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Old 06-08-2010, 04:14 PM   #26
Buck
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Re: Aikido Uniform: Part tradition; part discipline -

It sounds like that what appeals to the masses, thus attracting a large number of students being the yard stick for success, is it. I am sure having women of 20-35 years of age train in string bikini's would attract allot of men to a dojo. Possibly having the men train in a Tux - "as every girl goes crazy for a sharp dressed man"- would attract women. Or have a nudist dojo, yea, train in the buff. That would track allot of nudists to the dojo (doesn't one already exit?). All of which would fill the dojo floor space. Why stick with a traditional uniform?

Tradition is so stuff, why not dress like a Ninja, Geisha, or Lady Gaga. Hey or even the rock band KISS! Heck, professional basketball teams have to traditionally wear uniforms and it doesn't do them any good.

Why stick with the name Aikido that is too traditional too. Why not call it Feininthrough, Ninjitsu, or what it really is Mixed Martial Arts. And why do all those "traditional" exercises with that stick and wooden sword, or that rowing exercise or that stepping exercise. Why not change those traditional stick and foot work exercises to current dance moves that will get more students. And start playing Pink or hip hop in the dojo. That too gets more students.



I feel if a pro baseball player came on the field wearing a Speedo instead of the uniform it would get a lot of attention. People would fill the stands just to see that. But, what about the effect on other players, he is making a statement he isn't a team player and isn't taking the game seriously. He would be turning the game in to a circus, and that would affect the tradition of the game, and it would upset many serious fans and alike, who love and appreciate the tradition of the game. Tradition is the soul of baseball. Why wouldn't that be the same for Aikido?
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Old 06-08-2010, 04:59 PM   #27
dps
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Re: Aikido Uniform: Part tradition; part discipline -

Quote:
Philip Burgess wrote: View Post

I feel if a pro baseball player came on the field wearing a Speedo instead of the uniform it would get a lot of attention. People would fill the stands just to see that. But, what about the effect on other players, he is making a statement he isn't a team player and isn't taking the game seriously. He would be turning the game in to a circus, and that would affect the tradition of the game, and it would upset many serious fans and alike, who love and appreciate the tradition of the game. Tradition is the soul of baseball. Why wouldn't that be the same for Aikido?
I don't know about Speedos but can you spell S T E R O I D S.

David
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Old 06-09-2010, 11:19 AM   #28
Buck
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Re: Aikido Uniform: Part tradition; part discipline -

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
I don't know about Speedos but can you spell S T E R O I D S.

David
Good one, I didn't think of that. You can't spell baseball now without steroids. Or for that matter, lots of sports.
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Old 06-09-2010, 11:36 AM   #29
Keith Larman
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Re: Aikido Uniform: Part tradition; part discipline -

You know, I'm all for traditions. I'm all for proper etiquette. But I also worry that people far too often mistake the traditions for the art itself. So much focus on going through the motions with little understanding of why you're doing it in the first place.

If someone is giving a good class with happy students who are learning... Great. As was already pointed out, there isn't a lot of other info here to indicate whether there is additional training, more traditional coverage, etc. Just kids class with wild uniforms.

Heck, one day I had the kids trying to keep balloons between each other. One finger only with each kid. They had a blast. And to some watching it probably looked odd. And I'm sure some would argue that if O Sensei never used balloons, we certainly shouldn't. But the idea was to teach them to connect with the lightest touch possible. To learn to feel connection, balance and flow with it. And even if nothing else was learned, they had a good time. That's okay in the larger scheme of things as long as overall we're progressing.

So I shrug and move on. Whatever floats your boat.

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Old 06-09-2010, 01:41 PM   #30
dps
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Re: Aikido Uniform: Part tradition; part discipline -

Looking at the title of this thread (the discipline part) if the gi had longer sleeves it could be used as a straight jacket.

David
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Old 06-09-2010, 08:11 PM   #31
Buck
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Re: Aikido Uniform: Part tradition; part discipline -

Something I didn't bring up that I was aware of the Aikido of Kenji Tomiki sensei who believed that Aikido should be done in street clothes and that is more realistic to apply Aikido since no one runs around in a dogi in daily in the streets. That included wearing shoes on the mat. This is based on my memory of an article I read some years ago in an old magazine.

The point isn't about the accuracy of the story. Rather the types of, imo, rational and reasonable changes to tradition. Tomiki Sensei didn't come dressed in leotards and spandex, or a football jersey. He made changes that still encompassed the tradition of disciple. I think is important.

