Ego in the forum

Ego: egotism; conceit; self-importance
When I am training I can feel the different characters of my ukes, if they are calm, relaxed, nervous, rigid,in a hurry or angry. There are a few guys who only like to train with high grades never with newbies, because with the last they cannot exhibit themselves. This is ego in the dojo.
Reading the threads in this forum and thinking about them I found also different personalities.Luckily many are so kind to find the information or just report an experience that might help the person who is posting. But I'm sorry to find some people who like to provoke or if they cannot answer in their own words just quote a famous phrase sometimes in another language, to exhibit themselves even if the person who is asking won't understand it. And finally I found a few who also like to show their great knowledge, these ones enjoy to write endless comments. They have the good intention to help, but don't think that if they put too much information, maybe they will annoy the person who is asking.

I 'd like to quote 3rd Doshu Moriteru Ueshiba Sensei, thanks Niall for your post in your blog..
One must, for example, maintain good Aikido posture and movement throughout the day. More important, however, is to maintain a modest attitude, and harmonize mind and body. In the realm of human relationships, one must avoid conflict and resolve problems in a harmonious Aikido fashion. In order to do this well, one must above all be modest and humble.
http://www.aikidoonline.com/articles...hiba_Q_A_2.php

This is not a personal attack to anybody in this forum, I'm just writing my thoughts reading your posts ant threads as a new member.

Are you modest and humble?

Those are things that needed to be said, Carina.

Is it naive to expect aikidoka to have respect for each other and each other's points of view?

And the ai in aikido - why do so many people forget it when they are outside a dojo?

And Demetrio why are you trying to evade the questions? Ask yourself not somebody else.

Niall Matthews wrote: And the ai in aikido - why do so many people forget it when they are outside a dojo?

I believe the "ai" in "aikido" is inseparable from the "ki". I believe it's not ai-ki-do, but aiki-do.

Niall, I'm not evading Carina's questions. In fact there are any questions in her post.

Now, if you want me to question myself If I'm modest and humble, I've already done that. I don't consider myself nor modest nor humble, at least I try not to be one of those modest, humble ad egoless people cause, paraphrasing Spinoza, they are usually most ambitious and envious.

Like Nietzsche said, he that humbleth himself wishes to be exalted.

So, what the ones who are into this "one must above all be modest and humble" are really looking for?

Demetrio Cereijo wrote: So, what the ones who are into this "one must above all be modest and humble" are really looking for?

Ahhh, your rhetorical way... You already replied yourself, of course. They want to be exalted as the most humble and modest. But you already knew that .

Demetrio Cereijo wrote: Are you modest and humble?

I don't know Demetrio, that is a question for my companions in the dojo and my sensei.

Well it didn't take very long for the personal attacks to start.

Great I get to use the irony mark.

Alejandro your opinion about parsing aikido is yours. Interesting to know you don't believe in blending or harmony. And you've just shown you can't join a debate without making a personal attack.

Q.E.D. Which was Carina's point.

Carina, if they say you're modest and humble, you are. If they say you're not modest and humble, then you aren't.

You are defined by what others (the aikido group, but not your family, friends, coworkers, neightbors, etc) think about you, isn't it? Are you in a cult, maybe?

Niall, where is Alex personal attack? I don't see it.

Demetrio I don't mind if you ask yourself or not. But thank you for an honest answer. I wondered why you turned the subject back onto the original poster instead of addressing the point. Because that is avoiding the central debate.

Why in an aikido forum is there so much low level spitefulness and lack of respect.

[I just saw you edited your post to ask me about Alejandro's attack. Sorry Demetrio I thought it was clear. It was when he said that people who are into being modest and humble want to be exalted as the most humble and modest. So that is a personal attack on the OP for starting the thred, on me for joining the debate agreeing with her, nearly every aikido teacher I know and nearly every budo teacher I know.]

Niall Matthews wrote: Well it didn't take very long for the personal attacks to start. Great I get to use the irony mark. Alejandro your opinion about parsing aikido is yours. Interesting to know you don't believe in blending or harmony. And you've just shown you can't join a debate without making a personal attack. Q.E.D. Which was Carina's point.

didn't thought that was a personal attack, but then it might be. question though, without attack how can you do the so-called blending or harmony thing of aikido? without chaos, can you define order? without hate, can you define love? without, yin, do you understand yang? without death, what is life? without ego how can you eat breakfast?

