Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-24-2010, 11:01 AM   #126
Andrew Macdonald
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 126
Offline
Re: Sensei and size

i think it is easy to use a few examples of large people with medical issues or other good reasons to be large

but this is not something that should also include to other people. who even though years of training don;t have the discipline to walk past a pie shop without going in.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2010, 11:17 AM   #127
thisisnotreal
 
thisisnotreal's Avatar
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 694
Offline
Re: Sensei and size

regarding the issue of:: right foods in right combination.

I heard of this a while ago: Eating the right foods depends mostly on your blood type: http://www.dadamo.com/

I don't know about this.. anyone know or have a strong opinion about this?
fwiw.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2010, 11:44 AM   #128
C. David Henderson
Location: Santa Fe New Mexico
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 606
United_States
Offline
Re: Sensei and size

While its true that people often let obstacles stand in their way, be it age, a medical condition, or weight, its also true that others struggle endlessly to overcome those obstacles and bravely start rolling that stone back up the ramp again every morning.

Problem is, you often can't tell just by looking, and if you assume the problem is lack of discipline, you'll end up treating some people unfairly.

This is, I believe, particularly true if one hasn't struggled with that kind of issue. For example, when you're young and you learn to compensate for a serious injury, you may figure it's just a matter of extrapolation to understand what an older person or someone with a disability has to handle.

I don't think that's accurate. At some point, the differences in degree become differences in kind. Maybe if you're lucky or unlucky enough to face those issues, you'll do just great. But it's my guess that along the way you'll realize you had to do some serious growing before you were up to the task.

While it's also true that a dose of "will power" may be enough for many to handle a problem like, say, weight, for others that simple prescription doesn't begin to cover what they deal with day in and day out, and devalues their struggles.

I'm guilty of judging people superficially at times, but I think its a mistake and I don't like myself much when I catch myself doing it.

Plus, I've got enough stuff of my own to deal with anyway, and copping an attitude to feel one-up on someone who's "weak" probably is just a way to avoid digging out of my own ditch. "What ditch, it's just a furrow -- now that guy, he's got a ditch."

YMMV

David Henderson
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2010, 02:14 PM   #129
DH
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
United_States
Offline
Re: Sensei and size

Quote:
Charles David Henderson wrote: View Post
While its true that people often let obstacles stand in their way, be it age, a medical condition, or weight, its also true that others struggle endlessly to overcome those obstacles and bravely start rolling that stone back up the ramp again every morning.

Problem is, you often can't tell just by looking, and if you assume the problem is lack of discipline, you'll end up treating some people unfairly.

.............snip validation of view.......

I'm guilty of judging people superficially at times, but I think its a mistake and I don't like myself much when I catch myself doing it.

Plus, I've got enough stuff of my own to deal with anyway, and copping an attitude to feel one-up on someone who's "weak" probably is just a way to avoid digging out of my own ditch. "What ditch, it's just a furrow -- now that guy, he's got a ditch."

YMMV
My mileage certainly does vary from yours here.
Where does judgement come into play?
Maybe this prejudice is the underlying defense, knee jerk reacting that people are responding to here.
I don't "judge" people for their weight or inactivity until I hear them bitch and excuse it on something or someone else. Or else wanting or needing some sort of validation for an obviously unhealthy life style. Otherwise, happy fat people, happy thin people, happy sport people, and happy people obssesed with running in the rain and sub-zero weather, are all the same to me; just people doing what people do.

I guess there is some argument to be had about a drain on the healh care system but that's a nonstarter to. We would have to include power lifters and body builders (their hearts are also being taxed by being obese in a different way) and now add everyone who smokes, drinks, one and on.
Dan

Last edited by DH : 06-24-2010 at 02:17 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2010, 02:27 PM   #130
C. David Henderson
Location: Santa Fe New Mexico
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 606
United_States
Offline
Re: Sensei and size

Fair enough Dan.

I suspect the bitching bit tends to set me off too. But the OP wasn't in response to complaining by overweight sensei -- it was a complaint about them. When other people -- I don't include you here -- think someone else's problem is a problem for them, that makes me wonder.

Best,

David Henderson
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2010, 02:43 PM   #131
DH
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
United_States
Offline
Re: Sensei and size

Quote:
But the OP wasn't in response to complaining by overweight sensei -- it was a complaint about them.
Well, fair enough then. I didn't address that. That's another interesting twist.
Okay, if there is some sort of prerequisite for an activity, then judgements do come into play. And that gets difficult as well.

Is a fat Martial artist the best example of budo? I don't think they are.
but to pass them by...you could be missing out on one of the best teachers that you will ever meet.

Tough one eh?
Dan
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2010, 04:49 PM   #132
C. David Henderson
Location: Santa Fe New Mexico
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 606
United_States
Offline
Re: Sensei and size

I think you're right.

