Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-20-2002, 12:38 PM   #51
cbrf4zr2
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 114
Offline
Freaky!

Brian....

Shhhhh.....that's me screaming.

************************
...then again, that's just me.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2002, 01:09 PM   #52
nmarques
Dojo: Budo Centrum Schuttersveld
Location: Enschede
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 6
Offline
Grr! Run in wich conditions ?

Depending on the circunstance, I would personally stay, like, lets say I was there with my girlfriend or family while some wild dude attacked us with a knife... Well they could run, I would stay to give them the edge they needed to get the hell outta there... The most important I dont think it is the point of the knife, but who has the knife!... A good knife with some combat technique in how to use it, sorry but that is a worthy opponent, hitting the backpeddal and fleeing that is something that I would ponder, if I detected somehow the guy knew how to use it, but someone like a average junkie or cheap pick-pocketeer, I dont think I would. Like always it depends a lot on the circunstance and in "your/whoever" cold blood to figure out what is really happening. Like someone used to say "I dont run off like a scared dog, I run off like a wolf so I can fight the battle some other day". Guns are amusing, once in the past we're talking about movies and my former kickboxing master just gave his humble opinion "For how faster and how good your technique might be, it is ALWAYS faster to pull the trigger".

In a fast way, in presence of people who could not defend themselfs, I would stick around and face it so they could flee, then time would say if I would flee or face it to whatever end it might be. Alone, if I suspected it was someone with weapons training, and that is easy to see depending on wich kind of knife and how it is handled, well, flee could be a nice choise, and probably would end up in the dilema between a wild pig and a cheetah...

The wild pig runs as much as he can, when he realizes that he is tired and cant run more, he stops, turns back and charges at the cheetah. Cheetah's always win this classic battle.

If the guy was the sort of junkie I am used to see in holland or portugal, or the cheap criminal, that would be a big mistake for him. (or maybe for me ).

--
Windows is a nice workaround untill you change to a GNU/Linux System.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2002, 05:14 PM   #53
SeiserL
 
SeiserL's Avatar
Dojo: Roswell Budokan, Kyushinkan Dojo, Aikido World Alliance
Location: Roswell, GA USA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,704
United_States
Offline
Do symbol

"Never run away from any kind of challenge, but do not try to suppress or control an opponent unnaturally. Let attackers come any way they like and then blend with them. Never chase after opponents. Redirect each attack and get firmly behind it."

O'Sensei Morihei Ueshiba
The Art of Peace (John Stevens)

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2002, 08:21 AM   #54
Brian Vickery
Dojo: Aiki-Buken Aikido
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 208
United_States
Offline
Wink

Quote:
Originally posted by SeiserL
"Never run away from any kind of challenge, but do not try to suppress or control an opponent unnaturally. Let attackers come any way they like and then blend with them. Never chase after opponents. Redirect each attack and get firmly behind it."

O'Sensei Morihei Ueshiba
The Art of Peace (John Stevens)
...I believe that was General George Custer's last quote also!

Brian Vickery

"The highest level of technique to achieve is that of having NO technique!"
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2002, 09:39 AM   #55
George S. Ledyard
 
George S. Ledyard's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Eastside
Location: Bellevue, WA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,629
Offline
Shameless Self Promotion

Quote:
Originally posted by akiy

I've heard the concept of moving backwards during randori to be nearly an anathema in aikido circles as it "draws your ukes towards you like a funnel," but it seemed to work OK for him during the randori if I saw it correctly. I believe Georde Ledyard was commenting on how if you go backwards then run a "J" or "hook" pattern off to the side, you'll very often "line up" all of the uke that you have, making them much easier to throw one at a time.

Of course, my last attempt at randori (with five attackers) was pretty hopeless and had my instructor commenting on how I (as well as others) needed more work on our randori, so you'll have to take my thoughts with a grain or two of salt...

-- Jun
Let me say that I apologize for promoting our own event but it seems relevant to the discussion. We have a Four Day Randori Intensive every year on Labor day weekend. We have been doing this kind of thing for 13 years and have worked out a very systematic approach to teaching randori. The event is open to anyone with solid ukemi skills which would probably be about third kyu or higher. If anyone wants to attend just contact me. I am sure we can put you up so don't worry about that.

