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Old 12-06-2010, 11:15 AM   #26
jamie yugawa
 
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Re: Tadashi Abe

That is truly unfortunate. I hope that more pictures and videos of Abe Sensei show up to further delve into finding more about him. Perhaps at the 2011 O-Sensei Memorial I will have a chance to speak to some of the senior shihan about Abe sensei.
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Old 12-06-2010, 11:12 PM   #27
Ellis Amdur
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Re: Tadashi Abe

Terry Dobson met Abe Tadashi once, per his own account while living as an uchi-deshi. One night, he awoke to someone punching him over and over in the head. It was Abe Tadashi, drunk, yelling outrage because Terry was sleeping on his stomach. Abe claimed that a warrior should be sleeping on his back, to be able to fight off an attacker. Terry went after him and was tackled and restrained by the other uchi-deshi, because "Abe sensei is drunk."
Ellis Amdur

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Old 12-07-2010, 06:40 AM   #28
Hellis
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Re: Tadashi Abe

Quote:
Jamie Yugawa wrote: View Post
That is truly unfortunate. I hope that more pictures and videos of Abe Sensei show up to further delve into finding more about him. Perhaps at the 2011 O-Sensei Memorial I will have a chance to speak to some of the senior shihan about Abe sensei.
Jamie

We early students of British Aikido only had the occasional opportunity to study with Tadashi Abe Sensei. You may be able to learn much more by contacting Mr Jack Poole of Shinwakai Aikido UK who claims to have studied directly with Tadashi Abe in France in the early 1950s.

From Mr Poole's biography.

[quote]
Fortunately, Aikido had been introduced to France in 1952 by Tadashi Abe sensei , who was the official Aiki-Kai Honbu representative , and during leave and work placements in France Sensei Poole began training under him. [Unquote]

Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/
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Old 12-07-2010, 12:54 PM   #29
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Re: Tadashi Abe

Henry - you are a very bad man

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Old 12-07-2010, 01:37 PM   #30
jamie yugawa
 
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Re: Tadashi Abe

lol Thank you Ellis sensei. These are such interesting facts, the generation of aikidoka that started in the 40's had such unique circumstances they had to deal with (post war japan, the introduction of aikido to the masses, O-Sensei's evolution of aikido etc.). Their lives at that time are truly interesting, perhaps their struggles and conflicts were reflected in their Aikido and training.
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Old 12-07-2010, 02:41 PM   #31
Hellis
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Re: Tadashi Abe

Quote:
Ellis Amdur wrote: View Post
Henry - you are a very bad man
I am in some discomfort today, thank you for making me laugh :-)

Henry

Henry Ellis
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com/

Last edited by Hellis : 12-07-2010 at 02:55 PM.
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Old 12-07-2010, 02:54 PM   #32
Hellis
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Re: Tadashi Abe

Quote:
Jamie Yugawa wrote: View Post
lol Thank you Ellis sensei. These are such interesting facts, the generation of aikidoka that started in the 40's had such unique circumstances they had to deal with (post war japan, the introduction of aikido to the masses, O-Sensei's evolution of aikido etc.). Their lives at that time are truly interesting, perhaps their struggles and conflicts were reflected in their Aikido and training.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jamie

As a child during the war, I remember the poor families pooling their meager food rations to hold street parties for the returning prisoners of war, the prisoners of the Germans were treated far better than those that were prisoners of the Japanese, there were some awful sights to behold. In the UK food rationing continued until 1957. In the 1950s the war was fresh in everyones mind, with rationing and bomb sites everywhere. In the 1950s I was treated with anger and hostilty by the people I knew for being associated with a "" Japanese "" martial art. I wanted to tell everyone of the amazing technique of Abbe Sensei, I remember being threatened for even discussing my interests.

So, imagine how difficult it was for the likes of Kenshiro Abbe Sensei and Tadashi Abbe Sensei to come to Europe at such a time.

Henry Ellis
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com/
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Old 12-07-2010, 10:33 PM   #33
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Re: Tadashi Abe

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
... the prisoners of the Germans were treated far better than those that were prisoners of the Japanese, there were some awful sights to behold. ... In the 1950s I was treated with anger and hostilty by the people I knew for being associated with a "" Japanese "" martial art. I wanted to tell everyone of the amazing technique of Abbe Sensei, I remember being threatened for even discussing my interests.
Hi Mr. Ellis, thanks for talking about this. I didn't learn about these things until after starting aikido-- it is here on Aikiweb (thanks to Prof. Goldsbury) that I learned about things like Unit 731.
But there you were -- no need for history lessons or websites to tell you about such things with POWs coming home around you -- and yet you were just beginning to study a Japanese budo.

