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Old 07-04-2010, 05:32 PM   #76
brunotex
 
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Re: The most vital question. Who's going to win the world cup?

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
After that handball vs. Ghana, I hope Uruguay gets the crap kicked out of them by the Netherlands.
Really? I think he did the right thing to do in that very moment. He avoided the goal, and sent the responsibility to Ghana.

Thinking as an Uruguaian, he deserves a statue in front at the Centenario Stadium..

I don´t think it was cheating (he was penalized for putting the hand on the ball..), but maybe I am not seeing things from Ghana´s perspective.....
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Old 07-04-2010, 06:52 PM   #77
Keith Larman
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Re: The most vital question. Who's going to win the world cup?

Well, it is cheating to the extent that any breaking of rules is cheating. So any intentional infraction is by that definition cheating.

However, in this case it was called, he was red carded and Ghana got the penalty kick. Which is precisely what the rules indicated should happen under the circumstances.

Personally I've always thought there should be a special case in the rules for things like intentional hand balls where the person doing it is literally standing on or within a few feet of the goal line. If the referee thinks that the handball *clearly* prevented a legal goal, well, I'd red card them *and* award the goal. Kind of like the "goaltending" rule in basketball.

Of course that gives the refs extra power and we all know how honest and fair the officiating has been historically at the world cup, but there you go.

Or to expand on other discussions, maybe video replays should be allowed for cases such as the disallowed England goal (does it cross the goal line?) or for review by officials if they believe a defender intentionally hit the ball with their hands to prevent a clear goal.

As it stands the defender in the Ghana game took the route that maximized his odds. The penalty for preventing a tournament ending goal is a red card and *maybe* a goal on a penalty kick. So he goes from "we're out of this tournament" to "maybe we're out but if they miss the penalty kick and we ultimately win I miss the next game but we continue."). It reminds me of pass interference in American Football. If the wide receiver has a clear shot at the end zone if they catch it, well, the pass interference penalty is better than a touch down.

I think it is a shame that Ghana lost. But... They followed the rules to the letter. The officiating was correct *and* the penalty *was* called. So I agree that Ghana *should* be the ones continuing. But... The only way that would happen is if there is a change of the rules.

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Old 07-04-2010, 09:25 PM   #78
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Re: The most vital question. Who's going to win the world cup?

I agree Keith. And this competition displayed very clearly that team have to score, otherwise they will nod advance to the next round. I.e.: Ghana was not able to score even from penalty, so it is not surprise that they lost.
Look at Brazil and Argentina - even if they play very well, they couldn't score to win. I hope will be not more defensive soccer in the future.

Nagababa

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Old 07-05-2010, 06:33 AM   #79
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Re: The most vital question. Who's going to win the world cup?

Quote:
Bruno Teixeira wrote: View Post
Really? I think he did the right thing to do in that very moment. He avoided the goal, and sent the responsibility to Ghana.

Thinking as an Uruguaian, he deserves a statue in front at the Centenario Stadium..
Thinking as a disinterested outsider, I don't think he has anything to be proud of. It was a legal win, but it was a cheap shoddy win. Nothing to be proud of at all.
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Old 07-05-2010, 06:45 AM   #80
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Re: The most vital question. Who's going to win the world cup?

Keith,

You got my point. In today´s rules, it was not cheating. I´ve seen this happen before (one intentionally puts the hand on the ball to avoid a goal), but in the middle of the game, so loosing a player was an actual punishment for the team.

Officials can not award a goal if the whole ball does not cross the goal line. It will transform football into an "American" game with an Encyclopedia of rules, exceptions, and exceptions of exceptions, like baseball or "American Football" (I like those sports the way they are, but undesrtand these thousands of "if....").
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Old 07-05-2010, 07:12 AM   #81
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Re: The most vital question. Who's going to win the world cup?

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Thinking as a disinterested outsider, I don't think he has anything to be proud of. It was a legal win, but it was a cheap shoddy win. Nothing to be proud of at all.
I don't understand? It's the duty of the defender to use his hands if sure that goalkeeper can't get the ball and he himself can't get it in another way!
What should he have done otherwise???
He knows that he will be punished for this and he knows that the other team will get a penalty kick.
But there is no other choice?

Or do you really think he should have let the ball pass???
Every defender here on every football (or soccer) ground would do the same thing. That's the way of the game ...

Last edited by Carsten Möllering : 07-05-2010 at 07:14 AM.
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Old 07-05-2010, 09:12 AM   #82
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Re: The most vital question. Who's going to win the world cup?

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Thinking as a disinterested outsider, I don't think he has anything to be proud of. It was a legal win, but it was a cheap shoddy win. Nothing to be proud of at all.
I have to disagree with you. The way I see that move, he sacrificed himself for the team in a desperate move. And his team won!!! He is proud of himself, and he should be!!
Carsten said it well. Any other player in the world, in the World Cup or in a weekend play with beers and churrasco, would do the same...

