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Old 04-29-2002, 10:07 AM   #1
particleman151
Dojo: YMCA Akido/ Appleton, WI
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Steven Sigal, is he good for Aikido?

Last night i watch a Steven Sigal movie called Dead Man Walking or something like that. Anyways it was cool to see alot of moves that i use in Aikido. Question is do you think Steven Sigal is good for Aikido?

Also if any one knows the order of his movies i would like to know that because i was told the early the movie the more Aikido based.

Thanks

A true warrior uses the greatest weapon... The art of Peace.
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Old 04-29-2002, 10:16 AM   #2
cdwright
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Seagal movies

"Above the Law" (1988) XXXXXX
"Marked for Death" (1990) XXXXXX
"Hard to Kill" (1990) XXXXXX
"Out for Justice" (1991) XXXXX
"Under Siege" (1992) XXXXX
"On Deadly Ground" (1994) Not much in here
"Under Siege II: Dark Territory" (1995) XXX
"Executive Decision" (1995) did not see
"The Glimmer Man" (1996) XX
"Fire Down Below" (1997) XXXXXXX
"My Giant" (1998) did not see
"The Patriot" (1998) NONE
"Get Bruce" (1999) did not see
"Exit Wounds" (2001) Some

The ones I have seen with good Aikido are marked with X's, I made comments on others.

Enjoy!
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Old 04-29-2002, 10:40 AM   #3
particleman151
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Thanks for the movie list. Ill have to rent and watch some movies this week. but you did not tell me if you Think Steven Segal is good for Aikido?

A true warrior uses the greatest weapon... The art of Peace.
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Old 04-29-2002, 10:41 AM   #4
Mike Haber
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Re: Seagal movies

Quote:
Originally posted by cdwright
"Above the Law" (1988) XXXXXX
"Marked for Death" (1990) XXXXXX
"Hard to Kill" (1990) XXXXXX
"Out for Justice" (1991) XXXXX
"Under Siege" (1992) XXXXX
"On Deadly Ground" (1994) Not much in here
"Under Siege II: Dark Territory" (1995) XXX
"Executive Decision" (1995) did not see
"The Glimmer Man" (1996) XX
"Fire Down Below" (1997) XXXXXXX
"My Giant" (1998) did not see
"The Patriot" (1998) NONE
"Get Bruce" (1999) did not see
"Exit Wounds" (2001) Some

The ones I have seen with good Aikido are marked with X's, I made comments on others.

Enjoy!
Out for Justice and Above the Law have the most aikido and best fight seens, in my opinion. The bar scene in Out for Justice is incredible.

Sincerely,

Mike Haber
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Old 04-29-2002, 12:23 PM   #5
cdwright
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sorry about that.

Quote:
Originally posted by particleman151
Thanks for the movie list. Ill have to rent and watch some movies this week. but you did not tell me if you Think Steven Segal is good for Aikido?


Seagal helped bring Aikido to the mainstream and that is good. As far as showing a softer merciful Aikido, he has not done that as he is more Aikibudo than Aikido. This is ok with me as I lean more toward the Daito Ryu anyway. I think Seagal is good for Aikido in that he opened a dojo in Japan and showed the Japanese that Westerners can be serious and proficient at Aikido also. Overall, I think Seagal is good for Aikido although I could questions his motives with some of his actions.


My buddy who lives in Japan told me a funny story about Seagal. Before my friend came back to the states for a visit, he heard Seagal was interviewed on TV. A person asked Seagal if he would require a translator for the interview(I guess they had asked him more than once) and he was pissed. In the interview he addressed the person that interviewed him by "omae" which is a derogatory way of saying "you". My friend said he wish he had saw the whole interview.

Last edited by cdwright : 04-29-2002 at 07:03 PM.
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Old 04-30-2002, 08:26 PM   #6
thomasgroendal
 
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I just posted this on the aikido journal site, but when it comes to Seagal my feelings are the following.
"Just like to say that after watching Path beyond thought, and several mediocre and bad, but popular films. I know not enough about SS sensei to properly post anything.
However the fact remains that seagal's violent and masculine films often remain like acatalyst for our own puritanic impulses and self-doubts about the effectiveness of aikido.
That is why he is either praised as being the next O-sensei/great white hope, that chewed all the nails in Osaka, or some charletain who just wanted to say hi-mom on tv and was lucky enough to make it big.
I think he deserves a more balanced approach when spoken of as a very accomplished teacher of aikido, and be he some kind of black sheep or not, ONE OF THE MAJOR REASONS that aikido is what it is today.
How many people would know what aikido was if they hadn't seen a seagal film. How many times have you felt the need to prove aikido wasn't girly, and said that it's what seagal does (with the assistance of a few hundred sheets of strategically placed glass!)
Sure aikido is usually lots quieter, nicer, and less glorific than your average above the law (or illegal) bar fight scene, but why do we have to freak about it. (i.e. the hands down most popular topic on bulletin boards, and the most likely to bring out raging speculation and personal comments.)
Watch the video, if it is available, if not imagine your were talking about some other guy/gal and see if your comment isn't an inflammatory response to our own insecurities.
My piece of cheese
Tom Groendal
(p.s. I am also a big gumpy white guy teaching in Japan. Haven't caused any onlooker car accidents yet.)"
This was after hearing several fairly inflammatory comments about Seagal this and Seagal that.
I think he is an excellent litmus test. You can usually tell the confidence level, and the goal of somebodies aikido by looking at how violently they respond to a seagal fight scene. In anycase, I recommend the Path Beyond Thought video. It gives some perspective to his aikido and aikido around the world, even if it does often come off as an ego massage.
So, how do you all feel when the big guy is thrown out there?

Life is choice.
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Old 04-30-2002, 08:54 PM   #7
PeterR
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by thomasgroendal
that chewed all the nails in Osaka
I know one of the nails - interesting stories one hears.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 04-30-2002, 10:21 PM   #8
thomasgroendal
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by PeterR

I know one of the nails - interesting stories one hears.
Sounds good to me, so what did the nail think? They have a pretty good perspective, I would imagine.

Life is choice.
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Old 04-30-2002, 10:24 PM   #9
PeterR
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by thomasgroendal


Sounds good to me, so what did the nail think? They have a pretty good perspective, I would imagine.
Let's just say ego far outstripping reality has always been a problem.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 05-01-2002, 07:04 PM   #10
warriorwoman
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Steven Seagal, is he good for Aikido?

Is he good for Aikido? I think that depends on whether you think quantity and not quality of the students training is more important.

I think he's bad for Buddhism, however. There is a story about him donating a large amount of money to a Tibetan Buddhist Monastery in order to be recognized as a tulku. All reports that I've heard about him have indicated that he is quite arrogant, as the above posting suggested. A few years back, his arrogance was rewarded with a down-home ass-whooping when he "dissed" one of his stuntmen. (By the way, I don't think the stuntman practiced Aikido.) I think we should all be more careful about picking our heroes and base that designation on how a person lives - not how they appear on the silverscreen.
janet dtantirojanarat
www.warriorwoman

janet dtantirojanarat
www.warriorwoman.org
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Old 05-01-2002, 10:17 PM   #11
particleman151
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Thats very interesting about the whole ass wooping, you would think a sixth degree black belt would be able to hold his own...

I also heard that he is not a nice guy but then again i have not had the plessure to meet him yet

Best

A true warrior uses the greatest weapon... The art of Peace.
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Old 05-02-2002, 12:20 AM   #12
thomasgroendal
 
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Yet again an abundance of controversy as to whether Steven Seagal sensei is either a choked out, fecal matter disposing charlatan, or whether he is the real dan, kicking butt like all the other "6th dans" should be able to.
What occurs to me here is that how many 6th dans have world champion judoka choke them out. I wouldn't be surprised if it happened quite a bit. Even osensei was HUMAN. He must have accepted some challenges but do we know of any that haven't been inflated into superhuman conflicts of the martial arts gods? I know of almost no top martial artists that go through these kinds of challenges in the first world. For those that do believe Osensei, was taking on all comers once a week, I recommend listening to some of the historical work of Stanley Pranin Sensei…
The point of my comment here is that if Seagal Sensei is a big muscled ego ogre then we are giving him WAY too much air time here. If he is a genuine, if at times humanly limited teacher of the art of peace, and prolific at that, then we are being way too disrespectful. I wouldn't want to be talked about like this by people that don't know me. But then again I don't make movies.
What is interesting to me about this thread is what it might reveal to us about the commentators. Why is he so darn interesting? We all know rumors about him. He undeniably changes (for better or worse) the profile of our art, and is a visible challenge to the place most of us put ourselves.
If you think Seagal Sensei sucks, and have much to say, especially for those without having met the man. What are you trying to say about you? About your vision of Aikido?
For those that come in on the other side, (where there any?) What does the image of Seagal Sensei represent that is so attractive?
I had a pony tail for eight years. I always said it wasn't Seagal, but who can say? I don't like the violence as represented in his movies as an option to solve my problems, but I surely feel the thrill, the verifiication of my art's effectiveness when I watch one of those quick and sharp kotegaeshi. As for the rest? Who knows… What does he say to your ego?

Life is choice.
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Old 05-02-2002, 07:01 AM   #13
Arianah
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Sorry to be nitpicky, but I'm pretty sure he's 7th dan. As for everything else, I neither revere nor despise him. I don't really care too much.

Sarah

Last edited by Arianah : 05-02-2002 at 07:03 AM.

Out of clutter, find simplicity.
From discord, find harmony.
In the middle of difficulty, lies opportunity.
-Albert Einstein
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Old 05-02-2002, 07:13 AM   #14
shihonage
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I guess every Aikido forum is bound to have one Seagal thread on weekly basis.
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Old 05-02-2002, 02:56 PM   #15
Lyle Bogin
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I don't think this guy had much influence on anything of any real scale. Most folks who I've spoken to have no idea what Seagal is doing in his films.
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