Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Open Discussions

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-30-2010, 06:23 AM   #1
WilliB
Dojo: Minato Aikikai
Location: Tokyo
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 143
Japan
Offline
Re: To bow or not to bow

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
I don't think it is. I don't think that this is even close to the question posed by OP. I think you are creating a strawman argument using a deliberately inflammatory term. Sorry, but there it is.
It is the nose of the camel in the tent, as the Arab proverb goes. Once you accept that islam (or another religion, but islam is the one that comes with countless Shariah rules) takes priority over existing rules, then there is no end to it. I just said that this should be nipped in the bud right from the start. Sorry, but there it is.

If you fund the kissing Arafat funny is of course up to you... sorry for assuming too much.
 
Old 09-30-2010, 08:18 AM   #2
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,184
United_States
Offline
Re: To bow or not to bow

Sweet suffering god. You want to make sweeping pronouncements about all Muslims but you don't want to get called on it. You want to selectively cherrypick from Muslim theology and behavior, hang it all up on the wall and alternately tsk-tsk and laugh at it, and not own what you're doing. You speak as if your views on Islam were self-evident and not the product of intellectually dishonest "reasoning" and bigotry. I'm done discussing this with you, because you're a broken record. I'm not done speaking out against Islamophobia, but as you don't have anything new to add, I consider that I've said my piece and it will stand for itself just fine. Feel free to have the last word.
 
Old 09-30-2010, 09:24 AM   #3
C. David Henderson
Location: Santa Fe New Mexico
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 606
United_States
Offline
Re: To bow or not to bow

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
You want to make sweeping pronouncements ... but you don't want to get called on it [or] own what you're doing.
+1

David Henderson
 
Old 09-30-2010, 09:49 AM   #4
Janet Rosen
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Janet Rosen's Avatar
Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,339
Offline
Re: To bow or not to bow

Quote:
Charles David Henderson wrote: View Post
+1
(sigh) yep, add me in

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
 
Old 10-04-2010, 07:25 AM   #5
WilliB
Dojo: Minato Aikikai
Location: Tokyo
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 143
Japan
Offline
Re: To bow or not to bow

Quote:
Bjorn Saw wrote: View Post
If we want to serve God and Allah we first must understand the will of the most high.

I will ask my student to follow his own criteria when it comes to accepting the etiquette and tradition that he himself expects of people entering his faith. He will live by his own set of rules.
I am not sure what you are saying --- that you are asking him to observe the etiquette in your dojo, or that you make it optional for him?

By the way, careful... God and Allah are very different concepts. The commands of one are obviously very different from the other. Note also that in Malaysia, non-muslim citizens are probited by law to use the name Allah for God, in order not offend the sensitivities of the muslim Malays.
 
Old 10-04-2010, 07:37 AM   #6
Rabih Shanshiry
 
Rabih Shanshiry's Avatar
Location: Boston/MA
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 197
United_States
Offline
Re: To bow or not to bow

Quote:
Willi Brix wrote: View Post
By the way, careful... God and Allah are very different concepts.
"Allah" is simply the Arabic name for God. The Arabic etymology of the word comes from al + ilah. "Al" is the definite article "the." "Ilah" means "god," lowercase "g." So "al ilah" means "the god." Put them together you get "Allah" or God, with a capital G.

If you enter any Christian Church where the mass is performed in Arabic, you will find them praying to "Allah." If you open any Arabic language Bible (Old or New Testament), the word used for God is "Allah."

The same way God in German is Gott, in French is Dieu, in Spanish is Dios.

I would suggest you take the time to read an introductory text on Islam. That may correct some of your misconceptions. I would be happy to suggest some written by Christian, Western academics if you are so inclined.

Last edited by Rabih Shanshiry : 10-04-2010 at 07:42 AM.
 
Old 10-04-2010, 08:00 AM   #7
Flintstone
Dojo: Wherever I happen to be
Location: Zaragoza
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 587
Spain
Offline
Re: To bow or not to bow

Quote:
Willi Brix wrote: View Post
By the way, careful... God and Allah are very different concepts.
Oh, is that so?
 
Old 10-04-2010, 08:22 AM   #8
torbjornsaw
 
torbjornsaw's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Alive London
Location: London
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 74
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: To bow or not to bow

The term Allāh is derived from a contraction of the Arabic definite article al- "the" and ʼilāh "deity, god" to al-lāh meaning "the [sole] deity, God" (ho theos monos). Cognates of the name "Allāh" exist in other Semitic languages, including Hebrew and Aramaic. Biblical Hebrew mostly uses the plural form (but functional singular) Elohim. The corresponding Aramaic form is ʼĔlāhā אֱלָהָא in Biblical Aramaic and ʼAlâhâ in Syriac.