If Brazil (or Palmeiras, the team I support in Brazil) lose a game that way, I would think the very same way...
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Old 07-06-2010, 01:50 PM   #83
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Re: The most vital question. Who's going to win the world cup?

Quote:
Bruno Teixeira wrote: View Post
I have to disagree with you. The way I see that move, he sacrificed himself for the team in a desperate move. And his team won!!! He is proud of himself, and he should be!!
Carsten said it well. Any other player in the world, in the World Cup or in a weekend play with beers and churrasco, would do the same...

If Brazil (or Palmeiras, the team I support in Brazil) lose a game that way, I would think the very same way...
I disagree.

He cheated. He intentionally broke the rules because his team couldn't match Ghana in a fair contest of skill.

That's why he was sent off. The punishment meted out by the referee is irrelevant to the decision made by the player.

If one has to resort to that kind of behaviour, what's the point?

But the Netherlands have just scored a cracking goal, so balance is temporarily restored!
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Old 07-06-2010, 02:15 PM   #84
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Talking Re: The most vital question. Who's going to win the world cup?

Quote:
Oisin Bourke wrote: View Post
I disagree.

He cheated. He intentionally broke the rules because his team couldn't match Ghana in a fair contest of skill.

That's why he was sent off. The punishment meted out by the referee is irrelevant to the decision made by the player.

If one has to resort to that kind of behaviour, what's the point?

But the Netherlands have just scored a cracking goal, so balance is temporarily restored!
Well, We have to agree to disagree. I understand your point, and Mary´s, but I see Suarez move from a different point of view. It happens...

For me, that goal from Luis Fabiano (Brasil) against Ivory Coast is cheating.

Netherlands will win this game because they are better than Uruguai in this WC, but they must remember that Uruguai may have several goalkeepers....
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Old 07-06-2010, 02:24 PM   #85
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Re: The most vital question. Who's going to win the world cup?

Quote:
Bruno Teixeira wrote: View Post
Well, We have to agree to disagree. I understand your point, and Mary´s, but I see Suarez move from a different point of view. It happens...

For me, that goal from Luis Fabiano (Brasil) against Ivory Coast is cheating.
Sure, it's a sport. It's not a life and death matter, unlike, say Aikido

I kind of enjoyed Fabiano's goal. It may have been cheating, but it was creative cheating.
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Old 07-06-2010, 02:30 PM   #86
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Re: The most vital question. Who's going to win the world cup?

For the moment Holland is rather disappointing. They don't control the play, and have to wake up and start to play seriously. It is not the way to get into the final...

Nagababa

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Old 07-07-2010, 03:33 PM   #87
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Re: The most vital question. Who's going to win the world cup?

Spain and Netherlands final!

A new World Champion.

I really enjoyed both semi finals. The two best teams got through IMO
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Old 07-11-2010, 02:21 PM   #88
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Re: The most vital question. Who's going to win the world cup?

The Netherlands should have a goal awarded against them as a penalty for pure malevolence.
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Old 07-11-2010, 04:17 PM   #89
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Re: The most vital question. Who's going to win the world cup?

And something rarely seen on this forum... A single word answer to a question.

Spain.

Last edited by Keith Larman : 07-11-2010 at 04:21 PM.

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Old 07-12-2010, 01:31 AM   #90
Darryl Cowens
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Re: The most vital question. Who's going to win the world cup?

And New Zealand are the only team to finish the tournament without a loss....
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Old 07-12-2010, 02:43 AM   #91
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Re: The most vital question. Who's going to win the world cup?

S★p★a★i★n
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Old 07-12-2010, 07:24 AM   #92
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Re: The most vital question. Who's going to win the world cup?

Netherlands were an absolute disgrace.

But to finish on a positive note:

Congrats to Spain! Great result and great character!
(And congrats to NZ for their unbeaten record with part timers on the team! What a result!)
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Old 07-12-2010, 08:28 AM   #93
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Re: The most vital question. Who's going to win the world cup?

I was so disappointed by final game. No technical virtuosity, no good tactic, Am I dreaming or it was top of the top of football? And the referee lost a control of the match…what a shame…

Nagababa

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Old 07-12-2010, 08:38 AM   #94
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Re: The most vital question. Who's going to win the world cup?

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote: View Post
No technical virtuosity, no good tactic, Am I dreaming or it was top of the top of football?
Pardon me?
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Old 07-12-2010, 11:55 AM   #95
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Re: The most vital question. Who's going to win the world cup?

Spain deserved the title. They have been keeping the top level since
2002.

Netherlands were more violent than usual, but let´s remember that they were the whole WC the team with more fouls...
That karate kick by de Jong was nice!!!

Now 2014, in Brasil. It will be fun.....
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Old 07-12-2010, 04:37 PM   #96
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Re: The most vital question. Who's going to win the world cup?

Quote:
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That karate kick by de Jong was nice!!!
Looked more of a Shaoling thing to me !!
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