The anger that those around you expressed then is very much still alive now, so many years later, in those who were most affected by Japan in WWII. So, I want to ask: what was your response/defense/rationalization when people expressed their anger and hostility at that time? And, are your feelings any different now?

I'm just imagining you in post-war England singing the praises of a Japanese martial artist who felt cheated that he did not get to die by blowing himself up to sink an allied ship.

(BTW, I'm not being antagonistic, I do aikido too.. I just think these are the kinds of things we should talk about)

Thanks!
--JW
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Old 12-08-2010, 03:26 AM   #34
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Re: Tadashi Abe

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jamie

As a child during the war, I remember the poor families pooling their meager food rations to hold street parties for the returning prisoners of war, the prisoners of the Germans were treated far better than those that were prisoners of the Japanese, there were some awful sights to behold. In the UK food rationing continued until 1957. In the 1950s the war was fresh in everyones mind, with rationing and bomb sites everywhere. In the 1950s I was treated with anger and hostilty by the people I knew for being associated with a "" Japanese "" martial art. I wanted to tell everyone of the amazing technique of Abbe Sensei, I remember being threatened for even discussing my interests.

So, imagine how difficult it was for the likes of Kenshiro Abbe Sensei and Tadashi Abbe Sensei to come to Europe at such a time.

Henry Ellis
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com/
Dear Henry,
In respect of these Japanese masters who came to the U.K. they in my opinion endured hard times.A certain gentleman [we both know] had a really tough time living in the U.K. I think that we owe a great deal to these men for their courage and committment to spreading the art.If it was not for their early endeavours and the endeavours made by the first generation of Aikidoka in the U.K.I also think as far as the U.K. is concerned these early pioneers should warrant the respect and admiration from the current current Aikido community. Without their efforts and sacrifices who knows where Aikido in the U.K. would be today?
The same applies to men like Ken Cottier/Terry Dobson/Andre Nocquet/Henry Kono/Alan Ruddock who all made a pilgrimage to Japan to study.Hope I havent missed out any early pioneers.If so I apologise profusely in advance.
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Old 12-08-2010, 03:39 AM   #35
Hellis
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Re: Tadashi Abe

Hi Jonathan
One would think that with daily attacks on Britain the Germans would be the natural enemy.
As a schoolboy I spent a lot of time in air raid shelters hiding from the German bombers, I remember the German and Italian prisoners of war working in the fields, they were well guarded but also well looked after and well fed. As kids we would throw anything we could lay our hands on at the prisoners, they in turn would throw back in anger whatever they were digging up / cabbages / potatoes / turnips.........we would carry as much food home as we could for dear old mum, the rest we would sell for a few pennies.

When the treatment of the Japanese prisoners became known it appeared that they were the number one enemy as I recall.
I do recall being at work one day and once again trying to defend my reasons for my interest in Judo and Aikido when a guy that seemed more angry than most pulled upp his trouser legs to his knees showing the most horrible ``holes`` in his legs where in a Japanese camp he had been held down by his own medics and large leg ulcers removed with a large spoon from a pot of boiling water..... I decided there and then to keep my interests to myself and my friends.

Henry Ellis
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com
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Old 12-08-2010, 04:00 AM   #36
Aikilove
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Talking Re: Tadashi Abe

The image of Terry enraged and restrained by other uchi deshi made me laugh so hard I spilled my coffee!

/J

Quote:
Ellis Amdur wrote: View Post
Terry Dobson met Abe Tadashi once, per his own account while living as an uchi-deshi. One night, he awoke to someone punching him over and over in the head. It was Abe Tadashi, drunk, yelling outrage because Terry was sleeping on his stomach. Abe claimed that a warrior should be sleeping on his back, to be able to fight off an attacker. Terry went after him and was tackled and restrained by the other uchi-deshi, because "Abe sensei is drunk."
Ellis Amdur

Jakob Blomquist
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Old 12-08-2010, 05:09 AM   #37
Hellis
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Re: Tadashi Abe

