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Old 09-17-2010, 01:40 AM   #1
torbjornsaw
 
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Everything is Self Evident

Seeing freed from mis-identification one sees the world in its true light and everything is seen as it is. False as false and true as true. All things perfect as they are. Of one taste, of one flavor. All being an expression of THAT which lays behind; the never changing nature. Seeing all in this true perspective one knows how to act in accordance with the changing circumstances. Everything and everybody are revealed by their appearances. Nothing is hidden. All being of one taste, there is nothing to avoid. Seeing freed from belief in separate self-hood reveals a limitless and timeless objective view. In THAT oneself and everything else is seen clearly just as it is. Scrutinizing this view one understands the inherent unreality of this world, one understands non-duality and one understands the futility of trying to know with the mind. The mind looses its power and is rightly brought down from its pedestal, to serve instead of rule. This seeing is the goal and the path. There is no other way. Establish yourself in it and avoid the temptation to indulge in argumentation. Know it for yourself.

As long as you harbor any ideas, any doubts about the absolute nature of yourself and as long as you can't with ease relax into this seeing, it will still obstruct you to be able to see clearly for more than a short period of time. Any condition that is not seen through will immediately hinder clear perception. Pride, anger, desire etc. if not seen in time will hamper your ability to act appropriately. As long as there is any need to keep yourself at arms length, at a safe distance, there haven't been a breakthrough and it will always keep you from true union, true love. Give up the idea of personal ego hood. Realize that there is nothing to protect, nothing to justify. Dare to give up the idea of being special.

Seeing things the way they really are can only be done from the not-known, and ones beautiful ability to respond rests solely on ones knowing of its radiance of love. Love is the power and the glory. Let it shine and transform your life.

Stay in touch always with your source, your true nature. Rest your desires in that hole of nothingness. Let them disappear in the burning light of the absolute. Bring your doubts, thoughts and feelings to that glowing wholeness of your being and see them burn up. When you act, You act. You decide. You have control. You act from the knowing and presence of total awareness, of the divine. Fall back, dive within, go deeper inside. Keep disappearing. Go on, move into the source, the hole, the field of nothing-whatsoever. Back to origin. Enter not-knowing and be present from that view, from that perspective. Now, always, forever more. Let any desire that tempt you to leave that place be burned by the fact of its ultimate falseness revealed by its own appearance.

Maya (illusion) is destroyed the moment it appears. You can see Maya appear, see it last, and see it disappear. You see form, you see it change. You see cause and effect, you see distinctions. Any thing seen is Maya. Everything cognizable is Maya. Maya is also all things still unseen. Even an idea is Maya. You are Maya.
Being free one is enlightened by all things. Life is shining up its illusion. A spectacle of light and form, a magical dance of light. A mirage, an illusion, a dream. Free to roam around. Free to sport in all various realms, blending with the conditions at hand. Free to ramble wherever at will. Always knowing ones source, always in touch. A free spirit. Free from form and freely using form. Maya is everything, you are nothing.

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Old 09-17-2010, 01:22 PM   #2
C. David Henderson
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Re: Everything is Self Evident

...Or so I've been told.

David Henderson
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Old 09-17-2010, 01:28 PM   #3
Chuck Clark
 
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Re: Everything is Self Evident

I knew a woman named Maya once...

and I agree, Maya is everything.

Chuck Clark
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Old 09-17-2010, 02:05 PM   #4
Rob Watson
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Re: Everything is Self Evident

Understanding is illusion.

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
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Old 09-17-2010, 02:11 PM   #5
BC
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Re: Everything is Self Evident

Okaaaaayyy........

Robert Cronin
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Old 09-17-2010, 02:46 PM   #6
niall
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Re: Everything is Self Evident

Maybe a soundtrack would help make it comprehensible. Here's a 1999 hit song by the Australian film director Baz Luhrman. It's got some practical advice about knees. And dancing. And sunscreen.

