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Old 07-01-2010, 06:01 AM   #1
Daniel Lloyd
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Aikido - Breaking the barrier

Ever experienced those times where you're out in the public - waiting for a bus or train and some people give you a stare or something similar?

I'm not sure if it's just me but I get a satisfying feeling when I look at said person and smile or nod - which they relax and smile or nod back. I love that fact that Aikido (for me) can break the barrier between strangers and allow people to make friends.

Has anyone else had situations (maybe even situations were near the peak of physical conflict) where all you did was smile or nod/wave and the conflict just melted away?

*I've had several of these experiences and I find that the more I practice Aikido, the more approachable I become. Due to being relaxed and happy with life.*
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Old 07-01-2010, 06:28 AM   #2
CarlRylander
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Re: Aikido - Breaking the barrier

I'm reassured.

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Old 07-01-2010, 08:28 AM   #3
CarlRylander
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Re: Aikido - Breaking the barrier

I think that things have settled out a bit more, in the world.

There is conflict, but it is resolved and as you said there are ways of stopping it in the first place.
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Old 07-01-2010, 09:24 AM   #4
Gorgeous George
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Re: Aikido - Breaking the barrier

No: the dude just said stuff like 'I'm not scared of you', and 'It's none of your business if i beat my wife in public' etc.
I think if his wife had smiled at the abuse, he would have become even more irate in front of their baby.
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Old 07-01-2010, 09:50 AM   #5
Lyle Laizure
 
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Re: Aikido - Breaking the barrier

Being approachable is a double edge sword.

Lyle Laizure
www.hinodedojo.com
Deru kugi wa uta reru
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Old 07-01-2010, 10:05 AM   #6
RED
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Re: Aikido - Breaking the barrier

Quote:
George Howard wrote: View Post
No: the dude just said stuff like 'I'm not scared of you', and 'It's none of your business if i beat my wife in public' etc.
I think if his wife had smiled at the abuse, he would have become even more irate in front of their baby.
...

MM
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Old 07-01-2010, 12:32 PM   #7
Gorgeous George
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Re: Aikido - Breaking the barrier

Quote:
Maggie Schill wrote: View Post
...
Haha. It was even more hilarious that, after i had to leave my house around the corner from theirs to go to stop him abusing her (after first calling the police and being told they had already being called), i saw the person living two doors down watching from behind his curtains, and smiling/rolling his eyes at me, like 'This guy, eh?' - like it was just another wacky day with this crazy bastard: what will he do next?!???!

I do feel guilty now, however: i should have intervened way sooner - after he hit her in the head with a massive bag, in fact.
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Old 07-01-2010, 01:46 PM   #8
RED
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Re: Aikido - Breaking the barrier

Quote:
George Howard wrote: View Post
a massive bag, .
Massive bag? Like a grocery bag? Or, a loud old women?

MM
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Old 07-01-2010, 03:25 PM   #9
Gorgeous George
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Re: Aikido - Breaking the barrier

Quote:
Maggie Schill wrote: View Post
Massive bag? Like a grocery bag? Or, a loud old women?
Hahaha. If he had hit her with a loud old woman, you can be certain i wouldn't have fucked with him: i would have told the police to bring guns, and stood well back.

It wasn't a grocery bag: it was about the size of a suitcase, and looked as though it was packed with clothes; she was attempting to leave his ass, so that seems likely.

Last edited by Gorgeous George : 07-01-2010 at 03:26 PM. Reason: 'well', not 'weel'
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Old 07-01-2010, 08:25 PM   #10
JW
 
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Re: Aikido - Breaking the barrier

[quote=George Howard;260393 she was attempting to leave his ass, so that seems likely.[/QUOTE]

Well that part at least is good news. Did she ever succeed? Do you know what happened to her?

Daniel, glad to hear about your successes. I love aikido too, but the relaxed and happy in life part doesn't necessarily come with that. But, what good are we if we don't make the world better in the face of nastiness? Thanks for helping, and good luck!
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Old 07-01-2010, 09:10 PM   #11
niall
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Re: Aikido - Breaking the barrier

In Japan in the eighties in a famous case a foreign karateka intervened in a similar physical abuse situation. Unfortunately it ended in the death of the original assaulter (apparently he hit his head on the corner of the pavement). The karateka was charged with murder and then manslaughter before the case was finally thrown out by the Supreme Court. It sent shockwaves through the budo world at the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Bellamy

http://www.debito.org/?p=83

we can make our minds so like still water, and so live for a moment with a clearer, perhaps even with a fiercer life
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Old 07-02-2010, 02:52 AM   #12
CarlRylander
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Re: Aikido - Breaking the barrier

Did Ueshiba say you should intervene?

Just being there and capable stops some people.

