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Old 02-10-2010, 05:43 AM   #1
alexmasters
 
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Dojo: Kuma Aikido
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Sansho (3 Victories)

I need your help folks!

I'm looking for any information that can validate what I know as: Sansho 'The 3 Victories'
as taught/demonstrated by Chiba Sensei. It compromises of 3 parts, which all fit together
into one conversation against 2 attackers:

Victory against the first Attacker is Part 1, once the first attacker is beaten, the second attacker
appears behind with their Jo pressed against the bottom of the victors back and this starts Part 2.

From what I'm aware of Part 3 is a continuation of Part 2 in the event that the Attacker blocks
the second Victory, meaning it can continue into part 3 until the 3rd Victory.

Phew I hope that makes sense, it's quite hard to summarise.

I have only ever seen it practiced by Dan graders that have practiced directly with him and I've
never it ('it' being 'The 3 Victories') online in any videos, or documented in any articles.

I do have a recollection of seeing it in a 'Jo' book somewhere in a step-by-step tutorial,
but my memory could be playing tricks on me.

We think we have it down to a fine art but we have no reference to check it against,
so can anyone shed some light on the '3 Victories' in the form of a visual guide or a
video or something. That would be extremely helpful.

Many thanks,

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Old 02-10-2010, 07:16 PM   #2
gtaba
Dojo: Riverside Aikikai
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Re: Sansho (3 Victories)

Alex,

I've been practicing sansho for nearly 3 years now. My sensei, was one of Chiba's students before he retired as active director of Birankai. Now, he's still considered a student of Chiba for all intensive purposes.

While it may seem strange that a shodan would be practicing sansho for so long, the plain truth is that Sensei Bash (my sensei) really views weapons as key to understanding movement, timing, and attacking when unarmed. To fulfill this, we're thrown into weapons as soon as we're ready.

You are correct to a point about it being against two attackers, but for the most part, due to a lack of enough students who know sansho, most dojo just make the 1st attacker fill both roles.

PM me and i'll send you a link to myself and another yudansha doing sansho for our dojo as a demonstration.

Hope this helps!

-Greg T.

Out of curiosity, why the interest? Most students I've met avoid sansho like the plague.
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Old 02-10-2010, 10:42 PM   #3
Janet Rosen
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Re: Sansho (3 Victories)

Quote:
Greg Tabata wrote: View Post
Out of curiosity, why the interest? Most students I've met avoid sansho like the plague.
LOL! Many many yrs ago I trained at a dojo that did Chiba Sensei weapons (and yes, it was with one person taking the role of front and back attackers...), and I LOVED shansho - at least the section I worked on then which was part 1 and most of part 2 - it was what taught me how much I really love weapons work in general.

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 02-11-2010, 03:08 AM   #4
alexmasters
 
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Re: Sansho (3 Victories)

Thanks Greg, glad someone is familiar.

Yes we also practice this in pairs, with the first attacker taking on the role of the second,
with a quick run around to the back!

I regularly practice this with my Sensei, who also practiced with Chiba Sensei. I am very
happy to hear that Sensei Bash also views weapons as being as integral a part of Aikido
as my Sensei does. We are in good hands!

I meet a lot of people who have done very little weapon work, if any at all, I'm talking all
the way up 1st Dan and 2nd Dan grades who have been practicing Aikido for many many
years. I find it shocking that weapons was/is not a fundamental part of their training.

For me and my Sensei it is the foundation for all Aikido, the sword and the Jo are at the
heart of almost all Aikido techniques and hold the key to understanding and perfecting the art.

It's great to hear another student talk about their Aikido this way, I find it strange that students
would avoid Sansho (and maybe also the 31 Jo Kata for that matter), I find it/them extremely
helpful and very fun to practice.

Maybe it's because I've practiced all of this from day one, I don't know. Everyone seems to have
their favourite techniques and areas or should I say; areas that are clear as day in their minds.
Mine have always been Jo and Bokken, with these being the foundations of Aikido I'm thankful of this.
(Irimi-nage - Not so much, no idea why! haha)

I'll PM you and get the link.

@Janet - Glad to hear your happy Sansho story! I hope you get to learn the other half, it's great.

Thanks Greg!

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Old 02-11-2010, 06:14 PM   #5
Rob Watson
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Re: Sansho (3 Victories)

While I can't say I've ever done sansho (I might have but didn't know it) I think there might be a smallish section on some of the USAF western region summer camp tapes.

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
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Old 02-12-2010, 10:06 AM   #6
ninjaqutie
 
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Re: Sansho (3 Victories)

My sensei was a student of Chiba Sensei, but I have yet to see this practiced. Maybe I can ask one of our 3rd dans about it and see if he knows of a place where you might find information. I'm sure there are videos out there somewhere. He has tons of Chiba Sensei (whether he taped them himself or not I don't know)

~Look into the eyes of your opponent & steal his spirit.
~To be a good martial artist is to be good thief; if you want my knowledge, you must take it from me.
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Old 02-12-2010, 10:31 AM   #7
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: Sansho (3 Victories)

Chiba Sensei put a lot of thought into that Kata. I only know Parts 1 & 2 because Chiba Sensei hadn't taught the third part to anyone but his most senior students back when i wqas training with him occasionally.

Bruce Bookman Sensei in Seattle does a wonderful rendition of this kata, at least I assume he still does. I always meant to have him over for a class and ask him if he'd teach us part three. This has been on my "to do" list for years now.

Anyway, I think that Sansho is a valuable contribution to the art. It's quite different than either Saito Sensei's or Saotome Sensei's Jo. It's easily one of the most fun forms to do, especially when you get to the point at which you can really cook on it.

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
Bellevue, WA
Aikido Eastside
AikidoDvds.Com
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Old 02-12-2010, 02:04 PM   #8
Rob Watson
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Re: Sansho (3 Victories)

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
I only know Parts 1 & 2 because Chiba Sensei hadn't taught the third part
This was my recollection as during a seminar all the sempai were pleadingly asking Chiba sensei when they could do part 2 (these folks had been at it for decades!) and Chiba kept saying "not ready". This was back in the mid 90's sometime.

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
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Old 02-12-2010, 05:20 PM   #9
Janet Rosen
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Re: Sansho (3 Victories)

I may be totally wrong...it's been many years... but from the dim recesses of middle aged grey matter I believe that there are the kata known as Sansho 1-3, but that Sansho 1 has three parts and that it is the three parts of Sansho 1 to which the OP is referring and it is the first and second parts of Sansho 1 that I was working on back when - because there was never any indication that I was not going to progress to the third section and I was a pretty lowly ranked kyu person then.

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 02-16-2010, 04:53 PM   #10
James Edwards
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Re: Sansho (3 Victories)

Here's Sansho 1 and Sansho 2 by Steve Beecham sensei, a student of Chiba sensei:
http://www.londoneastaikikai.co.uk/media.aspx

This video has a small portion of Chiba sensei performing Sansho:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9U1ZT1DAI5M

Video for Sansho 3 (part a) is on the Birankai NA summer school 2008 DVD.

From what I understand is that there are 3 sansho forms and each one has 3 parts. And practiced properly, I don't think it's fun, it's scary.
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Old 02-16-2010, 05:10 PM   #11
Janet Rosen
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Re: Sansho (3 Victories)

Quote:
James Edwards wrote: View Post
From what I understand is that there are 3 sansho forms and each one has 3 parts. And practiced properly, I don't think it's fun, it's scary.
Yes....and yes!
and thank you....

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 02-18-2010, 09:44 AM   #12
ninjaqutie
 
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Re: Sansho (3 Victories)

I also asked a sandan at my dojo and he also said there are 3 kata and each one has three parts. He said that Chiba sensei doesn't really teach it too much anymore because he thought it was too long and complicated for most people. In fact, because I brought it up I learned part one to sansho one last night. Perks of being the only student in the weapons class yesterday. I personally thought it was a lot of fun. In fact, I learned the four different endings for sansho one part one. Any of you learn the different endings too?

~Look into the eyes of your opponent & steal his spirit.
~To be a good martial artist is to be good thief; if you want my knowledge, you must take it from me.
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Old 02-19-2010, 12:22 AM   #13
Risu
 
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Re: Sansho (3 Victories)

I know sansho 1(parts1-3) and 2(parts 1-3) and part of the beginning of sansho 3. Sensei wants our whole dojo to know sansho 1 so we've been working on it ALOT recently.
Quote:
Any of you learn the different endings too?
Yes, I have learned them. I find that the two that are similar to makiotoshi seem to be more difficult than the other two.

Wait, umm... what?
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Old 02-23-2010, 04:09 PM   #14
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
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Re: Sansho (3 Victories)

Quote:
Alex Masters wrote: View Post
I need your help folks!

I'm looking for any information that can validate what I know as: Sansho 'The 3 Victories'
as taught/demonstrated by Chiba Sensei. It compromises of 3 parts, which all fit together
into one conversation against 2 attackers:

Victory against the first Attacker is Part 1, once the first attacker is beaten, the second attacker
appears behind with their Jo pressed against the bottom of the victors back and this starts Part 2.

From what I'm aware of Part 3 is a continuation of Part 2 in the event that the Attacker blocks
the second Victory, meaning it can continue into part 3 until the 3rd Victory.

Phew I hope that makes sense, it's quite hard to summarise.

I have only ever seen it practiced by Dan graders that have practiced directly with him and I've
never it ('it' being 'The 3 Victories') online in any videos, or documented in any articles.

I do have a recollection of seeing it in a 'Jo' book somewhere in a step-by-step tutorial,
but my memory could be playing tricks on me.

We think we have it down to a fine art but we have no reference to check it against,
so can anyone shed some light on the '3 Victories' in the form of a visual guide or a
video or something. That would be extremely helpful.

Many thanks,
Hi,
Contact me on 0191 2372908 .I can give information which might assist you. Cheers,J.C.
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