Another Religious Discussion

Mary Malmros wrote: I don't think it is. I don't think that this is even close to the question posed by OP. I think you are creating a strawman argument using a deliberately inflammatory term. Sorry, but there it is.

It is the nose of the camel in the tent, as the Arab proverb goes. Once you accept that islam (or another religion, but islam is the one that comes with countless Shariah rules) takes priority over existing rules, then there is no end to it. I just said that this should be nipped in the bud right from the start. Sorry, but there it is.

If you fund the kissing Arafat funny is of course up to you... sorry for assuming too much.

Sweet suffering god. You want to make sweeping pronouncements about all Muslims but you don't want to get called on it. You want to selectively cherrypick from Muslim theology and behavior, hang it all up on the wall and alternately tsk-tsk and laugh at it, and not own what you're doing. You speak as if your views on Islam were self-evident and not the product of intellectually dishonest "reasoning" and bigotry. I'm done discussing this with you, because you're a broken record. I'm not done speaking out against Islamophobia, but as you don't have anything new to add, I consider that I've said my piece and it will stand for itself just fine. Feel free to have the last word.

Mary Malmros wrote: You want to make sweeping pronouncements ... but you don't want to get called on it [or] own what you're doing.

+1

Charles David Henderson wrote: +1

(sigh) yep, add me in

Bjorn Saw wrote: If we want to serve God and Allah we first must understand the will of the most high. I will ask my student to follow his own criteria when it comes to accepting the etiquette and tradition that he himself expects of people entering his faith. He will live by his own set of rules.

I am not sure what you are saying --- that you are asking him to observe the etiquette in your dojo, or that you make it optional for him?

By the way, careful... God and Allah are very different concepts. The commands of one are obviously very different from the other. Note also that in Malaysia, non-muslim citizens are probited by law to use the name Allah for God, in order not offend the sensitivities of the muslim Malays.

Willi Brix wrote: By the way, careful... God and Allah are very different concepts.

"Allah" is simply the Arabic name for God. The Arabic etymology of the word comes from al + ilah. "Al" is the definite article "the." "Ilah" means "god," lowercase "g." So "al ilah" means "the god." Put them together you get "Allah" or God, with a capital G.

If you enter any Christian Church where the mass is performed in Arabic, you will find them praying to "Allah." If you open any Arabic language Bible (Old or New Testament), the word used for God is "Allah."

The same way God in German is Gott, in French is Dieu, in Spanish is Dios.

I would suggest you take the time to read an introductory text on Islam. That may correct some of your misconceptions. I would be happy to suggest some written by Christian, Western academics if you are so inclined.

Willi Brix wrote: By the way, careful... God and Allah are very different concepts.

Oh, is that so?

The term Allāh is derived from a contraction of the Arabic definite article al- "the" and ʼilāh "deity, god" to al-lāh meaning "the [sole] deity, God" (ho theos monos). Cognates of the name "Allāh" exist in other Semitic languages, including Hebrew and Aramaic. Biblical Hebrew mostly uses the plural form (but functional singular) Elohim. The corresponding Aramaic form is ʼĔlāhā אֱלָהָא in Biblical Aramaic and ʼAlâhâ in Syriac.

Rabih Shanshiry wrote: "Allah" is simply the Arabic name for God. The Arabic etymology of the word comes from al + ilah. "Al" is the definite article "the." "Ilah" means "god," lowercase "g." So "al ilah" means "the god." Put them together you get "Allah" or God, with a capital G. If you enter any Christian Church where the mass is performed in Arabic, you will find them praying to "Allah." If you open any Arabic language Bible (Old or New Testament), the word used for God is "Allah."

Please explain that to the Malaysian muslim government then:

http://www.zeenews.com/news596153.html

Willi Brix wrote: Please explain that to the Malaysian muslim government then: http://www.zeenews.com/news596153.html

You still get weird facts from the internet and treat them as the rule and representative of Islam. And yet you don't find the flaw in your arguments.

