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Old 01-25-2010, 07:14 AM   #1
Shane Goodrich
Location: Willimantic, CT
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 14
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Long tern effects on the body from Internal Trainig, is there a risk?

I recently became interested in internal martial and have considered starting to practice on my own, I have hesitated to really to start because of some warnings I received from people about doing the stuff incorrectly can cause damage(this was in regards to the Aunkai method) to the body.

But I was wondering about internal training in general(done correctly) and the long tern effects on the body. Using the ligaments,tendons etc in such odd ways seems like it could lead to damaging them.

What do you think about this, I doubt there are studys do to the small number of people(relatively) practicing in IA. But perhaps some people have there own experience to draw on from teaching others or from hearing from your doctor,etc

And please lets try to not use arguments like, well I have done it for 40 years and I am fine ergo it must be safe(though if you have trained IA for a while I would like to know how you feel). Its like saying well that guy smoked 2 packs a day for his whole life and he is 91 with no lung problems therefor smoking does not hurt the lungs.

And if it matters I would be training using Dan Hardens method and/or Aunkai.

Last edited by Shane Goodrich : 01-25-2010 at 07:15 AM. Reason: Wow, I wish I recheck my title...
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Old 01-25-2010, 07:46 AM   #2
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
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Re: Long tern effects on the body from Internal Trainig, is there a risk?

The best advice I have been given is to be carefull about how much power you put into the movements in the beginning. Build up slowly over time. Also, you may see issues with hypertension from some of the breathing exercises. Again, just a little each day and build up, and maybe do some studying on yogic locks to isolate the pressure below the head.

Not an expert, so maybe find one who can give more concrete advice in these areas.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 01-25-2010, 08:36 AM   #3
Shane Goodrich
Location: Willimantic, CT
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 14
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Re: Long tern effects on the body from Internal Trainig, is there a risk?

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote: View Post
The best advice I have been given is to be carefull about how much power you put into the movements in the beginning. Build up slowly over time. Also, you may see issues with hypertension from some of the breathing exercises. Again, just a little each day and build up, and maybe do some studying on yogic locks to isolate the pressure below the head.

Not an expert, so maybe find one who can give more concrete advice in these areas.

Best,
Ron
Thanks for the advice, but what I am really aiming for is information regarding the effect on the body(long term) from internal training(done correctly).

Does/can Internal Training done correctly causes harm to the body, using the various connective tissues instead of the muscles to power your movements makes me wonder about this.
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Old 01-25-2010, 09:22 AM   #4
bob_stra
Location: Australia
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 641
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Re: Long tern effects on the body from Internal Trainig, is there a risk?

Well...how about this as a start?

http://scholar.google.com.au/scholar..._ylo=&as_vis=0

Eg/

Quote:
Kinematic and electromyographic analysis of the push movement in tai chi

http://bjsportmed.com/cgi/content/abstract/37/4/339

Conclusion: The eccentric muscle contraction of the lower limbs in the push movement of tai chi may help to strengthen the muscles.
Quote:
ELECTROMYOGRAPHIC ANALYSIS OF TAI CHI

http://sciencelinks.jp/j-east/articl...06A0864145.php

Abstract;The purpose of this study was to analyse electromyographic characteristics of Tai Chi. The subjects, six healthy men, performed; (1) the maximum voluntary contraction (MVC) of each tested muscle; (2) three forms in 24-style Tai Chi; (3) on a bicycle ergometer (100 w) and jogging (120m/s). For each muscle, the maximum integrated EMG for one second was computed and standardized by MVC(%MVC). The results were as follows: (1) High muscle activity was observed during Tai Chi. In five muscles, the %MVC exceeded 60%. (2) In the rectus femoris m., the %MVC of Tai Chi was 6.8 times that of the bicycle ergometer and 10.3 times that of jogging (p<0.01). In a similar way, in the tibialis anterior m., the %MVC was 7.1 and 4.8 times (p<0.01), and in the rectus abdominis m., the %MVC was 6.3 and 4.9 times (p<0.01). We conclude that Tai Chi might be useful as an exercise in muscle strength training. (author abst.)

Last edited by bob_stra : 01-25-2010 at 09:28 AM.
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Old 01-25-2010, 10:13 AM   #5
C. David Henderson
Location: Santa Fe New Mexico
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Re: Long tern effects on the body from Internal Trainig, is there a risk?

Very interesting: from the abstract of bjsportmed.com/cgi/content/abstract/37/4/339:

Results: The medial hamstrings and medial head of gastrocnemius muscle groups maintained low low activity, with higher electromyographic values in the lumbar erector spinae and substantially higher ones in the rectus femoris during the push movement. Both concentric and eccentric contractions occurred in muscles of the lower limbs, with eccentric contraction occurring mainly in the anti-gravity muscles such as the rectus femoris and the medial head of gastrocnemius. The forward and backward shifts in centre of gravity (CG) were mainly accomplished by increasing and decreasing respectively the joint angles of the bilateral lower limbs rather than by adopting a forward or backward postural lean. The path of the CG in the anteroposterior and mediolateral component was unique, and the sway or deviation from the path was small. The master maintained an upright posture and maintained a low CG (hips, knees, and ankles bent) while travelling slowly and steadily from one position to another.

David Henderson
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Old 01-25-2010, 11:16 AM   #6
Alex Lee
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8
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Re: Long tern effects on the body from Internal Trainig, is there a risk?

I wouldnt call using body in odd ways. Its more like you are using parts of your body that is not used very often. Thus weak.

IP helps develop and strengthen those weak spots. No different then training your self up to run marathons. You wouldnt go straight out and run 26mi would you?

The damage happens when most people underestimate how weak those points and how much energy/weight they are working with.

$.02
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