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Old 03-27-2010, 08:44 AM   #51
Marc Abrams
Dojo: Aikido Arts of Shin Budo Kai/ Bedford Hills, New York
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Re: What is AIKI ? - fantastic video

Quote:
Stan Baker wrote: View Post
Hi Marc
The reason why Ushiro sensei makes it looks so easy, is because his opponents are not that good. For all the best people that I have seen they all make it look just like him. Nothing magical.

stan
Stan:

Reality speaks louder than words. When you come to the seminar, I will allow you to pick from some of those people who are on those video clips who you deem to be "not that good." I will then allow the two of you to engage in kumite. When you are aroused from a very deep sleep, I will then ask you to publish your comments about the person of your choosing.

I severely doubt that you are foolish enough to place yourself in that type of situation. I thought that my case of athletes foot-in-the-mouth disease was a bad, chronic case. You have outdone me! I take my hat off to you. I cannot understand why you would make such a foolish comment based upon zero knowledge. You should seriously consider the possibility of no longer making uninformed comments in this type of arena; in other words, you should quit while you are behind.

Marc Abrams
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Old 03-27-2010, 09:03 AM   #52
Mark Raugas
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Re: What is AIKI ? - fantastic video

Stan writes:

Quote:
Big deal it just means that your rooting is not that good. If your rooting is good they can still throw you but it will not be so easy. I practice with the top guys in the world.
So, who are the top guys in the world? And are you working with them in a closed ecosystem or are you willing to go "push hands outside", i.e. cross hands with someone like Ushiro or one of the people Marc Abrams mentioned? I'm sure the people in all of those clips feel like they are training honestly. So, how do you judge yourself in a more reliable manner? Is it just because someone who is good says you are good? How different is that from the uke in any video you might not like (e.g., Yanagiryuken anyone)? Are there underlying assumptions to your practice as well?

Just throwing some questions out. And, a little tired of hearing about the "best in the world" without specific details. I'm willing to give lots of benefit of the doubt if there are videos you can point to as examples. Maybe a way to ask all those questions at once, in a simpler fashion, is to ask:

What can you specifically do and how is that aiki?

Last edited by Mark Raugas : 03-27-2010 at 09:11 AM. Reason: Just throwing some questions out.
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Old 03-27-2010, 01:18 PM   #53
Marc Abrams
Dojo: Aikido Arts of Shin Budo Kai/ Bedford Hills, New York
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Re: What is AIKI ? - fantastic video

Quote:
Chris Hein wrote: View Post
I would love to see footage of this. Not because I believe it didnt' happen, but because I'd bet that it happened in a way that is unlike a sport match, but instead was a demonstration, which has a different context.

Marc, I don't think you are able to understand my point. People are constantly subjecting themselves to social confines. Lack of understanding this is what allows others to take advantage of your social confines. As a licensed psychologist, you should understand this better then most. To say Ushiro Sensei didn't expect to play by a set of rules is kind of silly. He didn't expect Kevin to pull out a gun and shoot him, because that would be crazy for him to do. Crazy because it doesn't fit into the normal dictates of this type of situations. That is a gross example of the kind of rule I'm talking about.

This is a powerful ability, I don't want you to think I'm saying otherwise. Again as a licensed psychologist you should understand how the power of the mind is amazing.
Chris:

They keep a very tight leash on video. Having seen the clips in question, it was definitely not a demonstration!

The issue of overt and covert rules, confines.... is entirely different from the issue of hypnosis. There are always certain assumptions that people make regarding any situation (regardless of whether or not they want to acknowledge it or not). A famous psychologist referred to humans as "telic beings" in that our reasoning capacities are always utilized to create understandings of our environment. Ushiro Sensei does utilize this understanding by utilizing his Ki in a manner that you perceive to be very different than what is occurring. We can make this a separate thread, since this is major thread drift. Basically, he talks about utilizing energy so that the person perceives your hand as if it is a live blade. Unfortunately, a lot of this stuff does not "translate" easily into words and has to be experienced first hand in order to prove and disprove certain hypotheses we have going into this situation. It is not a hypnotic process, but our minds our involved of all aspects of our existence, regardless of it being a conscious or preconscious experience.