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Dear Henry,
In respect of these Japanese masters who came to the U.K. they in my opinion endured hard times.A certain gentleman [we both know] had a really tough time living in the U.K. I think that we owe a great deal to these men for their courage and committment to spreading the art.If it was not for their early endeavours and the endeavours made by the first generation of Aikidoka in the U.K.I also think as far as the U.K. is concerned these early pioneers should warrant the respect and admiration from the current current Aikido community. Without their efforts and sacrifices who knows where Aikido in the U.K. would be today?
The same applies to men like Ken Cottier/Terry Dobson/Andre Nocquet/Henry Kono/Alan Ruddock who all made a pilgrimage to Japan to study.Hope I havent missed out any early pioneers.If so I apologise profusely in advance.
Hi Joe
I often think back to the time when our dojo " The Hut " was the only dojo in Britain training / teaching Aikido. Ken Williams Sensei would say that one day there would be an Aikido dojo in every town, I did not share that belief, but 55 years later I am sure that his forsight has come true.....

Kenshiro Abbe Sensei was a man of few possessions and material needs..He would often just call in the Hut Dojo wearing his one and only old brown `` demob `` suit, kick off his shoes and go on the mat and teach....He did not drink alcohol except maybe a half pint of bitter, he did like a cigarette.. Sensei lived for the Budo he loved with a passion...They were hard times, but great times.
When Abbe Sensei left the UK to travel across Europe, he stayed with my good friend Elio Lamaga in Italy, Elio said that all Sensei wanted was the basic needs, a home and food, he would then teach all who flocked to him.

Henry
Henry Ellis
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com/
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Old 12-08-2010, 07:11 AM   #38
tlk52
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Re: Tadashi Abe

?? just to clarify, the discussion is re: Tadashi Abbe Sensei, yes? as opposed to Kenshiro Abbe Sense?

I believe that Tadashi Abbe Sensei is related to Y. Yamada Sensei
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Old 12-08-2010, 09:08 AM   #39
Cliff Judge
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Re: Tadashi Abe

Quote:
Toby Kasavan wrote: View Post
?? just to clarify, the discussion is re: Tadashi Abbe Sensei, yes? as opposed to Kenshiro Abbe Sense?

I believe that Tadashi Abbe Sensei is related to Y. Yamada Sensei
The original discussion topic was Tadashi Abe. However, I would humbly suggest that if we have a man among us who is willing to post first-hand accounts of the British Aikido scene of 60 years ago, we'd be doing our community a great deal of harm by discouraging him in any way from continuing to do so.

Just for the record, isn't it Tadahi ABE and Kenshiro ABBE?
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Old 12-08-2010, 09:27 AM   #40
sakumeikan
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Re: Tadashi Abe

Quote:
Cliff Judge wrote: View Post
The original discussion topic was Tadashi Abe. However, I would humbly suggest that if we have a man among us who is willing to post first-hand accounts of the British Aikido scene of 60 years ago, we'd be doing our community a great deal of harm by discouraging him in any way from continuing to do so.

Just for the record, isn't it Tadahi ABE and Kenshiro ABBE?
Hi, Cliff ,
I agree.Having trained with Abbe Sensei in the early days[Judo ] I can vouch for his martial abilities.Your spelling of the names are correct.I see no reason why anyone will mind if the subject matter strays away a little as long as we get an insight into how Aikido was in the early days.
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Old 12-08-2010, 09:31 AM   #41
sakumeikan
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Re: Tadashi Abe

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Hi, Cliff ,
I agree.Having trained with Abbe Sensei in the early days[Judo ] I can vouch for his martial abilities.Your spelling of the names are correct.I see no reason why anyone will mind if the subject matter strays away a little as long as we get an insight into how Aikido was in the early days.
I just noticed the incorrect spelling in my blog of Tadashi Abe name.Silly me.I put it in as Tadahi. Sorry for typing error.
Joe.
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Old 12-08-2010, 10:09 AM   #42
Cliff Judge
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Re: Tadashi Abe

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
I just noticed the incorrect spelling in my blog of Tadashi Abe name.Silly me.I put it in as Tadahi. Sorry for typing error.
Joe.
Oops, I got the given name wrong when trying to clarify the spelling of the family name. Too funny.