I've stopped somethings from escalating, with a puzzled frown!

Sometimes, just not getting sucked in and being a rock of calm does the trick.
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Old 07-02-2010, 03:32 AM   #13
niall
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Re: Aikido - Breaking the barrier

Intervening is a personal decision. It's nothing to do with O Sensei. I would always intervene and I suspect most people who do budo would - as humans more than budokas. Carl is right that intervention does not mean have to mean physical intervention. I think only once I have needed to use an aikido technique in this kind of situation (although I have used aikido in a larger sense many times - which is more what Daniel was talking about). When a man tried to punch a woman in front of me I was able to catch the punch before it landed and turn him round and get him out of there. Once though in a very similar situation when a friend and I confronted a man who had just slapped a woman hard in the face the woman turned on us and angrily told us to mind our own business. Oh well.

Last edited by niall : 07-02-2010 at 03:38 AM.

we can make our minds so like still water, and so live for a moment with a clearer, perhaps even with a fiercer life
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Old 07-02-2010, 09:09 AM   #14
Gorgeous George
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Re: Aikido - Breaking the barrier

Quote:
Jonathan Wong wrote: View Post
Well that part at least is good news. Did she ever succeed? Do you know what happened to her?

Daniel, glad to hear about your successes. I love aikido too, but the relaxed and happy in life part doesn't necessarily come with that. But, what good are we if we don't make the world better in the face of nastiness? Thanks for helping, and good luck!
When the police showed up, they didn't even arrest him; but he did leave, however, and she stayed. She lives across the road from me, and i haven't heard any more abuse since, so for the time being she's ok.
Thing is with people like that though, is that they can't let it lie as it is, so i know he'll be back at some point - either to beat her, or perhaps even stab her...you never know.

@ Carl: In Koichi Tohei's book 'Aikido: Co-ordination of...for the Purpose of Self-Defence', he says that you can use it when you're in personal danger, when another is, or 'At a large meeting, when a small number of rogues is making a nuisance of themselves and inconveniencing or endangering the public'.
But you must first make every effort 'to settle matters peaceably. Only when such efforts seem useless should the arts of aikido be used.
Any one who has learned the principles of non-resistance and still prefers fighting is considered a failure as a student'.

@ Niall: haha, i know what you mean - i once read about somebody who intervened to stop a man beating a woman, and she started attacking him. I've also seen a woman slapped in the street by 'her man', so hard one of her ear-rings came out...she then tearfully followed after him, hoping for a reconciliation.
I mean, there's only so much you can do for certain people, even if it will lead to their death.
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Old 07-03-2010, 04:05 AM   #15
CarlRylander
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Re: Aikido - Breaking the barrier

I've been spat at. Looking back, I should have have just gone and sat in the other bar. It's difficult for me, cos some places I have been, I'm despicable in the eyes of many, but there should be some way to defuse situations without being a complete waste of space, in order to fit in. I can't help but wind people up, sometimes, just by existing, and that's not physical or mental Aikido! I've got another thirty or forty years left to learn, I suppose.

Last edited by akiy : 09-22-2010 at 11:19 AM.
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Old 07-03-2010, 05:36 AM   #16
CarlRylander
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Re: Aikido - Breaking the barrier

Good aikidokists should make sure they are in the right place at the right time, too!
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Old 07-03-2010, 03:57 PM   #17
Randy Sexton
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Re: Aikido - Breaking the barrier

Thinking about this leads me to remember Yoda's line to Anakin Skywalker:
"Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering"

When you look into their heart most anger is based on self desired wants or needs. The guy who you accidentally bump into is afraid he is going to be hurt by you (fear) or afraid of losing respect by his friends or girl if he does not retaliate (fear) or he may react spontaneously in retaliation (anger). Or the guy who purposely bumps into you looking for a fight is seeking to boost his ego/self-respect (fear of realizing how small and defenseless he truly is) or wanting to fight to get out some rage against someone else in the classic scenario of looking for a fight (anger and hate and fear from loss of love, lose of respect, loss of control in his job or love or family problems.
.
I try to be the mirror and be calm and ask, what is it he is afraid of ?
Loss of Respect? I can apologize with sincerity.
Fear of Injury? I can be calm and non-threatening but alert.
Fear of being weak? I can allow him to feel strong and unafraid.

Food for thought,
Doc

"Strength does not come from physical capacity. It comes from an indomitable will"
Gandhi
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Old 07-04-2010, 04:38 AM   #18
CarlRylander
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Re: Aikido - Breaking the barrier

Thanks, randy.

You can defuse situations by not reacting, too. I was once picked up and thrown by someone, and I just carried on walking, without showing any fear or reaction.