Everybody's Free (To Wear Sunscreen)

Ladies and Gentlemen of the class of ’99
If I could offer you only one tip for the future, sunscreen would be
it. The long term benefits of sunscreen have been proved by
scientists whereas the rest of my advice has no basis more reliable
than my own meandering experience…
I will dispense this advice now.
Enjoy the power and beauty of your youth; oh nevermind; you will not understand the power and beauty of your youth until they have faded.
But trust me, in 20 years you’ll look back at photos of yourself and
recall in a way you can’t grasp now how much possibility lay before
you and how fabulous you really looked…
You’re not as fat as you imagine.
Don’t worry about the future; or worry, but know that worrying is as
effective as trying to solve an algebra equation by chewing
bubblegum.
The real troubles in your life are apt to be things that
never crossed your worried mind; the kind that blindside you at 4pm on some idle Tuesday.
Do one thing every day that scares you
Sing
Don’t be reckless with other people’s hearts, don’t put up with
people who are reckless with yours.
Floss
Don’t waste your time on jealousy; sometimes you’re ahead, sometimes you’re behind…the race is long, and in the end, it’s only with yourself.
Remember the compliments you receive, forget the insults; if you
succeed in doing this, tell me how.
Keep your old love letters, throw away your old bank statements. Stretch
Don’t feel guilty if you don’t know what you want to do with your
life…the most interesting people I know didn’t know at 22 what they
wanted to do with their lives, some of the most interesting 40 year
olds I know still don’t.
Get plenty of calcium.
Be kind to your knees, you’ll miss them when they’re gone.
Maybe you’ll marry, maybe you won’t, maybe you’ll have children,maybe you won’t, maybe you’ll divorce at 40, maybe you’ll dance the funky chicken on your 75th wedding anniversary…
what ever you do, don’t congratulate yourself too much or berate yourself either – your choices are half chance, so are everybody else’s.
Enjoy your body, use it every way you can…don’t be afraid of it, or what other people think of it, it’s the greatest instrument you’ll ever
own..
Dance…even if you have nowhere to do it but in your own living room.
Read the directions, even if you don’t follow them.
Do NOT read beauty magazines, they will only make you feel ugly. Get to know your parents, you never know when they’ll be gone for
good.
Be nice to your siblings; they are the best link to your past and the
people most likely to stick with you in the future.
Understand that friends come and go,but for the precious few you
should hold on. Work hard to bridge the gaps in geography and
lifestyle because the older you get, the more you need the people you knew when you were young.
Live in New York City once, but leave before it makes you hard
Live in Northern California once, but leave before it makes you soft. Travel.
Accept certain inalienable truths, prices will rise, politicians will
philander, you too will get old, and when you do you’ll fantasize
that when you were young prices were reasonable, politicians were
noble and children respected their elders.
Respect your elders.
Don’t expect anyone else to support you. Maybe you have a trust fund, maybe you have a wealthy spouse; but you never know when either one might run out.
Don’t mess too much with your hair, or by the time you're 40, it will
look 85.
Be careful whose advice you buy, but, be patient with those who
supply it. Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of
fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the
ugly parts and recycling it for more than it’s worth.
But trust me on the sunscreen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTJ7AzBIJoI

we can make our minds so like still water, and so live for a moment with a clearer, perhaps even with a fiercer life
w b yeats


aikiweb blog|wordpress blog
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Old 09-17-2010, 02:56 PM   #7
thisisnotreal
 
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Re: Everything is Self Evident

Quote:
Waters, Roger; Gilmour, David Jon wrote:

"Wish You Were Here"

So, so you think you can tell Heaven from Hell,
blue skies from pain.
Can you tell a green field from a cold steel rail?
A smile from a veil?
Do you think you can tell?
And did they get you to trade your heroes for ghosts?
Hot ashes for trees?
Hot air for a cool breeze?
Cold comfort for change?
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage?
How I wish, how I wish you were here.
We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl, year after year,
Running over the same old ground.
What have we found? The same old fears.
Wish you were here.
A song I'm reminded of in this context.
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Old 09-17-2010, 03:17 PM   #8
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Everything is Self Evident

I had a hard time following some of the stream of you consciousness, but certain phrases stood out to me...and I get the vague sense I agree with your general perspective, even if I don't necessarily understand your meaning in many places, or would choose to word it differently.

Quote:
Bjorn Saw wrote: View Post
Nothing is hidden.
It sounds like you could be talking about omniscience here, but do you mean enough of everything is revealed. That is to say, "nothing [you need] is hidden"?

Quote:
Scrutinizing this view one understands the inherent unreality of this world, one understands non-duality and one understands the futility of trying to know with the mind.
My sense of this aspect would describe it as "understands the inherent unreality of our perception of this world." I would also agree it is far too easy for folks to get caught up in dualistic thinking which leads perhaps more easily toward conflicting ideas/behaviors (where otherwise there wouldn't have been any form of conflict at all). Which leads me to my next question: how do you reconcile the idea that one should contemplate not using the mind in order to know something? I mean, in asking me to consider this you're asking me to engage my mind a bit, right?
I hear a lot of rhetoric about "get rid of the mind; get rid of the ego" but I view statements like these as being a kind of hyperbole designed to focus a person on not over-thinking or being too ego-driven...So the language seems lop-sided in the opposite direction as that which it seeks to help remedy (i.e. a dualistic response, rather than an inclusive one). I suppose part of my view which might play out on this idea is that I don't see the mind and perception as being different things. To my "understanding," (and for all intents and purposes) mind essentially is perception, but most folks over-apply certain perceptions. For example, my perception that i should protect myself when threatened might overshadow the fact that I can make a new friend (drawing on a personal experience here).

A big part of your message resonates with my attempt at "understanding" as much as I possibly can (in order to be as actualized as I possibly can, right?). I think it's important to point out the illusory nature of the mind, but I also think it's important to recognize the harmonizing power of the mind. I guess it sounds like you might be speaking of one aspect of the mind as if it were the whole...I don't see illusion as everything, strictly speaking. I see it as part of everything within human perception.

...You know, I really love this metaphysics and psychological stuff, but it always leaves me feeling ignorant....which I guess Socrates would suggest is probably a good thing....and which I'm guessing speaks to your phrase:
Quote:
Seeing things the way they really are can only be done from the not-known...
...Assuming I understand your meaning there, of course...We should all probably do more to respect our own ignorance.

p.s. Great song references, Niall and Josh!!!

Last edited by mathewjgano : 09-17-2010 at 03:27 PM.

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 09-17-2010, 04:03 PM   #9
C. David Henderson
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Re: Everything is Self Evident

FWIW, I perceived this to be a pretty conventional statement of buddhist concepts, not-too-idiosyncratically expressed. I have no objection to content, but found the length, tone and use of the third person "You" a bit preachy for my tastes, and a bit ironic given the subject matter.

Then, I am frequently mistaken, my friends kindly point out.

David Henderson
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Old 09-17-2010, 04:07 PM   #10
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Re: Everything is Self Evident

Quote:
Matthew Gano wrote: View Post
My sense of this aspect would describe it as "understands the inherent unreality of our perception of this world."
If this is a Buddhist reference, as it seems to be...my interpretation of the whole "all is illusion" thang is different. The way I understand the teaching, the illusion is not in the world and not in your perception of it, but in your belief that what you perceive is true, permanent, and immutable. A zen teacher who was talking on the subject passed his watch around the class and asked each person in turn, "Is it a watch, or is it not a watch?" People tried answering "It's a watch" -- wrong answer. People tried answering "It's not a watch" -- again, wrong answer. When it came to me (with the benefit of my teacher's comments as it went around the circle to help me), I looked at the watch and answered, "It's ten minutes to eight." Correct answer -- in that instant. In a minute, it would no longer be ten minutes to eight. And in a century, or a year, or a day, it might no longer be a watch, even broadly defined -- it might cease to work. Eventually it would return to its elemental parts,and be a watch no more.

Quote:
Matthew Gano wrote: View Post
Which leads me to my next question: how do you reconcile the idea that one should contemplate not using the mind in order to know something? I mean, in asking me to consider this you're asking me to engage my mind a bit, right?
I hear a lot of rhetoric about "get rid of the mind; get rid of the ego" but I view statements like these as being a kind of hyperbole designed to focus a person on not over-thinking or being too ego-driven...
It depends on your definition of "think", I guess. Obviously understanding doesn't happen without biochemical activity in the brain, and if you view any brain activity as "thinking", then that's what you're when you come to any comprehension. On the other hand...consider the comparison with the verb "driving". "Driving" is obviously how a car gets from one point to another, but it doesn't have to be the only way. It can get hauled on a flatbed, towed behind a wrecker, pushed from behind by a couple of people while another person steers. It can roll downhill and "get somewhere" because you forgot to set the parking brake. And you can be sitting behind the wheel, engine on, in gear, stepping on the gas..."driving" away for all you're worth, but going nowhere because your wheels are on ice. Thinking", in some Buddhist argot, refers not to just any mental activity, but to a kind of dwelling on things, maybe analogous to that car spinning its wheels on ice, or other kinds of fruitless or distracted mental activity.