Marc Abrams
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Old 03-27-2010, 03:17 PM   #54
Michael Varin
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Re: What is AIKI ? - fantastic video

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote:
Me I think he brainwashed them and created a kind of sect. There is another 'master' in France - G.Blaize who is doing even more horrible things. But he is a direct student of Hikitsushi sensei.
Quote:
Fred Little wrote:
Having taken a look at a few clips of Gerard Blaize on YouTube, I would have to say that there is very little relationship between what he is doing and what the gentleman in the first clip is doing, and it is a mystery to me what relevance M. Blaize has to this discussion….
Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote:
We could see him throwing his uke from a distance about 10 feet, uke not only fall dawn, but stay on the ground squirming his body in the sort of convulsions and couldn't get up.
About six years ago I was in France and went to a small seminar in the city of Douarnenez. The instructor's first name was Bruno. I believe he either is or was affiliated with Gerard Blaize. Sorry for the lack of specifics - there was a language barrier for me.

In the class I could throw his students with no contact. If I just turned towards them sharply they would fall. Also, I found that I could hold them on the ground indefinitely just by looking at them. I asked one of the men I was training with to get up and he said that he couldn't because my ki was too strong and he looked like he was in discomfort as he tried to move.

I approached the training as I always do, and did nothing out of the ordinary.

The funny thing was that none of the students or the instructor could do these things to me.

The second half of the seminar was much better. One of the guys I was traveling with and I ditched and got some French pastries. . . They were delicious.

-Michael
"Through aiki we can feel the mind of the enemy who comes to attack and are thus able to respond immediately." - M. Mochizuki
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Old 03-27-2010, 03:46 PM   #55
JO
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Re: What is AIKI ? - fantastic video

Quote:
Michael Varin wrote: View Post
About six years ago I was in France and went to a small seminar in the city of Douarnenez. The instructor's first name was Bruno. I believe he either is or was affiliated with Gerard Blaize. Sorry for the lack of specifics - there was a language barrier for me.

In the class I could throw his students with no contact. If I just turned towards them sharply they would fall. Also, I found that I could hold them on the ground indefinitely just by looking at them. I asked one of the men I was training with to get up and he said that he couldn't because my ki was too strong and he looked like he was in discomfort as he tried to move.

I approached the training as I always do, and did nothing out of the ordinary.

The funny thing was that none of the students or the instructor could do these things to me.

The second half of the seminar was much better. One of the guys I was traveling with and I ditched and got some French pastries. . . They were delicious.
I wish I could have been there to see it. Would have been glad to interpret for you.

Talk about the opposite of a martial art. You train hard at making it possible for strangers to pin you with a stare and gain no skills that work on anybody other than your own dojo mates.

Jonathan Olson
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Old 03-27-2010, 05:12 PM   #56
stan baker
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Re: What is AIKI ? - fantastic video

Hi Marc
I am not really interested in kumite, I am more interested in Aiki and internal power that I can test with out Kumite. I will leave the fighting for Dan.

stan
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Old 03-27-2010, 05:44 PM   #57
aikilouis
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Re: What is AIKI ? - fantastic video

Quote:
Michael Varin wrote: View Post
About six years ago I was in France and went to a small seminar in the city of Douarnenez. The instructor's first name was Bruno. I believe he either is or was affiliated with Gerard Blaize. Sorry for the lack of specifics - there was a language barrier for me.

In the class I could throw his students with no contact. If I just turned towards them sharply they would fall. Also, I found that I could hold them on the ground indefinitely just by looking at them. I asked one of the men I was training with to get up and he said that he couldn't because my ki was too strong and he looked like he was in discomfort as he tried to move.

I approached the training as I always do, and did nothing out of the ordinary.

The funny thing was that none of the students or the instructor could do these things to me.

The second half of the seminar was much better. One of the guys I was traveling with and I ditched and got some French pastries. . . They were delicious.
I happened to meet the people of Douarnenez in a seminar around 2001, during which they decided to separate from G. Blaize's organisation. I was a beginner at the time, but from what my instructor told me, that dojo was choosing an orientation towards a practise of communication (perhaps in a spirit closer to Masamichi Noro and his Aiki no Michi), while G. Blaize insisted on maintaining a martial component to their aikido if they wanted to keep on receiving his instruction.

Some details on the following page (especially in the paragraph "Histoire courte") : http://p.bazin.free.fr/cac.html

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Old 03-28-2010, 12:16 PM   #58
DH
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Re: What is AIKI ? - fantastic video

I find these discussion of "appropriate levels of resistance" and who "owns a floor" and what is "acceptable levels of resistance" or not or what can be judged or discerned or not from various levels of pressure to be antithetical to a discussion of aiki. In the end you can either use Aiki full-on in "force-on-force" or you can't. If anyone (I really don't care who they are) hasn't been tested "all out" by someone who can actually fight and then actually DID fight them with weapons and without then its all rather academic isn't it?