David Henderson
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2010, 02:50 PM   #133
Russell Davis
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 55
Offline
Re: Sensei and size

interesting question! Depending on what the aims of the teacher/instructor is/are.
My goal when providing instruction (not Aikido) is to try and get my students to be as good as if not better than me.
When teaching, you cant have it both ways, if you demonstrate a technique then join in with the training, then your not really teaching as far as Im concerned. How are you able to spot and correct mistakes (beginners) how can you show alternative or variable skills (Advanced)
Teachers should have an aditional class for all levels specifically so he or she can join in the training, they could designate a senior student to "Front " the class. as it would be good experience for them too.
Then some just get a little on the lazy side, perhaps from boredom or another reason?
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2010, 09:13 AM   #134
Lyle Laizure
 
Lyle Laizure's Avatar
Dojo: Hinode Dojo LLC
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 563
United_States
Offline
Re: Sensei and size

Quote:
Dennis Hooker wrote: View Post
Something I wrote about 20 years ago I think. It amy give some filks a pause to reflect.

Polishing the Mirror and Grinding the Stone

by Dennis Hooker

It is very difficult to understand the motives of all the people we come into contact with in our training. We may misjudge someone's character or desire. We may be so caught up in our own abilities we look down on those we do not know or understand. Mostly this is done out of inexperience, not true malice.

Let me relate this story to you: Several years ago I had undergone severe surgery related to a chronic illness. I had been put on a medicine called prednisone, which caused me to gain weight, 160 pounds to 210 pounds in two months. My body would not respond to normal commands. My mental state was severe depression. I was ready to give up life. My students, some older than I with greater life experience, understood the danger. They knew my Sensei was teaching a seminar several hundred miles away. They chipped in and got me a plane ticket. One stayed with me on the flight.

They got me to the city and to the dojo. Someone helped me get dressed and onto the mat. I listened and watched as Sensei taught. Several times young Aikidoka came up and asked me to train. I politely refused. Several times I heard. "Why is he on the mat. If he doesn't want to train he should get off the mat. Who does this guy think he is." By the end I could only smile at these remarks, because I knew why I was there and how much I had gained. I know there are others of you that have experienced similar situations. There have been many times over the years that this type of situation has occurred with me.

Compassion, love and understanding will serve us well. Especially if we don't know what is going on around us. We may unknowingly, at any time, be witness to a life and death struggle. A kind word, tolerance, a gentle touch and the strength of our compassion may be the aspects of martial valor that are the key to someone's victory.

Some of us, given our physical condition, must train, metaphorically speaking, in the valley, or on the mountain. We are very seldom allowed the luxury of a plateau. When in the valley we seek to polish the mirror, and when on the mountain we grind the stone. In the valley we may lack the physical attributes necessary for vigorous training as defined by the "normal" martial artist. When we are in the valley, we are at a physical low point. At this time we polish the mirror of our inner self. A teacher being aware of the situation may structure the class so as to give necessary training to all students.

For instance, much detail may given to the attack so it is as physically correct as we are capable of doing. Good body posture and extension of energy and a solid foundation with a firm center are some of the things we are looking for, in our self, and those people assisting us in the learning process. The same thing applies to the technique being studied. A good deal of emphasis is placed on correctness and going only as fast as correctness, and physical ability, will allow. By doing attack and defense in this manner we can learn the proper technique. We can begin to polish the mirror of Aikido within our self. We work on the exactness of the technique until the realness of the technique is reflected in our heart and body, in our movement, and in the ability to harmonize with our partners. By polishing the mirror in such a way we become a reflection of proper technique, both as uke and nage. By being a good reflection of exact application we eliminate much of the danger involved with each technique. That is, we reflect the innate correctness of Aikido. I have often seen Sensei teach technique in such a way, in regular class and at seminars. I have often heard the young lions growl at such unrealistic training. I have seen some of the old warriors light up at being given the opportunity to polish the mirror a little more. This type of training has seen some of us through many a valley. It helps develop and prepare the body, mind and spirit for the ascent back up the mountain.

Back on the mountain we are now ready to begin the process of grinding the stone. Grinding away the rough edges of our ego that sits like a jagged stone at the center of our being, causing pain and discomfort to our life. Grinding the stone means to work hard and fast with our mind fixed on the task at hand. We can grind the stone in relative safety, providing we have spent sufficient time in polishing the mirror. As uke and nage we work together grinding off the rough edges. I give myself to you, and you give your self to me in total trust. I assist you in the grinding and polishing process. In turn, you assist me, and when we are finished we are smoother, happier and better for the effort. We continue to practice polishing the mirror and grinding the stone until the mirror of our spirit is a perfect reflection of true self and the surface of the stone is as smooth as the mirror. We are in harmony with ourselves and our environment.