Tadashi Abe.
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Old 12-08-2010, 03:33 PM   #43
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Re: Tadashi Abe

Make sure you get the tadashii (correct) Abe: Tadashi Abe
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Old 12-08-2010, 06:09 PM   #44
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Re: Tadashi Abe

Thank you Ellis sensei for sharing your expiriences. I had never thought about peoples attitude in America and the U.K. towards Japan and all thing Japanese in the immediate post war life. You are right, for a Japanese to move to the "Enemies" homeland was a tough struggle indeed. Tadashi Abe and Kenshiro Abbe were tougher in a lot more ways then one. I am sure they spoke of their struggles to no one either.
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Old 12-09-2010, 03:58 AM   #45
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Re: Tadashi Abe

Quote:
Jamie Yugawa wrote: View Post
Thank you Ellis sensei for sharing your expiriences. I had never thought about peoples attitude in America and the U.K. towards Japan and all thing Japanese in the immediate post war life. You are right, for a Japanese to move to the "Enemies" homeland was a tough struggle indeed. Tadashi Abe and Kenshiro Abbe were tougher in a lot more ways then one. I am sure they spoke of their struggles to no one either.
Agree - fascinating reading.

I'd heard views from westerners about their immediate postwar experiences training in Japan but never really thought about the other side of the coin with the Japanese over 'here'.
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Old 12-09-2010, 05:33 AM   #46
Hellis
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Re: Tadashi Abe

Not wishing to upset our `volunteer ` moderator, the names of both Tadashi Abe Sensei and Kenshiro Abbe Sensei ( Abe ) are inextricably linked, they were both officers in the Japanese Imperial Army, they were also great friends, they had both studied with OSensei, Abe Sensei was the Aikido pioneer to Europe, Abbe Sensei was the Aikido pioneer who brought Aikido to Britain. They would invite each other across the channel on many occasions. They did great things together. Together these two `` gentlemen `` were true ambassdors of the Japanese people.

At the Kenshiro Abbe memorial in 2005, the Japanese Embassy Cultural Attache made one of the mosr amazing speeches I have ever heard, he spoke of the bravery of Abbe Sensei in visiting the UK in such difficult times, he referred several times to the war.

Henry Ellis
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Old 12-09-2010, 09:32 AM   #47
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Re: Tadashi Abe

Ellis Sensei, I found your book on Amazon.com and look forward to reading more about Aikido in th U.K. I was able to see Abe sensei's book from the link some one sent over and noticed he used a lot of atemi including kicks and headbutts. Even some of the techniques still were using daito ryu names ( Ikkajo). Are these techniques still emphasized now in Aikido in the U.K.?
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Old 12-09-2010, 09:42 AM   #48
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Re: Tadashi Abe

On the polar opposite side, Hawaii's assimilation of Aikido into our culture was fast and painless due to the large American Japanese population and martial arts being integrated in daily life here. Koichi Tohei was treated with the utmost respect and gratitude by the community here. I think what also helped was the ban on martial arts was lifted in the late 40's right before Tohei sensei came to hawaii. For the Japanese Aikido teachers to be treated like second class citizens at the same time is astounding to me.
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Old 12-09-2010, 09:52 AM   #49
Hellis
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Re: Tadashi Abe

Quote:
Jamie Yugawa wrote: View Post
Ellis Sensei, I found your book on Amazon.com and look forward to reading more about Aikido in th U.K. I was able to see Abe sensei's book from the link some one sent over and noticed he used a lot of atemi including kicks and headbutts. Even some of the techniques still were using daito ryu names ( Ikkajo). Are these techniques still emphasized now in Aikido in the U.K.?
Jamie
I am pleased to read that you are interested in the book " Positive Aikido " ...If you are looking for floating around the universe or Aiki love ? cancel your order now, if you wish to learn about positive traditional Aikido ? then I am sure you will enjoy the book.

In the 1950s there were no names for techniques, simply " necessary this technique " and we would learn by observation, with a little help from a Shinai, Abbe Sensei would say "" my English is bad, my Shinai speaks English fluently " ... when Nakazono Sensei arrived we started to put names to the techniques.

I am often amazed how so many people in Aikido say " there is no kicking in Aikido !!! " ...The Aikido of Tadashi Abe and Kenshiro Abe there was a lot of kicking and punching, no time to tell your opponent that you love him, enter and take your opponent out.
My students are still taught in the original ways, I don't know of other schools ??
Henry Ellis
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com/
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Old 12-09-2010, 09:58 AM   #50
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Re: Tadashi Abe

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Jamie
I am pleased to read that you are interested in the book " Positive Aikido " ...If you are looking for floating around the universe or Aiki love, cancel your order now, if you wish to learn about positive traditional Aikido, then I am sure you will enjoy the book.
Ditto, Jamie. Ellis Sensei did an excellent job with this book. This link will take you to the Aikido Journal bibliography link, where you will find some very positive reviews.
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