Despite the egoists and the trolls, I think this is an excellent forum. It is owned and managed by Jun Akiyama without any conditions for joining, except those four forum rules that appear whenever you write a post.

It is a large general forum which Jun manages on his own, without the help of any moderators. And there is room for all types of post.

I was once chastized by Kisshomaru Ueshiba for making adverse comments about the aikido of a famous shihan. Doshu gently told me that it was best that I note the differences between my aikido and his, without making any judgments, especially judgments in words.
Kisshomaru Doshu was exhibiting a certain kind of rhetoric, certainly not the adversarial rhetoric favoured by those following a Greek/Roman model.

Here is part of a discourse attributed to the Buddha:
"Speech that the Tathagata knows to be untrue, false, and useless, and also unpleasant and disagreeable to others, he does not speak; that which he knows to be true, real, and useful, but also unpleasant and disagreeable to others, in that case he knows the right time to express it. Speech that he knows to be untrue, false, and useless, but also pleasant and agreeable to others, he does not speak; that which is true, real, but useless, and also pleasant and agreeable to others, that, too, he does not speak; but that which is true, real, and useful, and also pleasant and agreeable to others, in that case he knows the right time to express it." (Edward Thomas, The Life of Buddha as Legend and History, 1975, pp. 136-137.)

The rhetoric that alluded to here has as an overriding principle the knowledge of when to speak (or post) and when to keep silent.

Best wishes,

P Goldsbury

Niall Matthews wrote: Demetrio I don't mind if you ask yourself or not. But thank you for an honest answer. I wondered why you turned the subject back onto the original poster instead of addressing the point. Because that is avoiding the central debate. .

Niall, I'm not avoiding the central debate. Unless you consider going socratic on OP is avoiding the debate. Maybe you prefer a different aproach to the issue but your dialectic preferences are not mine nor mandatory here afaik.

Niall Matthews wrote: [I just saw you edited your post to ask me about Alejandro's attack. Sorry Demetrio I thought it was clear. It was when he said that people who are into being modest and humble want to be exalted as the most humble and modest. So that is a personal attack on the OP for starting the thred, on me for joining the debate agreeing with her, nearly every aikido teacher I know and nearly every budo teacher I know.]

Or simply he shares Nietzsche, Spinoza and other views instead of sharing the views of said aikido and budo teachers.

BTW, do you consider a personal attack every divergence from your opinion?

Nice post Peter, with a lot of good points. And I agree completely about Jun. But when you say there is room for all types of post let me counter that I have been told explicitly that someone has given up posting in the forums because of the aggressiveness. That's not good. And if people don't bother accessing the site because of it or are reluctant to become contributing members because of it that's not good either. I'm still relatively new on here so I don't have your sang-froid about the atmosphere.

Demetrio I was giving you the benefit of the doubt there for a while but no you just proved Carina's point too. And you're still avoiding the debate.

Niall Matthews wrote: Demetrio I was giving you the benefit of the doubt there for a while but no you just proved Carina's point too. And you're still avoiding the debate.

You've just won the thread.

Good Morning:
I like the truth. My truth might be different from others. I have learned much by posting and not posting on Aikiweb.

Thank you, Peter.

I have also learned much from watching and reading posts by others.
In the dojo I don't handpick my ukes. I must accept what they bring to the practice. I do this forum the same way. If the post is to wordy I don't read it. If it is sarcastic or demeaning, I don't take it personally.
This forum is another oppurtunity to train. I watch my thoughts and watch my ego.
When my feelings get hurt, I know I have to much invested and it's time for another time out.
There are some diamonds in the hay here.
Mary

Peter A Goldsbury wrote: Despite the egoists and the trolls, I think this is an excellent forum. It is owned and managed by Jun Akiyama without any conditions for joining, except those four forum rules that appear whenever you write a post. It is a large general forum which Jun manages on his own, without the help of any moderators. And there is room for all types of post.