The whole bar looked at me in awe! You can get some places in this world where you are treated with utter contempt if you don't fight, but if you do, you are fighting at least three of them, if not a hundred and the police and courts are sometimes on their side. If you don't take a kicking, you are stupid and not of this Earth, and if you do, you are contemptible and laughable.

The answer is just to look capable. And there. And not adding to the situation. And, as you said, try to see the man in all men, and give them respect,despite their lack of manners, which I admit sometimes can't do with some, sometimes.

You can get some situations, with very devious people, where they make your life unbearable, provoke you into starting something, then beat you up, two of them at once, and make you look like the bad guy and the antagonist. And the police laugh at you. That cuts very deep. The answer is to be there and be capable and keep going.

Thanks.

Last edited by CarlRylander : 07-04-2010 at 04:48 AM.
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Old 07-04-2010, 05:06 AM   #19
CarlRylander
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Re: Aikido - Breaking the barrier

Also, I would say, as Aikidoka, you should minimise your contact with people you have little in common with, and maximise it with people you have a lot in common with. You can get people who you have a only a tiny tiny bit in common with, and they con you into thinking they have a lot, and all they want to do is take what you have learned, use it to defeat you, and give you absolutely nothing in return and have no intention of doing so, as long as you live. This may be because they feel very much in a minority themselves of course, as do a lot of people, though there are about 6 billion of them at the moment! I think one of the goals of buddhism, is to overcome delusion and see things as they are.

Be capable and be in this world.

Last edited by CarlRylander : 07-04-2010 at 05:13 AM.
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Old 07-04-2010, 07:05 PM   #20
C. David Henderson
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Re: Aikido - Breaking the barrier

1. So we're like hot-house flowers? Can't deal with those different from ourselves?

2. Those who are different are bad, manipulative, and out to get us?

3. And, subtracting the miniscule proportion of people who practice aikido, the rest do bad things because they haven't noticed they're the overwhelming majority?

Sorry, I don't see things anything like this, and I don't think that's how things "really are."

If you can't relate to folks different than yourself, and you think they're out to get you, it seems to me aikido led you into delusion, not away from it.

Maybe I don't understand what you were trying to say?

David Henderson
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Old 07-04-2010, 10:52 PM   #21
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Aikido - Breaking the barrier

Quote:
Carl Rylander wrote: View Post
Also, I would say, as Aikidoka, you should minimise your contact with people you have little in common with, and maximise it with people you have a lot in common with. You can get people who you have a only a tiny tiny bit in common with, and they con you into thinking they have a lot...
As a blanket statement, i think I have to disagree, though I suppose it depends on what a person is trying to accomplish. You can have contact with people who have a lot in common with you and still get conned by them...in fact I'd say it's generally easier to get conned by those folks. When I'm around folks I don't know very well or otherwise feel I have little in common with, I'm generally on my game a lot more than when I'm around people who seem very familiar (i.e. my critical thinking goes way up). Also, i hold a diversity of experiences as being hugely important and I can't learn as well from that by hanging out with people similar to myself.
I use vision as an analogy: you can sense depth with one eye, but two eyes gives a far greater sense of depth. Add another set and some good communication ability and suddenly you can triangulate something far more profound than those initial 2D and 3D images.

Last edited by mathewjgano : 07-04-2010 at 10:54 PM.

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 07-04-2010, 11:36 PM   #22
Michael Hackett
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Re: Aikido - Breaking the barrier

Associating with only those who are like me would make living unbearable in many respects. Meeting those who are different, who have different opinions, different experiences, different interests bring spice to my life. The exposure to difference broadens my horizons.

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
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Old 07-05-2010, 03:11 AM   #23
CarlRylander
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Re: Aikido - Breaking the barrier

The reason I say this, is cos in John Stevens biography, it said that Uheiba didn't turn up to some demonstrations, if the vibe didn't feel right.

OK, meet and talk to all people. But, in my experience, there are some, whom, charming as they are, aren't good to stay around for a long while. You end up wearing your batteries down. I've been in positions where, out of stubborness, and a desire to prove how tough I am, I've interacted with people, who really, shouldn't have many friends at all, but do, cos they are really experienced con men.

YOU might meet them, and they may say, 'Hey, you've really impressed me with that move! Can you show me it again?' And, they'll want to see it again and again and again, until you trip up.

Just show them the once. Then, say goodbye.
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Old 07-05-2010, 03:37 AM   #24
CarlRylander
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Re: Aikido - Breaking the barrier

Or, ask to see what they can do! An exchange.



You need some psychology to do MA. I think it comes as you go along.
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Old 07-05-2010, 04:08 AM   #25
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Re: Aikido - Breaking the barrier

You really shouldn't stay around people too long, though.

But, you should leave on good terms.
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