I say this because I contsntly hear comments from folks about their randori skills yet very few people actually teach randori. We have worked out what I think is a very good program which isolates the various movement principles of randori and also has some interesting exercies to make them clear but not many people have actually been able to see the program. It isn't usually possible to teach randori when I get invited to teach a seminar due to space limitations and wide experience levels. I did get a chance to do a very abbreviated portion of it for Kimberly Richardson Sensei's folks (as my contribution to helping her husband, Dan, get ready for San Dan). They seemed to find it helpful.

Anyway, I would welcome anyone who wishes to work on this aspect of their Aikido. We will practice about seven hours per day and the limit is fourteen students so it is a very small group so you get maximum attention. My e-mail is: aikigeorge@aikieast.com.

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
Bellevue, WA
Aikido Eastside
AikidoDvds.Com
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2002, 10:24 AM   #56
Chuck Clark
 
Chuck Clark's Avatar
Dojo: Jiyushinkan
Location: Monroe, Washington
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,134
United_States
Offline
George,

We're just getting ready to start our annual Shochugeiko (hot weather training) tomorrow. Five days of 6 - 8 hours of training per day at the Jiyushinkan in Tempe, Arizona.

This year our focus is on taninsu dori (multiple attackers). We also have a very well developed method of teaching the principles and strategy of this practice.

Wish you were here (and vice versa).

Regards,

Chuck Clark
Jiyushinkai Aikibudo
www.jiyushinkai.org
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2002, 10:31 AM   #57
Brian H
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 102
Offline
Hello Edward,

....say that you are walking down the street, a guy approaches you, pulls a knife out, starts slashing it around screaming: "Satan requires your soul!" ...he's obviuosly not all there, probably on drugs, you can't reason with him, though you can sure try! ...are you telling me you're going to use you 'martail arts training' to handle this situation?!?! ...you have the opportunity to get out of there, but you'd rather go toe-to-toe wih this nut-case?!?! ...*LOL*...you're crazier than he is if you do!!!

...train hard my friend, you're going to need it!


Regards, [/b][/quote]

OK, instead enter into hamni, draw pistol and place front sight on Mr. "Coo-Coo for Coco puffs". Give loud and clear verbal commands for him to drop weapon and lay on ground. If he fails to comply AND moves toward you or a third party in a threatening manner, fire into center of mass until hostile action has ceased.

Sic Semper Tyrannis
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2002, 10:35 AM   #58
akiy
 
akiy's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 5,835
Offline
Quote:
Originally posted by George S. Ledyard
We have a Four Day Randori Intensive every year on Labor day weekend. We have been doing this kind of thing for 13 years and have worked out a very systematic approach to teaching randori.
Drool...
Quote:
Originally posted by Chuck Clark
We're just getting ready to start our annual Shochugeiko (hot weather training) tomorrow. Five days of 6 - 8 hours of training per day at the Jiyushinkan in Tempe, Arizona.
Drool, again...

Some day, I'll make it out to Seattle, George. And also, some day, I'll make it back to your Shochugeiko, Chuck...

-- Jun

Please help support AikiWeb -- become an AikiWeb Contributing Member!
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2002, 11:02 AM   #59
Brian Vickery
Dojo: Aiki-Buken Aikido
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 208
United_States
Offline
Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally posted by BRIAN H

OK, instead enter into hamni, draw pistol and place front sight on Mr. "Coo-Coo for Coco puffs"....
Hi Brian,

...now this is the best response so far! When faced with a weapon, stay out of that weapon's effective range & deploy a superior weapon!

Bravo!

Brian Vickery

"The highest level of technique to achieve is that of having NO technique!"
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2002, 12:01 PM   #60
Krzysiek
Dojo: El Cerrito, CA
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 28
Offline
Quote:
Originally posted by Brian Vickery


Hi Brian,

...now this is the best response so far! When faced with a weapon, stay out of that weapon's effective range & deploy a superior weapon!

Bravo!
That's why I always carry a grenade with me...

I think I would be one of the dilusional Aikidoist since my answer to the knife-wielding maniac would be Aikido: run or deal with him/her without killing or permanent damage. Self and friends before attacker. BTW: I've been in situations like this... it's still worth it to me.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2002, 01:20 PM   #61
Jim ashby
Dojo: Phoenix Coventry
Location: Coventry, England
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 303
Offline
Run if you can. Getting stabbed hurts. Trust me.
Have fun.

Vir Obesus Stola Saeptus
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2002, 01:52 PM   #62
Erik
Location: Bay Area
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,200
Offline
Quote:
Originally posted by Jim ashby
Run if you can. Getting stabbed hurts. Trust me.
Have fun.
You know, both times I've had a sharp object enter me: once a piece of glass, which was a stupid move with garbage and the other a knife which was a stupid dojo trick, I didn't feel a thing. No pain at all other than the realization that something had just gone very wrong.