All it says is that these teachers may or may not have 'some" skills in aiki or IP, and they may or may not be able to use what they have a "little bit" in a controlled setting; kata, push hands, sparring, or all out in a real fight. In other words, their understanding and ability to teach IP/ aiki may be true and they might be able to teach it, but whether what they can show you will eventually work in a real fight is all just theory and hope isn't it?

As far as danger levels
Men who really CAN deliver, have done so repeatedly in various venues without having to wreck people in doing so. Nor are they so emotional unstable that they "feel challenged" and then need to wreck people. I have yet to see MMA guys who actually can and do fight exhibit a routine lack of control.
Saying "You shouldn't try to fight a TMA "great" because of how dangerous it might be, he might hurt you." is the worst type of B.S. response imaginable. What does it say?
That a given teacher cannot or will not exhibit control; either due to a personality disorder or lack of skill in that control? What does that say about their supposed level of skill?

Frankly, this whole discussion stinks of the same "I can't use my Martial Arts techniques because they are deadly"... B.S. I have heard most of my adult life.
And "that" is why truly capable MMA people think Aiki, IP and Ki is total B.S., and I do not blame them.
Dan

Last edited by DH : 03-28-2010 at 12:27 PM.
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Old 03-28-2010, 02:40 PM   #59
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: What is AIKI ? - fantastic video

I agree Dan and I hope that one day I'll be able to link up with you and train and play in this manner, as I have not had the opportunity to do so with any one that has aiki skills and has been willing to put it on the line like this.

Not sure what your schedule might be this summer, but if you find yourself in the Jacksonville Florida area and have time, let me know...I will be down there getting ready to deploy between 1 May - 1 August.

I have a great set up down there, good tatami, weapons, blauer suits the works, and I have alot of young team guys that could benefit from such training.

Also will have alot of time to kill on the weekends as I will have not much else to do but train.

That goes for anyone that is in the area and wants to come over and train some! PM me and come on over!

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Old 03-28-2010, 03:49 PM   #60
Stormcrow34
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Re: What is AIKI ? - fantastic video

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Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
That goes for anyone that is in the area and wants to come over and train some! PM me and come on over!
Hi Kevin. I live about an hour south of Jacksonville, but have family much closer...and I'm still trying to wrap my mind around what "IT" is all about.
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Old 03-28-2010, 06:32 PM   #61
Abasan
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Re: What is AIKI ? - fantastic video

Just to add fuel to the fire, we also know that Hiroshi Ikeda takes instruction from Kenji Ushiro too sometimes. An widely respected Aikido teacher learning from a karate teacher about Aiki or Ki really in this instance to me says something. Either Ushiro sensei has something of value to teach, or Ikeda sensei is a fool. I would like to see anyone here calling Ikeda sensei a fool to his face and video that event.

Draw strength from stillness. Learn to act without acting. And never underestimate a samurai cat.
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Old 03-28-2010, 06:34 PM   #62
ChrisHein
 
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Re: What is AIKI ? - fantastic video

Dan I believe several people from Bullshido.net, who are Mixed martial artists living in your neck of the woods showed an interest in meeting up with you, in a civil manner, to test out your Aiki in a martial context. But you turned them down. I have heard much from you of your sparring sessions, but not from the other parties involved.

I would love to hear from an unbiased party about your sparring sessions. Who could I get in contact with?

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Old 03-28-2010, 07:02 PM   #63
JO
Dojo: Aikikai de l'Université Laval
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Re: What is AIKI ? - fantastic video

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
I find these discussion of "appropriate levels of resistance" and who "owns a floor" and what is "acceptable levels of resistance" or not or what can be judged or discerned or not from various levels of pressure to be antithetical to a discussion of aiki. In the end you can either use Aiki full-on in "force-on-force" or you can't. If anyone (I really don't care who they are) hasn't been tested "all out" by someone who can actually fight and then actually DID fight them with weapons and without then its all rather academic isn't it?
I mostly agree with you, but there is always a social context to any situation. So when facing someone you don't know at a setting where they are in charge, suddenly trying to play by your rules rather than your own is actually kind of rude. If you consider the exchange of no value under his rules, the proper response is to walk out.

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
All it says is that these teachers may or may not have 'some" skills in aiki or IP, and they may or may not be able to use what they have a "little bit" in a controlled setting; kata, push hands, sparring, or all out in a real fight. In other words, their understanding and ability to teach IP/ aiki may be true and they might be able to teach it, but whether what they can show you will eventually work in a real fight is all just theory and hope isn't it?
I also think it is important to remember that martial skills (of any type) are not always sought by people for the purpose they were originally designed. I'm a strong follower of the principle that aikido is not about fighting yet should still maintain a sense of martial integrity. In that sense there should be real martial skill, but the ability to show that skill in an all out combat or even sportfighting setting is largely irrelevant. Then take the multitude of tai chi types that practice solely for health benefits (and I know that isn't all of them). Maybe what's important at that level becomes what the person claims he can do with his skill and what he markets his teaching as. Someone that is marketting themselves as an applied self defense teacher but hasn't used there skills under real pressure is a waste of time.

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
As far as danger levels
Men who really CAN deliver, have done so repeatedly in various venues without having to wreck people in doing so. Nor are they so emotional unstable that they "feel challenged" and then need to wreck people. I have yet to see MMA guys who actually can and do fight exhibit a routine lack of control.
Saying "You shouldn't try to fight a TMA "great" because of how dangerous it might be, he might hurt you." is the worst type of B.S. response imaginable. What does it say?
That a given teacher cannot or will not exhibit control; either due to a personality disorder or lack of skill in that control? What does that say about their supposed level of skill?
I'm sure you're quite aware that there are some dangerous arrogant assholes out there. So I would say that if you don't know the person and whether or not they are fully sane, yes you are taking a chance. Cheap shots are not below auch people and they will use their age and connections to get away with it and make you look like the one that was in the wrong. Nothing you can really do other than stay away from such types.

Of course, there are plenty of good TMA guys out there that are nice guys that don't feel the need to prove anything to anybody. Their YouTube clips tend to have less of the circus act feel to them in my opinion.

As for those who CAN deliver. No matter what type of skill you have, your not going to easily handle someone of similar skill. If someone as good as you decided to show you your flaws publicly, could you handle it easily without causing harm? So I would say randomly picking fights with strangers is a dangerous proposition, not to mention an illegal one.

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Frankly, this whole discussion stinks of the same "I can't use my Martial Arts techniques because they are deadly"... B.S. I have heard most of my adult life.
And "that" is why truly capable MMA people think Aiki, IP and Ki is total B.S., and I do not blame them.
Dan
MMA types, especially the sportfighting centered ones, have the fortune of working in a format with well structured goals and rules (not just the rules of the sport, but also of where and when different levels of resistance/intensity and types of training take place). They unfortunately have the tendency of often forgetting that there are other possible goals to martial arts training.

Jonathan Olson
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Old 03-28-2010, 07:15 PM   #64
JO
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Re: What is AIKI ? - fantastic video

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
I find these discussion of "appropriate levels of resistance" and who "owns a floor" and what is "acceptable levels of resistance" or not or what can be judged or discerned or not from various levels of pressure to be antithetical to a discussion of aiki. In the end you can either use Aiki full-on in "force-on-force" or you can't. If anyone (I really don't care who they are) hasn't been tested "all out" by someone who can actually fight and then actually DID fight them with weapons and without then its all rather academic isn't it?

All it says is that these teachers may or may not have 'some" skills in aiki or IP, and they may or may not be able to use what they have a "little bit" in a controlled setting; kata, push hands, sparring, or all out in a real fight. In other words, their understanding and ability to teach IP/ aiki may be true and they might be able to teach it, but whether what they can show you will eventually work in a real fight is all just theory and hope isn't it?
I mostly agree with you, but there is always a social context to any situation. So when facing someone you don't know at a setting where they are in charge, suddenly trying to play by your rules rather than theirs is actually kind of rude. If you consider the exchange of no value under his rules, the proper response is to walk out.

I also think it is important to remember that martial skills (of any type) are not always sought by people for the purpose they were originally designed. I'm a strong follower of the principle that aikido is not about fighting yet should still maintain a sense of martial integrity. In that sense there should be real martial skill, but the ability to show that skill in an all out combat or even sportfighting setting is largely irrelevant. Then take the multitude of tai chi types that practice solely for health benefits (and yes, I know that isn't all of them). Maybe what's important at that level becomes what the person claims he can do with his skill and what he markets his teaching as. Someone that is marketting themselves as an applied self defense teacher but hasn't used there skills under real pressure is a waste of time.