Alejandro. Dude. Don't you know that selectively cherrypicked weird internet factoids = Revealed Truth?

Mary Malmros wrote: Alejandro. Dude. Don't you know that selectively cherrypicked weird internet factoids = Revealed Truth?

I gess I should have known that by now...

Confirmation Bias

Willi Brix wrote: Please explain that to the Malaysian muslim government then: http://www.zeenews.com/news596153.html

The Malaysian government can say and do what it wants. Doesn't change the truth of what I said any more than what you write here on Aikiweb.

We can debate opinions but when we start arguing facts, there's nothing more to be said.

Rabih Shanshiry wrote: The Malaysian government can say and do what it wants. Doesn't change the truth of what I said any more than what you write here on Aikiweb.

What I said was: "Note also that in Malaysia, non-muslim citizens are probited by law to use the name Allah for God, in order not offend the sensitivities of the muslim Malays."

You protested, and I produced a link to prove it.

If you personally agree with the Malaysian government or not, is an entirely different topic. Please don´t shift the goal posts.

Willi Brix wrote: What I said was: "Note also that in Malaysia, non-muslim citizens are probited by law to use the name Allah for God, in order not offend the sensitivities of the muslim Malays." You protested, and I produced a link to prove it. If you personally agree with the Malaysian government or not, is an entirely different topic. Please don´t shift the goal posts.

The statement of yours that I and several others protested was:

"By the way, careful... God and Allah are very different concepts."

I don't have time for games. Out of respect for Jun and the original topic of this thread, I am now "bowing out."

Willi Brix wrote: I am not sure what you are saying --- that you are asking him to observe the etiquette in your dojo, or that you make it optional for him? By the way, careful... God and Allah are very different concepts. The commands of one are obviously very different from the other. Note also that in Malaysia, non-muslim citizens are probited by law to use the name Allah for God, in order not offend the sensitivities of the muslim Malays.

I am a Malaysian. Law, what law??

David Yap wrote: I am a Malaysian. Law, what law??

Are talking about your own anecdotal experience? That's no value in here, bro .

Alejandro Villanueva wrote: Are talking about your own anecdotal experience? That's no value in here, bro .

No, not my anecdotal experience If you guys choose to quote news sources on Malaysia I suggest that you do more in-depth research. Here we have both secular and sharia laws. Anyway, here is not the place to discuss.

First, you should research into our draconian Internal Security Act.

Rabih Shanshiry wrote: The statement of yours that I and several others protested was: "By the way, careful... God and Allah are very different concepts." I don't have time for games. Out of respect for Jun and the original topic of this thread, I am now "bowing out."

God and Allah are obviously very different concepts. Just compare the commands they give to mankind. IFyou believe they come from the same source, then you must logically believe that God/Allah is schizophrenic.

My reference to Malaysia was simply to underline that at least the Malaysian shariah authorities make that distinction; that was simply an illustration, not the main point.

Willi Brix wrote: ...My reference to Malaysia was simply to underline that at least the Malaysian shariah authorities make that distinction; that was simply an illustration, not the main point.

Now, this is an anecdotal experience. When have these "authorities" been known to make distinctions? Please show proof.

Willi Brix wrote: God and Allah are obviously very different concepts.

Yes. As obvious as your lack of understanding about the etymology, the religions, the cultures and the people.

David Yap wrote: Now, this is an anecdotal experience. When have these "authorities" been known to make distinctions? Please show proof.

The proof is in the law itself. If you did not make the distinction, the law would be meaningless. Think about it.

Willi Brix wrote: The proof is in the law itself. If you did not make the distinction, the law would be meaningless. Think about it.

The man lives there. He doesn't need to think about it. He lives it.

Alejandro Villanueva wrote: The man lives there. He doesn't need to think about it. He lives it.

And I suggest it would be a good idea to try thinking, regardless of where you live.

Of course, free thought and Shariah do not go well together.