 
Old 10-04-2010, 09:21 AM   #9
WilliB
Dojo: Minato Aikikai
Location: Tokyo
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 143
Japan
Offline
Re: To bow or not to bow

Quote:
Rabih Shanshiry wrote: View Post
"Allah" is simply the Arabic name for God. The Arabic etymology of the word comes from al + ilah. "Al" is the definite article "the." "Ilah" means "god," lowercase "g." So "al ilah" means "the god." Put them together you get "Allah" or God, with a capital G.

If you enter any Christian Church where the mass is performed in Arabic, you will find them praying to "Allah." If you open any Arabic language Bible (Old or New Testament), the word used for God is "Allah."
Please explain that to the Malaysian muslim government then:

http://www.zeenews.com/news596153.html
 
Old 10-04-2010, 09:47 AM   #10
Flintstone
Dojo: Wherever I happen to be
Location: Zaragoza
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 587
Spain
Offline
Re: To bow or not to bow

Quote:
Willi Brix wrote: View Post
Please explain that to the Malaysian muslim government then:

http://www.zeenews.com/news596153.html
You still get weird facts from the internet and treat them as the rule and representative of Islam. And yet you don't find the flaw in your arguments.
 
Old 10-04-2010, 09:57 AM   #11
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,184
United_States
Offline
Re: To bow or not to bow

Alejandro. Dude. Don't you know that selectively cherrypicked weird internet factoids = Revealed Truth?
 
Old 10-04-2010, 09:59 AM   #12
Flintstone
Dojo: Wherever I happen to be
Location: Zaragoza
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 587
Spain
Offline
Re: To bow or not to bow

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Alejandro. Dude. Don't you know that selectively cherrypicked weird internet factoids = Revealed Truth?
I gess I should have known that by now...
 
Old 10-04-2010, 10:02 AM   #13
Keith Larman
Dojo: AIA, Los Angeles, CA
Location: California
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,604
United_States
Offline
Re: To bow or not to bow

Confirmation Bias

 
Old 10-04-2010, 10:08 AM   #14
Rabih Shanshiry
 
Rabih Shanshiry's Avatar
Location: Boston/MA
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 197
United_States
Offline
Re: To bow or not to bow

Quote:
Willi Brix wrote: View Post
Please explain that to the Malaysian muslim government then:

http://www.zeenews.com/news596153.html
The Malaysian government can say and do what it wants. Doesn't change the truth of what I said any more than what you write here on Aikiweb.

We can debate opinions but when we start arguing facts, there's nothing more to be said.
 
Old 10-04-2010, 10:45 AM   #15
WilliB
Dojo: Minato Aikikai
Location: Tokyo
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 143
Japan
Offline
Re: To bow or not to bow

Quote:
Rabih Shanshiry wrote: View Post
The Malaysian government can say and do what it wants. Doesn't change the truth of what I said any more than what you write here on Aikiweb.
What I said was: "Note also that in Malaysia, non-muslim citizens are probited by law to use the name Allah for God, in order not offend the sensitivities of the muslim Malays."

You protested, and I produced a link to prove it.

If you personally agree with the Malaysian government or not, is an entirely different topic. Please donīt shift the goal posts.
 
Old 10-04-2010, 11:41 AM   #16
Rabih Shanshiry
 
Rabih Shanshiry's Avatar
Location: Boston/MA
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 197
United_States
Offline
Re: To bow or not to bow

Quote:
Willi Brix wrote: View Post
What I said was: "Note also that in Malaysia, non-muslim citizens are probited by law to use the name Allah for God, in order not offend the sensitivities of the muslim Malays."

You protested, and I produced a link to prove it.

If you personally agree with the Malaysian government or not, is an entirely different topic. Please donīt shift the goal posts.
The statement of yours that I and several others protested was:

"By the way, careful... God and Allah are very different concepts."

I don't have time for games. Out of respect for Jun and the original topic of this thread, I am now "bowing out."
 
Old 10-05-2010, 04:21 AM   #17
David Yap
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 561
Malaysia
Offline
Re: To bow or not to bow

Quote:
Willi Brix wrote: View Post
I am not sure what you are saying --- that you are asking him to observe the etiquette in your dojo, or that you make it optional for him?