I have an on going wager with a friend that MMA's next step will be what we see in Pro Wrestling with all the cartoon trash talk and outrageous costumes. We already have many Karate dojos turning into karate dance / entertainment studios.

There will be those who want attention and will push the envelope, but there are also those who appreciated and keep tradition. I think of baseball as an example. Baseball has changed over the years and it's tradition has changed, despite that there is a core tradition or traditional believe that holds it all together. Aikido is the same.
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Old 06-10-2010, 09:31 AM   #32
Buck
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Re: Aikido Uniform: Part tradition; part discipline -

Quote:
Rather the types of, imo, rational and reasonable changes to tradition. ...Tomiki Sensei He made changes that still encompassed the tradition of disciple.

... those who appreciated and keep tradition. I think of baseball as an example. Baseball has changed over the years and it's tradition has changed, despite that there is a core tradition or traditional believe that holds it all together. Aikido is the same.
Rational and reasonable changes to tradition are important to Aikido. Aikido tradition isn't always going to remain the same. That is unrealistic to think so considering the dynamic of Aikido, where it came from, where it has spread, and where it is going. Yes, tradition of yesterday may not be the tradition of today. The kicker is how that tradition is changed existing today. I feel a dogi is very important to learning Aikido techniques as a training tool, as a uniform that brings a group recognition, identification, and coherence- like a team uniform does. Then again, wearing street clothes makes sense, as later generations trained in their "street" clothes. Wearing street clothes to train in makes sense and really isn't outside of tradition at all, but rather alines with tradition.

When an uniform is worn in Aikido class that isn't of Aikido, I think sends the wrong message. If I walked on to a baseball field and saw the players wearing ballet outfits, tuxs, a costume, I would know what was going on and it would lose credibility with me. This is because my archetype of baseball is cemented in baseball tradition that has been held for so long. Where icons and stuff have been born and fostered to represent baseball. Wearing a Tu-tu or baseball uniform doesn't reflect skill but it does effect credibility in many areas, and misrepresents baseball. This is the same for Aikido.

As Mark Twain said, "The clothes make the man."

Last edited by Buck : 06-10-2010 at 09:33 AM.
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Old 06-10-2010, 01:19 PM   #33
lbb
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Re: Aikido Uniform: Part tradition; part discipline -

You're talking to yourself again, Buck.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGGTfuM1RGM
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Old 06-10-2010, 09:02 PM   #34
Buck
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Re: Aikido Uniform: Part tradition; part discipline -

Yep, at least I don't argue with myself. I felt I needed to expand further on those ideas. Clarify them, so the reader could better understand my point of view. Give a better perspective of what I was saying offers the reader more stuff to weight against other perspectives. Isn't that what we are here offer thoughts to others in hopes of providing a benefit to their Aikido questions, thoughts, and stuff?
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Old 06-10-2010, 11:18 PM   #35
Linda Eskin
 
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Re: Aikido Uniform: Part tradition; part discipline -

I did judo for a summer in 3rd grade. I asked my mom recently about what gave her the idea to enroll me in judo at the Y, and she said it way my idea. She didn't know where I'd heard about it, but I insisted.

Regardless, I remember it as a demanding class where we were treated with respect, and the sensei had high expectations of us, which I appreciated. I was a pretty serious kid, and it was a nice change to be in a dignified environment. I would not have had any interest in ninja costumes or theatrics.

Linda Eskin - Facebook | My AikiBlog

"Heaven is right where you are standing, and that is the place to train." - Morihei Ueshiba
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Old 06-11-2010, 12:25 PM   #36
Adam Huss
 
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Re: Aikido Uniform: Part tradition; part discipline -

I started karate when I was around 7 or so. They didn't have kids classes, but sometimes beginners were taken into a separate room to work on basics. We were treated no differently than the adults, we had to sit in proper seiza on a wooden floor while not currently involved in some aspect of training (ie waiting our turn to participate in something, or listening to instruction). I didn't know to compare it to anything else, but I enjoyed it, and to this day I think that kind of tradition and discipline helped me become a successful adult. Anyway, I think tradition such as uniforms are a manifestation of that kind of personal growth.

Ichi Go, Ichi Ei!
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Old 06-11-2010, 09:44 PM   #37
OwlMatt
 
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Re: Aikido Uniform: Part tradition; part discipline -

I am a pretty firm believer in the idea that the uniform ought not be an expression of individualism. A uniform that glorifies the self and differentiates oneself from others is an obstacle to the ultimate goal of losing oneself in the art. The uniform ought to be a declaration that the art is more important than the artist.
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