Quote:
Matthew Gano wrote: View Post
So the language seems lop-sided in the opposite direction as that which it seeks to help remedy (i.e. a dualistic response, rather than an inclusive one).
Oh, sure. Fragments of esoteric-sounding language are great tools of obfuscation, and obfuscation is a great technique for creating a duality of initiates and hoi polloi. OTOH, some of this woo-woo sounding stuff is for real, and some of it is just crap. People take a 15 minute tour of Zen and hear exchanges like "What is the Buddha?" "Three pounds of flax!" that make no sense to them, and they think that's all it is -- just make up some esoteric-sounding nonsense, and that's the right answer.

Quote:
Matthew Gano wrote: View Post
A big part of your message resonates with my attempt at "understanding" as much as I possibly can (in order to be as actualized as I possibly can, right?). I think it's important to point out the illusory nature of the mind, but I also think it's important to recognize the harmonizing power of the mind. I guess it sounds like you might be speaking of one aspect of the mind as if it were the whole...I don't see illusion as everything, strictly speaking. I see it as part of everything within human perception.
I would say belief rather than perception -- they're different things. The rock is; the illusion is in the belief that the rock is permanent and immutable (and also that I understand its nature, in most cases). Getting past this doesn't involve getting the "right answer" (is it a watch? Is it not a watch? which is the right answer?), but understanding that this instant's "right answer" will cease to be true in the next instant.
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Old 09-17-2010, 05:06 PM   #11
thisisnotreal
 
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Re: Everything is Self Evident

Quote:
Josh Philipson wrote: View Post
A song I'm reminded of in this context.
unbelievable. wrong link.....wish you were here
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Old 09-17-2010, 05:19 PM   #12
Janet Rosen
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Re: Everything is Self Evident

Quote:
Chuck Clark wrote: View Post
I knew a woman named Maya once...
and I agree, Maya is everything.
What's maya is your's and what's your's is maya.

Janet Rosen
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"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 09-18-2010, 02:08 AM   #13
Keith Larman
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Re: Everything is Self Evident

I like turtles...

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Old 09-18-2010, 02:10 AM   #14
torbjornsaw
 
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Re: Everything is Self Evident

Quote:
Matthew Gano wrote: View Post
It sounds like you could be talking about omniscience here, but do you mean enough of everything is revealed. That is to say, "nothing [you need] is hidden"?

Here I mean that anything and everything that is manifested is seen just as it is. All things and beings present themselves as they are. Appearances, words and deeds gives us all away.

How do you reconcile the idea that one should contemplate not using the mind in order to know something?

No please use your mind. Use it as a wedge to drive into reality.
Hope it clarifies?

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Old 09-18-2010, 01:39 PM   #15
Chuck Clark
 
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Re: Everything is Self Evident

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
What's maya is your's and what's your's is maya.
Janet....

Chuck Clark
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Old 09-18-2010, 05:07 PM   #16
Rob Watson
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Re: Everything is Self Evident

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
What's maya is your's and what's your's is maya.
For gods sake do not confuse mayo for Maya. Mayo does actually seem to go with everything. I too once knew a lady named Maya and while maybe not everything there was certainly more than I could handle. Might have have something to do with the dreaded mayo incident ...

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
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Old 09-18-2010, 05:57 PM   #17
Janet Rosen
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Re: Everything is Self Evident

Quote:
Robert M Watson Jr wrote: View Post
For gods sake do not confuse mayo for Maya. Mayo does actually seem to go with everything. I too once knew a lady named Maya and while maybe not everything there was certainly more than I could handle. Might have have something to do with the dreaded mayo incident ...
Well, Rob, iaoli know what I'm told; having mustard all the facts I'm sure we will relish further discussions on this point.

Janet Rosen
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"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 09-18-2010, 07:16 PM   #18
phitruong
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Re: Everything is Self Evident

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
Well, Rob, iaoli know what I'm told; having mustard all the facts I'm sure we will relish further discussions on this point.
it's self evident that you can only spread reality so far. after a while, it will be so waffle thin as though being sprinkle on and left to be seasoned or to be half-baked in dewness of thyme. however, if one is willing to taste the salt of reality in its full bittersweet, one would reap all the grain of truth to build the core fibre of one's inert nature.
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Old 09-19-2010, 02:51 AM   #19
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Re: Everything is Self Evident

If "Everything is Self Evident" then we don't need someone to tell us about it?

David
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