I suppose having it stuck in my ribs might lead to a different experience.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2002, 02:10 PM   #63
Brian Vickery
Dojo: Aiki-Buken Aikido
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 208
United_States
Offline
Quote:
Originally posted by Erik


You know, both times I've had a sharp object enter me: once a piece of glass, which was a stupid move with garbage and the other a knife which was a stupid dojo trick, I didn't feel a thing. No pain at all other than the realization that something had just gone very wrong.
Hi Erik,

While I was training in Colorado last month, Peyton Quinn talked about the 4 knife attacks he was involved in, in which he got cut in all of them. 3 of them he didn't even see the knife and didn't realize until after it was over that he got cut ...no pain, just lots of blood. (The 4th he saw the knife coming & knew that he got cut.)

...so he had the same experience as you had getting cut! Strange deal!

Regards,

Brian Vickery

"The highest level of technique to achieve is that of having NO technique!"
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2002, 02:42 PM   #64
Krzysiek
Dojo: El Cerrito, CA
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 28
Offline
Quote:
Originally posted by Jim ashby
Run if you can. Getting stabbed hurts. Trust me.
Have fun.
I definately agree.



Might not hurt when it happends but I hate having to wait to heal.

I also think pulling a gun hurts and leaving someone unable to walk or see hurts. Anyway.

Back to the thread topic:

In fencing this run or not run thing is also very important. Since running is not an option (if you go off the end of the strip you loose a point) a retreat is always tactical. You speed up so your opponent follows, slow down so they think they're close enough to attack, speed up to make sure their attack doesn't reach and score because they've over-reached and can't defend. It works _great_ on anybody as long as you can pull it off.

The key in pulling it off is footwork: if you slip anywhere you loose the maneuver and your opponent is going to roll over you... I think this is the same problem in running from an opponent. You need to know: how sharp a turn can you make? how fast can you stop? fast can you run? How decisively can you turn around and depart.... it's not something you practice in the dojo and it does take skill.

--Krzysiek
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2002, 02:48 AM   #65
Jim ashby
Dojo: Phoenix Coventry
Location: Coventry, England
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 303
Offline
My experience was unusual for the UK, I was actually armed at the time of the attack. I was not as aware as I should have been (or as aware as I am now, all the time) and I too didn't see the knife. I originally thought I'd blocked an uppercut to my stomach and, after the attacker was no longer willing/able to continue the encounter, I looked at my left arm where the knife was still stuck. Damn it hurt!!! Still does on cold/damp days, I also lost some fine motor skills and feeling in my fingers. Like I said, run if you can.
Have fun.

Vir Obesus Stola Saeptus
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2002, 04:12 AM   #66
George S. Ledyard
 
George S. Ledyard's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Eastside
Location: Bellevue, WA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,629
Offline
Seminar

Quote:
Originally posted by Chuck Clark
George,

We're just getting ready to start our annual Shochugeiko (hot weather training) tomorrow. Five days of 6 - 8 hours of training per day at the Jiyushinkan in Tempe, Arizona.

This year our focus is on taninsu dori (multiple attackers). We also have a very well developed method of teaching the principles and strategy of this practice.

Wish you were here (and vice versa).

Regards,
So much training, so little time! I would love to come down to play sometime! This year is already full though. I've been working huge amounts of part time security work just to cover the traiing I'm doing this year. Need to clear the Expo, Boulder Camp, etc. off the credit card before I even think of another trip to make.

We did just purchase a digital camcorder so that we can put some of the stuff we've worked out onto video. That would make it a lot more accessible than it being just for the folks who visit us directly.

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
Bellevue, WA
Aikido Eastside
AikidoDvds.Com
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Seminar with Frank Doran, Shihan - Aug. 8-10, 2014 at Sunset Cliff's Aikido, near San Diego's finest beaches



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Poll: How realistic a goal do you feel is the "aikido" notion of defending yourself while minimizing or negating damage done to your attacker? AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 26 05-16-2005 05:12 AM
randori with superuke Lorien Lowe Techniques 17 09-19-2004 06:19 PM
Systema Seminar with Vladimir Vasiliev, Part 1 aikibaka131 Seminars 2 07-22-2003 12:45 PM
Disabling the attacker through the art of peace Suru General 13 10-08-2002 04:36 AM
Randori DavidM Techniques 6 07-08-2002 07:56 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:55 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate