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Old 02-12-2010, 06:26 PM   #51
Ali B
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

If you want to and its not harming others - why are people so concerned? From a spitiual perspective, you will already know the answer. A lot of judgemental people out there, obviously living perfect lives.
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Old 02-12-2010, 07:04 PM   #52
Aikibu
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

Quote:
Alison Macdiarmid wrote: View Post
If you want to and its not harming others - why are people so concerned? From a spitiual perspective, you will already know the answer. A lot of judgemental people out there, obviously living perfect lives.
The biggest Fallacy ever is that you don't harm others...

Over a thousand innocent people have died in the border towns of Mexico this year so that some folks can use harmless drugs...

Every choice a person makes with regards to using 'harmless" drugs should be mindful of the real cost of their choices. That is the proper spiritual context IMO.

William Hazen
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Old 02-12-2010, 07:21 PM   #53
Nikopol
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

Quote:
Ashley Carter wrote: View Post
Uck... I can't say what you should do... but I will not EVER touch that or any other drug for that matter. I have seen what drugs do to people first hand. No thanks...
If you see what I mean, you are getting a lot of emotional reaction to your question. While I agree that Cannabis should not be abused, it should not be lumped together with manufactured narcotics or even prescription pharmaceuticals. And as to a previous poster who made a comment about Aikido being designed to free you from "Modern technology" or something like that, it should be noted that Cannabis is a naturally occurring medicinal herb that predates modern medicine.

And so it should be treated as such, it should not be used "recreationally"; as I stated, if you have to ask, don't go to the dojo under the influence.

Let me also go slightly off-topic, for a good cause here. There is a current medical "fad" of prescribing anti-anxiety medications for a variety of real and concocted "conditions". These drugs have been documented to cause or worsen psychosis. No doubt many of the posters in this thread would not object to Aikidoka showing up for training under the influence of these pharmaceuticals.

I generally suggest Aikido as an alternative to this sort of treatment. In my experience, Aikido training has a profound effect on mental as well as physical health.

It is absolutely correct that dependence on "drugs" leads to negative states. But better that we emphasize that Aikido training is a higher high than any chemical, when one starts to develop ki, and I personally consider it the closest thing to a panacea.
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Old 02-12-2010, 08:10 PM   #54
Johann Baptista
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

Quote:
Vincent Nikopol wrote: View Post
And as to a previous poster who made a comment about Aikido being designed to free you from "Modern technology" or something like that, it should be noted that Cannabis is a naturally occurring medicinal herb that predates modern medicine.
I believe I am the poster you are referring to. Lets just make an amendment here; I never said Aikido was designed to free anyone from modern technology. I said overuse of technology draws us away from the source. The source means nature. And none of that had anything to do with cannabis; it was on a completely unrelated note. I agree that cannabis is a powerful medicinal herb, but I simply don't think using it for the sole purpose of altering your mind is a very natural practice, like you. And... it has many health problems.
- Johann
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Old 02-12-2010, 08:50 PM   #55
Nikopol
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

Quote:
Johann Baptista wrote: View Post
I believe I am the poster you are referring to. Lets just make an amendment here; I never said Aikido was designed to free anyone from modern technology. I said overuse of technology draws us away from the source. The source means nature. And none of that had anything to do with cannabis; it was on a completely unrelated note. I agree that cannabis is a powerful medicinal herb, but I simply don't think using it for the sole purpose of altering your mind is a very natural practice, like you. And... it has many health problems.
- Johann
Thanks, Johann,

I also agree wholeheartedly about the overuse of technology and the misuse of substances. The source is nature, and isn't amazing how little people understand about one of nature's most powerful substances, air. That's the beauty of Aikido and Kokyu power!!
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Old 02-12-2010, 11:35 PM   #56
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

In a word no.

Not that I have anything against Marijuana, I just think it is a recreational thing. I certainly would not want to practice with anyone who is high. As to off the mat....Well "pot heads" are less likely to get into bar fights than drunks, but experience has taught me that any kind of intoxication can interfere with proper judgment (discernment) and can cause the trust of the individual to come into question. Nobody with slurred speech has ever made a persuasive argument for peace.

In general I have found that for someone not well versed in a Shamanic tradition and experienced with alternate states of mind brought on without intoxicants will not gain anything using them in their practice. In the cultures that use peyote and other hallucinogens, even mild ones like pot, restrict them only to well trained shamans. There are good and valid reasons for this. We should respect those cultures and their reasoning. They have had thousands of years of experience with this stuff.

Keep a clear head and things will appear much clearer to you.

Happy Shugyo,

John B. Davis
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Old 02-13-2010, 05:43 AM   #57
Laurens Schaberg
 
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

A fellow aikidoist once showed up smelling like marihuana because he slept over at a friend who smoked. Though he doesn't smoke weed, he was 'shunned' for the rest of that class and it did do some damage to his reputation. Even though you yourself may not be judgmental about drugs, others might and isolate you. Some people may act cool and say: 'if they isolate me because of the smell, they're not worth my time ' but if your partner dislikes the smell, and you're the source of that smell, then I can understand. Personally I think he should have refrained from training when he opened his bag and realized that it would become an awkward situation,

Learned much, forgot even more.
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Old 02-13-2010, 06:41 AM   #58
bulevardi
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

Quote:
William Hazen wrote: View Post
Over a thousand innocent people have died in the border towns of Mexico this year so that some folks can use harmless drugs...

Every choice a person makes with regards to using 'harmless" drugs should be mindful of the real cost of their choices. That is the proper spiritual context IMO.
On the other hand... hundreds of people at Inbev Brewery lost their jobs because of people stopped drinking beer, which is alcohol(drug). In that case: keep consuming alcohol so people won't lose their jobs.

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Old 02-13-2010, 06:44 AM   #59
bulevardi
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

Actually, could Aikido be an addiction at some time? A drug that keeps you going back to the tatami. A drug that keeps your Ki flow through your body.
A drug that kills harmless uke's.

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Old 02-13-2010, 11:21 AM   #60
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

Quote:
William Hazen wrote: View Post
The biggest Fallacy ever is that you don't harm others...

Over a thousand innocent people have died in the border towns of Mexico this year so that some folks can use harmless drugs...

Every choice a person makes with regards to using 'harmless" drugs should be mindful of the real cost of their choices. That is the proper spiritual context IMO.

William Hazen
In so many ways it's like the prohibition of alcohol: I say legalize it and tax it in order to diminish the effects of the black market. I agree with your point that it's important to consider the fullest range of effects, but simply put, many folks don't harm others with their choice to imbibe. Of course, that all depends on where it's coming from. It also depends on the individual's choice on whether or not to act responsibly in other matters.
I'm always shocked at how against marijuana people are, while at the same time holding no problems with booze. Alcohol kills very easily; marijuana doesn't. Alcohol impairs inhibitions and motor skills; marijuana doesn't, or if it does it's a minute fraction by comparison.
I've said about all I can think to say on this subject so I'll probably quit after this. I don't like playing devil's advocate for things like this because I would hate to be the one to compel a person to do something they could later regret. On the other hand it was discovering the BS surrounding anti-pot ads which caused a huge contempt in me for the war on drugs and which caused me to question other far more valid warnings. Those ads did more harm than good in my neck of the woods. So, with that in mind I'd just like to finish with the idea that in all things moderation is key and that personally, as a guy who smoked pot regularly for well over a decade, I don't think it will make much of a positive effect on anyone's aikido training...no more so than going out and getting drunk will, at any rate.
Take care folks and be careful!
Matt

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 02-13-2010, 11:54 AM   #61
Aikibu
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

Quote:
Matthew Gano wrote: View Post
In so many ways it's like the prohibition of alcohol: I say legalize it and tax it in order to diminish the effects of the black market. I agree with your point that it's important to consider the fullest range of effects, but simply put, many folks don't harm others with their choice to imbibe. Of course, that all depends on where it's coming from. It also depends on the individual's choice on whether or not to act responsibly in other matters.
I'm always shocked at how against marijuana people are, while at the same time holding no problems with booze. Alcohol kills very easily; marijuana doesn't. Alcohol impairs inhibitions and motor skills; marijuana doesn't, or if it does it's a minute fraction by comparison.
I've said about all I can think to say on this subject so I'll probably quit after this. I don't like playing devil's advocate for things like this because I would hate to be the one to compel a person to do something they could later regret. On the other hand it was discovering the BS surrounding anti-pot ads which caused a huge contempt in me for the war on drugs and which caused me to question other far more valid warnings. Those ads did more harm than good in my neck of the woods. So, with that in mind I'd just like to finish with the idea that in all things moderation is key and that personally, as a guy who smoked pot regularly for well over a decade, I don't think it will make much of a positive effect on anyone's aikido training...no more so than going out and getting drunk will, at any rate.
Take care folks and be careful!
Matt
I am with you Matt I say legalize too...Get rid of the Criminal Element...The USA is the largest consumer of hard drugs in the world...The Taliban various Mafias and Gangs all fund a majority of their criminal enterprises with drugs sold in the US...
With the largest prison population on the planet... two thirds of those for drug related offenses the US has lost the "war" on drugs...
Since the days of Richard Nixon the war on drugs has been a farce...It's time we start treating the disease and stop punishing people.

William Hazen
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Old 02-14-2010, 04:49 AM   #62
bulevardi
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

Here in Belgium, it's allowed to use marihuana at home or to possess it in small quantities.
We are not allowed to deal in marihuana.
No one has problems with black market here or other issues of big criminality, etc...

In our neighbourcountry Netherlands, they sell marihuana legally in the local coffeeshops where you can use it in public too. There's not really a big problem with it.

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Old 02-14-2010, 10:32 AM   #63
Aikibu
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

Quote:
Dirk Desmet wrote: View Post
Here in Belgium, it's allowed to use marihuana at home or to possess it in small quantities.
We are not allowed to deal in marihuana.
No one has problems with black market here or other issues of big criminality, etc...

In our neighbourcountry Netherlands, they sell marihuana legally in the local coffeeshops where you can use it in public too. There's not really a big problem with it.
Thats the way it should be here...In our state of California we get to vote in November to legalize it.

http://democrats.assembly.ca.gov/mem...2AD13PR03.aspx

Back to the topic it I don't care what one does responsibly off the tatami it's really none of my business... but my point is there is no such thing as harming only yourself...Drug Use is one thing Drug Abuse another... harming yourself also hurts everyone in your life.. those who love you...your friends...The folks who share the road with you when you're high...Your workplace...Your Sempai and Kohei's ect.ect.

William Hazen
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Old 02-14-2010, 06:42 PM   #64
Johann Baptista
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

Quote:
John Davis wrote: View Post
In general I have found that for someone not well versed in a Shamanic tradition and experienced with alternate states of mind brought on without intoxicants will not gain anything using them in their practice. In the cultures that use peyote and other hallucinogens, even mild ones like pot, restrict them only to well trained shamans. There are good and valid reasons for this. We should respect those cultures and their reasoning. They have had thousands of years of experience with this stuff.

Keep a clear head and things will appear much clearer to you.
Let me make another amendment. I agree with you. If a mind-altering plant like Peyote is used in a mindful fashion, and not constantly, it can be a wonderful thing. I think that true shamans learned to use it as a stepping stone to higher mind sates, and once these states could be achieved without the drug, they abandoned them. This is not how it is in every culture; but I think that the spiritual stepping stone must be abandoned sometime. It is not in my power to dictate what kind of stepping stone is used. I would just rather not use a drug from the start, but hey, it could even be helpful. However, abuse of a drug for entertainment, like you mentioned, is a terrible thing.

-Johann
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Old 02-15-2010, 09:41 AM   #65
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

Quote:
Vincent Nikopol wrote: View Post
If you see what I mean, you are getting a lot of emotional reaction to your question. While I agree that Cannabis should not be abused, it should not be lumped together with manufactured narcotics or even prescription pharmaceuticals.
If you grew up the way I did, then perhaps you would have an emotional response as well. I also never said that it should be lumped in with other drugs. I simply stated that I have no desire to try any drugs (other then properly prescribed and administered pharmaceuticals).

I won't go as far as to say that there are not medicinal uses for any of these drugs, because there are. People smoke marijuana for various reasons (and living in Oregon and working with police I can state first hand that this medicinal marijuana growers issue causes a whole lot of problems), cocaine is used for nasal surgeries, etc.

I didn't say what any of you should do. I'm simply stating that you will not catch me near that stuff.

~Look into the eyes of your opponent & steal his spirit.
~To be a good martial artist is to be good thief; if you want my knowledge, you must take it from me.
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Old 02-16-2010, 11:12 AM   #66
delliott
 
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

Quote:
Andrew Gordan wrote: View Post
ttht
Practicing true Budo should be all the "high" that you need, my friend....

"Life is growth. If we stop growing, technically and spiritually, we are as good as dead. "

O-Sensei
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Old 02-19-2010, 04:07 PM   #67
darrenbrooks
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

Hello. This is my first post, and being a doctor of oriental medicine, as well as a long time Aikido student, this post caught my attention.

In my Chinese medicine practice, I treat several patients who have the attitude that smoking pot is not a big deal, and that it just relaxes them, helping them be more creative, or whatever.

In my experience, all these patients have a similar diagnosis, that of Dampness, or rather, the pathological thickening of fluids in the lymph, blood and tissues. This condition leads to resistance for circulation and a feeling of heaviness and sluggishness, both in body and channel circulation of Qi (or rather, Ki).

In Chinese herbal medicine, we use cannabis seeds (which I believe have properties similar to the leaves, although a bit less moistening quality) in a specific way, to moisten the intestines and to Nourish the Yin, which means to encourage the production of fluids to counteract tissue deterioration and inflammation (such as occurs in constipation in the elderly, or after a febrile illness, for example).

Furthermore, the repeated use a substance to reduce stress begs the question, why is that stress occurring in the first place, and is the person evolving in their resolution of these issues, or simply seeking a way to adjust their experience so they can continue avoidance?

Not very Aikido-ish, I would say.
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Old 02-19-2010, 10:25 PM   #68
Garth Jones
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

If somebody comes to my dojo drunk or high, they will get booted right out the door. Lack of good motor control and judgement leads to unsafe practice and there is no room for that.
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Old 02-20-2010, 11:21 AM   #69
Eugene Leslie
 
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

Once again....no.

This thread has digressed into pro-pot/anti-pot.

I've been there done that and there's a reason Marijuana is illegal.

I don't like to think of kids using it during their important formative teen years.

It will mess with one's cognitive functions.

Learning anything while high on THC will be marred by delusions of progress and loss of short term memory.

All you "cool running" smoker's cannot refute that.

On a tropical island eating bananas and surfing sure...why not.
An eccentric professor or dedicated artist in the shadows. o.k.

But in THIS society, with my nephews and neices and
law-enforcement officers in the trenches I don't buy your "it's o.k." and "legalize it..man" crap.

Self-discipline is the chief element of self-esteem; and self-esteem the chief element of courage. Thucydides
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Old 02-20-2010, 01:03 PM   #70
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

Quote:
Dirk Desmet wrote: View Post
In our neighbourcountry Netherlands, they sell marihuana legally in the local coffeeshops where you can use it in public too. There's not really a big problem with it.
There are some problems with it: the coffeeshops are allowed to sell marihuana, but they are not allowed to buy it. They're also not allowed to grow it in the quantities necessary to do enough business. So the growing of marihuana is for a large part in the hands of criminal organizations. This fact is then used by some people to argue in favor of banning marihuana again, ignoring the fact that the problem is the half-baked current policy. (None of this is in the law btw, it's just the current policy to allow the coffeeshops.)
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Old 02-20-2010, 04:27 PM   #71
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

Quote:
Eugene Leslie wrote: View Post
All you "cool running" smoker's cannot refute that.
Emphasis mine.

IMO, It doesn't improve the dialogue to take a "this is what I think, and if you don't agree with me 100%, this is what you are!" approach.
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Old 02-20-2010, 06:09 PM   #72
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

Hi folks,

Let's try to steer the discussion back to being directly pertinent to aikido and the original topic. If you wish to discuss a more general topic, please do so in the Open Discussions forum.

Thanks,

-- Jun

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Old 02-21-2010, 12:42 AM   #73
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

Personally, I don't care if someone gets high, drunk, or both, in his/her free time. But during practice, I want a sober partner.

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Old 02-21-2010, 05:35 PM   #74
gregstec
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

I have been trying to refrain from jumping in on this thread due to its obvious volatile topic, but since I spent my formative years in the 60's, I felt that Janis, Jimi, Jerry, as well as some other notable visionary's of that era, would say to this question: " What's your Point?"

So, "Farm Out, Right Arm, and Party on, Dude" (if you are scratching your head trying to figure out this last statement, you are obviously too young and need to spend some time in a 'head shop' getting a proper perspective on things)
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Old 02-22-2010, 01:39 PM   #75
Phil Van Treese
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Re: should you smoke marijuana on your aikido journey

With all the stuff out there about smoking and the various kinds of cancer, why would you want to destroy yourself slowly and risk cancer??? IF someone would walk into my dojo "High" or smelling of weed, leaving the dojo would be the fastest "trip" he'd ever have.
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