I agree with you Prof Goldsbury it is an excellent forum thanks to Jun Akiyama who controlls very well the egoists and trolls. I hardly recognize a few of them

And Demetrio we are in an aikido forum, naturally you can also ask my family , neighbours or coworkers what they think about me, but I don't think it fits in an aikido forum

Please Niall, what are you talking about? Did I troll the thread? Did I really attack Carina or yourself? What's the connection between what Peter said about Jun and trolls with me and the thread? Are YOU trolling me?

Oh, sorry, you don't like my opinion so I must be a troll.

Oh, yes, and I don't believe in blending and harmony? Do you read that from my post? Come on, you still cannot read minds. You failed.

I do believe in blending. I just do not believe the 合 in aikido can be separated from 合気 . Just saying that aiki is not "blending". And you consider that I don't believe in blending. Oh, sorry I'm not in the same level of understanding that you are. Both in Aikido or reading comprehension.

I just don't buy AIKIDO is "the way of harmony with Life, the Universe and Everithing", but "the way of Aiki (which is a set of skills, both internal and external)". But, hey, you are right, I meant it as a personal attack to Carina and/or you.

Go figure. I believe you attacked me, but I'm no friend of Jun and maybe you are. That's why you won't be banned.

Mary Eastland wrote: Good Morning: I like the truth. My truth might be different from others. I have learned much by posting and not posting on Aikiweb. Thank you, Peter. I have also learned much from watching and reading posts by others. In the dojo I don't handpick my ukes. I must accept what they bring to the practice. I do this forum the same way. If the post is to wordy I don't read it. If it is sarcastic or demeaning, I don't take it personally. This forum is another oppurtunity to train. I watch my thoughts and watch my ego. When my feelings get hurt, I know I have to much invested and it's time for another time out. There are some diamonds in the hay here. Mary

Great post Mary, thanks.

Hello Niall,

Well, I think we will have to agree to disagree.

When I stated that there is room for all types of post, I meant a wide spectrum, from the heavy-duty researched columns that I write, to the much more general chat discussions that take place often. You countered with a suggestion that I did not intend. I do not condone breaking of the rules of the forum, but I think it is up to Jun to decide what is aggressive. Sometimes I send him my opinions by PM, but it is his forum.

I have some experience of general martial arts forums and I moderate one of them. It is not the first time that someone has noted displays of egotism, conceit and self-importance in such forums and I am sure that Carina's post won't be the last.

I think people do not post for a variety of reasons, not merely because of aggression displayed. The fact that one does not have anything useful or appropriate to contribute is quite a powerful reason for me. I do not do blogs, nor do I like Facebook, though I have a very uneventful page there. How I see my own aikido, on or off the mat, is a private matter and I have no desire to reveal this to anyone, and certainly no obligation to do so.

Niall Matthews wrote: Nice post Peter, with a lot of good points. And I agree completely about Jun. But when you say there is room for all types of post let me counter that I have been told explicitly that someone has given up posting in the forums because of the aggressiveness. That's not good. And if people don't bother accessing the site because of it or are reluctant to become contributing members because of it that's not good either. I'm still relatively new on here so I don't have your sang-froid about the atmosphere.

Best wishes,

PAG

I'm starting to thing some people would like to see enforced an Aikiweb version of japanese Peace Preservation Laws.

Kokutai must not be altered. So let it be written, so let it be done.

Thank you, Peter. Sorry for misinterpreting your point.

Demetrio I believe debate can be lively and robust without being aggressive and without personal attacks. There's plenty of that on bullshido and other places. If I misinterpreted your posts or Alejandro's I apologize.

By the way joking aside maybe another historical thread (about kokutai) is a good idea - your Turbulent priests and millenarian protest link was very interesting.

Niall, in reality there is nothing to be discussed.

Doshu said:

"In the realm of human relationships, one must avoid conflict and resolve problems in a harmonious Aikido fashion. In order to do this well, one must above all be modest and humble."

Sacred magisterium is not to be discussed by puny humans.

On Kokutai. Easy:

1- Get a Kokutai no Hongi (maybe there are still some available in Japan)
2 - Put the "aikido" where necessary.
3 - ....
4 - Profit

PS: You don't need to apologize to me.
PS 2: If you are still wondering why in an aikido forum is there so much low level spitefulness and lack of respect, the answer is... because is an aikido forum.