So don't be upset if the techniques are hard and fast, or slow and exact. We should not be upset if we do not understand why techniques don't look like those we have become comfortable with. We should not be upset with other students whose motives we do not fully understand. But we should ask ourselves where does the true value lie in this training, because there is value in all training.

This is my way of training and it has been a process of necessity with me. It was a long time ago that Sensei taught me to take advantage of the valleys. When we are physically unable to grind the stone we must polish the mirror. We must work on those things spiritual and reflect proper and positive attitude. By doing this we will also be helping the physical side of our being grow. By polishing the mirror and working on those things spiritual we will find the physical growing stronger. As the physical side grows we can grind the stone.

Some people that have a great deal of physical prowess only grind the stone. They forget to polish the mirror, or just don't see the value of it. Others only polish the mirror, and see no value in grinding the stone. I say polish and grind for all your worth because you may lose the physical ability to grind, or the spiritual patience to polish.

I once asked an Aikido Teacher (who I considered to be strictly a stone grinder) why he did not work with people less than physically correct. His answer was that he was not a salvage worker. He took good people and made them better. I don't know when or why he changed but now his life's work is salvaging people who are outcast of society, and some quite dangerous.

If you have people come into your dojo or club who have some type of physical malady, please do not expect them to be less able than the other students. You may find that they do indeed have a good deal of strength and spirit. I have had students missing limbs, and students with various illnesses. They may be able to learn only a few techniques, but they understand the value of what they have learned. They can grasp the concept of polishing the mirror and grinding the stone, and they know when to do each. I have a friend who is an accomplished Karate teacher. He has an artificial ankle and steel rods where bone used to be in his leg. His knees are scarred from surgery. When I see him come to Aikido class and sit in seiza I know he has paid a price much dearer than that paid by most on the mat. Wearing a white belt and humble soul he comes to polish the mirror. He, like many we find on the Aikido mat today, spent his younger life grinding the stone. I would caution the young lions who show little tolerance for those who train differently. You may have a warrior standing before you. Compassion, love and understanding will serve you well.

O Sensei discovered Aikido for all of us, not just those of us who are physically correct.
Well said.

Lyle Laizure
www.hinodedojo.com
Deru kugi wa uta reru
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2010, 09:39 AM   #135
Lyle Laizure
 
Lyle Laizure's Avatar
Dojo: Hinode Dojo LLC
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 563
United_States
Offline
Re: Sensei and size

Ok, so I have been reading some of the posts and I think a lot of folks here have made good points. My two cents are as follows.

I started out being a fat boy and am now a fat man. There are a multitude of issues here or there that have contributed to my weight but in the end I know it is my responsibility. My weight (465 lbs) may limit me here or there but it is a small obstacle in the big scheme of life. Obstacles are made to be overcome. While I may not be the picture of health I make it to the gym regularly, train regularly (with some episodes of sitting on the sideline watching or excusing myself as needed) and I teach 2 Aikido and 2 sword classes a week. During the school year I teach upwards of 10 or 12 classes a week in addition to making it to one or more dojos for a bit of training as the body will permit.

So, being fat (obese really) what kind of an example am I setting for my students? I have a 15 year old young lady that has been training with me for about 3 years now who broke a baseball bat with her shin. (no conditioning) this past Monday. The following Wednesday I broke 2 bats (at the same time). The following Thursday I leg pressed 1000lbs and today I bench pressed 225 lbs.

None of this is to say I am in good shape and it doesn't change my weight. Nor does my weight change how good of an instructor I am or the quality of my technique. That isn't to say that my technique coldn't be or wouldn't be better if I were to lose a couple of hundred pounds. I know it limits my intesity of practice and the duration at which I can practice at a higher intensity. But when I participate in a demonstration and the audience sees a fat man like me fly into orbit and get back up for more I think it goes a long way in encouraging some of those that would normally not give martial arts a chance because they think they could never do something like that.

Ok, I'm done. God Bless

Lyle Laizure
www.hinodedojo.com
Deru kugi wa uta reru
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Has anyone trained with Kimeda Sensei? Cannea General 10 09-13-2009 10:58 PM
Ki-Aikido or Taiji - effectiveness in developing Qi? Haowen Chan Non-Aikido Martial Traditions 277 04-13-2007 08:44 PM
USAF-ER 25th Anniversary Winter Camp giriasis Seminars 12 02-05-2006 05:20 PM
Saito sensei's funeral June 22-3, 2002 pyarrow General 3 06-14-2004 12:39 AM
Randori Seminar with George Ledyard Sensei aikibaka131 Seminars 11 10-24-2003 12:30 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:41 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2018 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2018 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate