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Old 09-19-2010, 05:59 PM   #51
dps
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Re: Tsuki Iriminage - Step back hand grab

Also if someone throws a punch and you step back off line then the attacker steps forward for another punch, this provides an opportunity for off balancing your opponent.

David

Last edited by dps : 09-19-2010 at 06:02 PM.
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Old 09-19-2010, 10:42 PM   #52
WilliB
Dojo: Minato Aikikai
Location: Tokyo
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Re: Tsuki Iriminage - Step back hand grab

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
I do not know the Japanese language and am relying on the internet for definitions. I hope those more knowledgeable will comment.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_th...word_for_punch
"If you are referring to the verb 'to punch,' you may say 'naguru.'

I was taught tsuki meant thrust like with a knife, jo, similar to a push or grab. In this context stepping back off line increases your distance between you and uke and gives you a better opportunity to unbalance your opponent .
Just one definition of tsuki that the technique fits.
David
I know a bit of Japanese, and I can assure you that tsuki refers not only to a knife thrust, but to all sorts of punches too. (What in Aikido is called a "tsuki" is an oi-tsuki if you want to be technical.)

And naguru is a verb, not a noun. And you don´t really hear it in martial arts descriptions, it is more something you´d hear your kid complain about in the playground.

hth
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Old 09-19-2010, 10:55 PM   #53
Aikibu
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Re: Tsuki Iriminage - Step back hand grab

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
Also if someone throws a punch and you step back off line then the attacker steps forward for another punch, this provides an opportunity for off balancing your opponent.

David
??? No...It provides the skilled attacker with the initiative because you're still reacting to his movement...Only in Aikido do you see punches "thrown" without regard to counters feints and combination's on the part of Uke... Always assume "other hand coming!" ( As Masa Tazakai Sensei used to scream LOL).

William Hazen
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Old 09-20-2010, 12:18 AM   #54
dps
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Re: Tsuki Iriminage - Step back hand grab

Quote:
Willi Brix wrote: View Post
I know a bit of Japanese, and I can assure you that tsuki refers not only to a knife thrust, but to all sorts of punches too. (What in Aikido is called a "tsuki" is an oi-tsuki if you want to be technical.)
That was part of my point.
David

Last edited by dps : 09-20-2010 at 12:23 AM.
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Old 09-20-2010, 12:29 AM   #55
dps
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Re: Tsuki Iriminage - Step back hand grab

Quote:
William Hazen wrote: View Post
Only in Aikido do you see punches "thrown" without regard to counters feints and combination's on the part of Uke... ( As Masa Tazakai Sensei used to scream LOL).
Not iif your sensei knows how to box.

David
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Old 09-20-2010, 06:19 AM   #56
grondahl
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Re: Tsuki Iriminage - Step back hand grab

Funny, I see these kind of attacks in almost all martial arts that does not do some kind of "alive" training.

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William Hazen wrote: View Post
Only in Aikido do you see punches "thrown" without regard to counters feints and combination's on the part of Uke...
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Old 09-20-2010, 10:43 AM   #57
Aikibu
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Re: Tsuki Iriminage - Step back hand grab

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David Skaggs wrote: View Post
Not iif your sensei knows how to box.

David
Cool. So I guess that means he does not teach this technique then?

William Hazen
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Old 09-20-2010, 10:47 AM   #58
Aikibu
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Re: Tsuki Iriminage - Step back hand grab

Quote:
Peter Gröndahl wrote: View Post
Funny, I see these kind of attacks in almost all martial arts that does not do some kind of "alive" training.
Agreed......However...I've experienced some pretty badass Martial Artists who do nothing but Kata 98% of the time (The other 2% are spent kicking my butt on the mat).

One's attitude and focus go a long way....

William Hazen
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Old 09-20-2010, 07:40 PM   #59
David Yap
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Re: Tsuki Iriminage - Step back hand grab

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Basia Halliop wrote: View Post
Regarding zombie arm...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKhYHrJHA6k

Apparently the problem is not entirely unknown in other arts too .
Yes, Jim Carey's "you're attacking me wrongly" video. Indeed we can find McSensei in other arts too. The problem is more prevalent in Aikido. When you find a McSensei in Aikido there will always be a cult in his dojo protecting his incompetency.
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Old 09-26-2010, 08:51 PM   #60
ctoor
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Re: Tsuki Iriminage - Step back hand grab

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
Why are you concerned about figuuring it out?

Sounds like excellent advice and probably the best for all Aikido techniques.

David
Hi David: 'figure it out later' means to me just go through the motions without thinking about it, and hope it works without an explanation of why this is good against 'ZAOD' ( ) as well as a quick-3-punch boxer (like, jab,jab,hook). However, if my sensei said this is mental practice or timing practice, then I would feel better about just doing it, you know? But I was just told to do it and figure it out later. I asked why we do it, and the response was, "Because we have always done it."
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Old 10-29-2010, 12:17 AM   #61
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: Tsuki Iriminage - Step back hand grab

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
Why are you concerned about figuuring it out?

Sounds like excellent advice and probably the best for all Aikido techniques.

David
That's rather like my parents who said, "You'll understand when you're grown up. Well, I am almost sixty and a grandfather, and many of the things they said still make no sense to me... I figure that, if it's ever going to make sense, it's explainable right now.

There may be something that, even with the best explanation, will not really be understood without lots of practice. But, in my experience, when a teacher starts in on just do it and you'll understand later, he is usually either not comfortable with the technique enough to explain it coherently or is simply feeling to lazy at the time to do so.

The exception to this is in the case of the relatively rare student who is totally up in his head and wants to over analyze everything... then it's shut up and train time.

As for the "why are you concerned with figuring it out?" question, well, because that's your job.

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
Bellevue, WA
Aikido Eastside
AikidoDvds.Com
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