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
As far as danger levels
Men who really CAN deliver, have done so repeatedly in various venues without having to wreck people in doing so. Nor are they so emotional unstable that they "feel challenged" and then need to wreck people. I have yet to see MMA guys who actually can and do fight exhibit a routine lack of control.
Saying "You shouldn't try to fight a TMA "great" because of how dangerous it might be, he might hurt you." is the worst type of B.S. response imaginable. What does it say?
That a given teacher cannot or will not exhibit control; either due to a personality disorder or lack of skill in that control? What does that say about their supposed level of skill?
I'm sure you're quite aware that there are some dangerous arrogant assholes out there. So I would say that if you don't know the person and whether or not they are fully sane, yes you are taking a chance. Cheap shots are not below such people and they will use their age and connections to get away with it and make you look like the one that was in the wrong. Nothing you can really do other than stay away from such types.

Of course, there are plenty of good TMA guys out there that are nice guys that don't feel the need to prove anything to anybody. Their YouTube clips tend to have less of the circus act feel to them in my opinion.

As for those who CAN deliver. No matter what type of skill you have, your not going to easily handle someone of similar skill. If someone as good as you decided to show you your flaws publicly, could you handle it easily without causing harm? So I would say randomly picking fights with strangers is a dangerous proposition, not to mention an illegal one.

Also, the less parameters are controlled, the more accidents happen. A stray punch can kill. Someone jumps into my aikido class and starts throwing repeated hard puches to "test" me in his mind may get the "I'm fighting for my life" response from me. He's attacking in a way that's innapropriate and without prior agreement, the dojo becomes "the street", it certainly isn't "the ring".

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Frankly, this whole discussion stinks of the same "I can't use my Martial Arts techniques because they are deadly"... B.S. I have heard most of my adult life.
And "that" is why truly capable MMA people think Aiki, IP and Ki is total B.S., and I do not blame them.
Dan
MMA types, especially the sportfighting centered ones, have the fortune of working in a format with well structured goals and rules (not just the rules of the sport, but also of where and when different levels of resistance/intensity and types of training take place). They unfortunately have the tendency of often forgetting that there are other possible goals to martial arts training.

Fortunately, I don't see much of the I don't use my arts because they're deadly nonsense in my aikido circles. But I know it's out there.

Jonathan Olson
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Old 03-28-2010, 09:03 PM   #65
Randy Sexton
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Re: What is AIKI ? - fantastic video

If I were there I would have him try that on me and would love to see the result. I have seen some really amazing stuff based on real Aikido principles. Mastery of them allows one to blend with an attacker's energy to such a level that the balance and direction of force can be affected for a take down. However, I note no such entering or balance control here other than rolling and agonizing from their own minds. As previously stated above, "been there before" and I don't care to go there again. I have amazing Sensei teaching me the art of Aikido and realize with hard work and practice I can become amazing too but I don't care to waste my time with nonsense and rolling on the floor with self-induced confusion and delusion.
As an ER physician I understand well the power of the mind when it comes to pain and control.

Doc

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Gandhi
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Old 03-28-2010, 09:18 PM   #66
JO
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Re: What is AIKI ? - fantastic video

Quote:
Randy Sexton wrote: View Post
However, I note no such entering or balance control here other than rolling and agonizing from their own minds.
Doc
I pretty much agree with you on this, but there is one dimension I'm surprised nobody has brought up. There is clearly a good dose of group expectation (or should I call it mass hysteria) going on in that video. They are reacting the way they are expected to react and that they expect others to react. This is a powerful thing. People, especially in groups, can work themselves into strange states of mind. They're doing the aiki version of speaking in tongues, it's utter gibberish, but real to them, and fits into the world view they have created for themselves.

Jonathan Olson
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Old 03-28-2010, 10:58 PM   #67
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: What is AIKI ? - fantastic video

Quote:
Michael Crowell wrote: View Post
Hi Kevin. I live about an hour south of Jacksonville, but have family much closer...and I'm still trying to wrap my mind around what "IT" is all about.
Cool. I will actually be at Camp Blanding over in Starke...not sure how far that is from you.

Anyway, me too...trying to wrap my mind around IT. I've seen some interesting things over the past several years, damned if I can do much of it, but enjoying the journey for sure!

Maybe we can get together this summer!

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Old 03-29-2010, 11:11 AM   #68
Michael Douglas
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Re: What is AIKI ? - fantastic video

Ouch!
Quote:
Jonathan Olson wrote: View Post
... They're doing the aiki version of speaking in tongues, it's utter gibberish, ...
Good point Jonathan, although I'd point out that (under a different description) it has been touched upon in this thread. Personally I think that is the basic explanation for the awful Aiki video but to me the WORST thing about this is the sensei who believes he is having that affect on his performers.
You can blame the combination of human nature and non-competitive practice.
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Old 03-29-2010, 12:36 PM   #69
ChrisHein
 
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Re: What is AIKI ? - fantastic video

Quote:
Michael Douglas wrote: View Post
to me the WORST thing about this is the sensei who believes he is having that affect on his performers.
But he is having an effect, just not the one we all assume. Now whether that can be applied outside of his dojo, with people other then his students, or in more wide sweeping contexts is open to discussion.

We always want to call something REAL or FAKE. While this will get us through the things we don't care about, it's a little too simple for anything we really want to understand.

It's important that we understand what is happening so that we know if we are really interested in it or not.

I personally don't believe this exchange was scripted. I also believe that this teachers students likely believe something is happening to them. That means something IS happening to them. The sensei is leading their minds, this is a powerful thing, some might justifiably call this thing "Aiki".

Now can he do it to people who have been less conditioned? Good question! How far can you take this ability? Good question! How quickly can one be conditioned to do this? GREAT question!

Something is happening. At first we may think we are seeing magic. But it's our job as people who care about the Aiki related arts to actually get to the bottom of it.

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Old 03-29-2010, 02:26 PM   #70
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: What is AIKI ? - fantastic video

I know exactly what this teacher is doing. I could duplicate it as well if I had the same ukes. These ukes have been trained to a) amplify the wave energy as they feel it and to b) dissolve their own structures and let the wave flop them around. I can guarantee that it wouldn't look anything like that if I grabbed him.

These ukes have been trained to make their teacher look good. It's not that he isn't running the energy, you can see it if you know what you are looking at, it's just that what he is doing would not have that result if he worked with anyone who had his own understanding of structure. This is the same stuff as Watanabe Sensei's displays when he is throwing his ukes from ten feet away. The ukes have been trained to recognize and respond to changes in the direction of the teacher's intention. It might be an interesting display of sensitivity but it isn't martial arts at all. This is both sensitive and reactive. What we strive for is sensitivity without reactivity.

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Old 03-29-2010, 02:29 PM   #71
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Re: What is AIKI ? - fantastic video

Quote:
Chris Hein wrote: View Post
But he is having an effect, just not the one we all assume.
This is a good point. What we are seeing may not be great aiki but it certainly is great personal power. Not everyone can get otherwise sensible people to suspend their common sense like this.

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Old 03-29-2010, 02:35 PM   #72
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: What is AIKI ? - fantastic video

Quote:
Michael Douglas wrote: View Post
That one won't play for me ... is it similar to this one?
http://www.youtube.com/user/willustr.../4/iuPHFSrC_zw
Not similar at all. I actually liked this one. This fellow knows what he is doing...

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Old 03-29-2010, 02:59 PM   #73
ChrisHein
 
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Re: What is AIKI ? - fantastic video

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
Not everyone can get otherwise sensible people to suspend their common sense like this.
Yeap!

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Old 03-29-2010, 05:25 PM   #74
Michael Varin
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Re: What is AIKI ? - fantastic video

Quote:
Michael Douglas wrote:
That one won't play for me ... is it similar to this one?
http://www.youtube.com/user/willustr.../4/iuPHFSrC_zw
Quote:
George Ledyard wrote:
Not similar at all. I actually liked this one. This fellow knows what he is doing...
The first nage in that video is the same person who is nage in the the video from the original post that sparked this dicussion. I like the way he moves and throws, also, but it should be pointed out that his uke is still totally cooperative. In that way, the uke is still facilitating the appearance of the outcome.

Quote:
George Ledyard wrote:
These ukes have been trained to make their teacher look good. It's not that he isn't running the energy, you can see it if you know what you are looking at, it's just that what he is doing would not have that result if he worked with anyone who had his own understanding of structure.
I, personally, would replace having an understanding of structure with the dropping of the uke-nage roles, the will and intent to apply techniques to your opponent and to counteract his. I can have my own understanding of structure, but if my goal is to provide the energy for a specific technique, then receive the technique and let you throw me the result will look exactly the same.

And because that statement applies to both videos, it is inaccurate to say they are "not similar at all."

-Michael
"Through aiki we can feel the mind of the enemy who comes to attack and are thus able to respond immediately." - M. Mochizuki
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Old 03-29-2010, 05:40 PM   #75
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Re: What is AIKI ? - fantastic video

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George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
Not everyone can get otherwise sensible people to suspend their common sense like this.
ROFL! Don't hold back, George... Tell us what you think.
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