By the way, careful... God and Allah are very different concepts. The commands of one are obviously very different from the other. Note also that in Malaysia, non-muslim citizens are probited by law to use the name Allah for God, in order not offend the sensitivities of the muslim Malays.
I am a Malaysian. Law, what law??
 
Old 10-05-2010, 04:43 AM   #18
Flintstone
Dojo: Wherever I happen to be
Location: Zaragoza
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 587
Spain
Offline
Re: To bow or not to bow

Quote:
David Yap wrote: View Post
I am a Malaysian. Law, what law??
Are talking about your own anecdotal experience? That's no value in here, bro .
 
Old 10-05-2010, 07:56 AM   #19
David Yap
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 561
Malaysia
Offline
Re: To bow or not to bow

Quote:
Alejandro Villanueva wrote: View Post
Are talking about your own anecdotal experience? That's no value in here, bro .
No, not my anecdotal experience If you guys choose to quote news sources on Malaysia I suggest that you do more in-depth research. Here we have both secular and sharia laws. Anyway, here is not the place to discuss.

First, you should research into our draconian Internal Security Act.
 
Old 10-06-2010, 12:14 AM   #20
WilliB
Dojo: Minato Aikikai
Location: Tokyo
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 143
Japan
Offline
Re: To bow or not to bow

Quote:
Rabih Shanshiry wrote: View Post
The statement of yours that I and several others protested was:

"By the way, careful... God and Allah are very different concepts."

I don't have time for games. Out of respect for Jun and the original topic of this thread, I am now "bowing out."
God and Allah are obviously very different concepts. Just compare the commands they give to mankind. IFyou believe they come from the same source, then you must logically believe that God/Allah is schizophrenic.

My reference to Malaysia was simply to underline that at least the Malaysian shariah authorities make that distinction; that was simply an illustration, not the main point.
 
Old 10-06-2010, 12:25 AM   #21
David Yap
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 561
Malaysia
Offline
Re: To bow or not to bow

Quote:
Willi Brix wrote: View Post
...My reference to Malaysia was simply to underline that at least the Malaysian shariah authorities make that distinction; that was simply an illustration, not the main point.
Now, this is an anecdotal experience. When have these "authorities" been known to make distinctions? Please show proof.
 
Old 10-06-2010, 04:55 AM   #22
Flintstone
Dojo: Wherever I happen to be
Location: Zaragoza
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 587
Spain
Offline
Re: To bow or not to bow

Quote:
Willi Brix wrote: View Post
God and Allah are obviously very different concepts.
Yes. As obvious as your lack of understanding about the etymology, the religions, the cultures and the people.
 
Old 10-06-2010, 07:56 AM   #23
WilliB
Dojo: Minato Aikikai
Location: Tokyo
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 143
Japan
Offline
Re: To bow or not to bow

Quote:
David Yap wrote: View Post
Now, this is an anecdotal experience. When have these "authorities" been known to make distinctions? Please show proof.
The proof is in the law itself. If you did not make the distinction, the law would be meaningless. Think about it.
 
Old 10-06-2010, 08:04 AM   #24
Flintstone
Dojo: Wherever I happen to be
Location: Zaragoza
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 587
Spain
Offline
Re: To bow or not to bow

Quote:
Willi Brix wrote: View Post
The proof is in the law itself. If you did not make the distinction, the law would be meaningless. Think about it.
The man lives there. He doesn't need to think about it. He lives it.
 
Old 10-06-2010, 08:54 AM   #25
WilliB
Dojo: Minato Aikikai
Location: Tokyo
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 143
Japan
Offline
Re: To bow or not to bow

Quote:
Alejandro Villanueva wrote: View Post
The man lives there. He doesn't need to think about it. He lives it.
And I suggest it would be a good idea to try thinking, regardless of where you live.

Of course, free thought and Shariah do not go well together.
 

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 18 Peter Goldsbury Columns 187 09-08-2011 02:41 PM
Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 17 Peter Goldsbury Columns 41 06-03-2010 09:46 PM
Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 14 Peter Goldsbury Columns 38 07-31-2009 11:19 PM
Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 12 Peter Goldsbury Columns 32 05-16-2009 06:05 PM
Is aikido a spiritual practice ? jennifer paige smith Spiritual 84 07-26-2007 09:11 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:14 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2018 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2018 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate