut Dojo`in 1967. He knew we were testing him, he responded, he thought that he may have hurt a couple of senior students, I explained that was no different to how we trained every night. Hard training was the norm..I explained that he left no injuries, he just smiled.

The early Budo teachers were hard, so were the students, we would have it no other way…

That is one of the problems with Aikido, if they find it hard ? why don't they join a bingo club, instead, they change Aikido to suit their plastic Samurai needs…here cometh the Aiki- bunny.

Henry
Henry Ellis
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2010, 05:25 AM   #99
Hellis
Dojo: Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido
Location: Bracknell
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 599
England
Offline
Re: Tadashi Abe

Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote: View Post
Hello Henry,

Did Abe Tadashi Sensei ever talk to you about the role and responsibility of an uchi-deshi of O Sensei?

The context of this question is the fact that Chiba Sensei returned to Japan around 1974 (I believe), was clearly not welcome at the Aikikai Hombu, and left for the USA in the early 1980s.

The nub of the question (I think--I have not yet thought this through very carefully), concerns the responsibility of the uchi-deshi to protect or safeguard the Way, as established by the Master. I think this also relates to the idea of SHU-HA-RI.

The cases of Abe and Chiba are similar in the sense that they returned to Japan and the Hombu after a spell abroad, and were shocked to find that not only things had changed, but they were absolutely powerless to do anything about it.

All the very best to you for 2011.

PAG
To be honest, I never had the opportunity to sit and have discussions with Tadashi Abe Sensei as I could with Abbe Sensei.

You raise a very interesting fact that I had not paid too much attention to previously...It does appear that the Aikido pioneers such as T Abe ~ M Nakazono ~ M Noro ~ TK Chiba ``all`` experienced problems with the Hombu establishment on their return.
I honestly believe that each one of the above felt they were responsible for safeguarding and protecting ``the way``. It would appear that they were as welcome home as were the hero's from Vietnam... Chiba Sensei's return was a little different, I will pm on this matter...

My thoughts would be.........The teachers named above left the Hombu as pioneers, they returned with their style and spirit unchanged, I believe the Hombu had changed, the dinosaurs were not welcome home....

Regards

Henry

Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2010, 12:00 PM   #100
Nicholas Eschenbruch
Dojo: TV Denzlingen
Location: Freiburg
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 308
Germany
Offline
Re: Tadashi Abe

Quote:
Alejandro Villanueva wrote: View Post
Looks like it's his archetypical presentation of the art. Wonder how that kata looks like, but I'm sure it is practical as can be. Could you provide some sort of description here? Thanks!
Hi Alejandro

beyond what I said already, not sure it would make sense to write more: the kata comprises twenty locking techniques with quite precisely prescribed details, so it would be both difficult and probably not very telling to try and go into detail. Sorry... Furthermore, there are at least three variants I am aware of amongst students of André Nocquet, so it has changed over time and I would be writing about now, rather than then.

As for the manner in which it is approached: uke is explicitly collusive; first training goal is precision; then what could be classed as zanshin/intent/ focus; then connection. In some way, with the etremely limited exposition to koryu I have had, it reminds me more of an (initial) presentation of koryu kata than of a standard „post-war" aikido framework. But that may just be may own teachers' preferences.

And well, yes, we have a sort of hands-on approach to locks... though I can see a very good point in other approaches as well, nowadays.
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tadashi Abe & Aritomo Murashige Nicholas Eschenbruch General 4 12-18-2006 12:44 AM
the life of tadashi abe pco General 1 08-04-2000 11:04 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:58 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate