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Old 09-30-2009, 08:06 PM   #1
NagaBaba
 
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Dreaming about MMA?

There were a lot of discussion about aikido and MMA. Did you dream about doing some competition?

Watch!

http://vimeo.com/6458558

Nagababa

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Old 09-30-2009, 08:55 PM   #2
dps
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Re: Dreaming about MMA?

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote: View Post
There were a lot of discussion about aikido and MMA. Did you dream about doing some competition?

Watch!

http://vimeo.com/6458558
Wow! But I'd rather watch "Tenkan of Steel".

David
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Old 09-30-2009, 09:32 PM   #3
Suru
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Re: Dreaming about MMA?

That is a powerful video, especially combined with the song. At first I hated the UFC. Then I realized that no one is forcing these guys to train MMA including/or jiujustu then get into an octagon and feel excruciating pain. Now I disapprove anyway, but occasionally do find myself watching a fight now and then. It is really unfortunate that MMA either has become, or is becoming the most popular martial art(s). A good karate sensei (not Ericson from Rambo in the Cobra Kai) teaches the art as self-defense, instructing his or her students to basically never use their karate techniques except if absolutely necessary for survival. I want there to be karateka. I want there to be judoka. I want there to be aikidoka, and practitioners of other arts that have the aim of developing the spirit, body, and mind, instead of being martial in and of themselves. I don't know if it is society changing, or just me growing up, but it seems like apathy toward others and raw selfishness are becoming mainstream. "I've got the UFC heavyweight belt. Yeah, yeah, look at me, I'm going to have sex with Carmen Electra! I recently watched a movie that went straight to my computer screen on Netflix. For those who haven't studied much Eastern thought (which becomes more Western every day unfortunately), I recommend a movie about ten questions for the Dalai Lama. Now, I think he is a wonderful person. I don't look at him like a king, and he doesn't want me to! He is surely not the only down-to-earth person on the happier side in the world, but he is a great example of one who is well-known. I do not recall the title, but I think it's along the lines of "Ten Questions for the Dalai Lama." He's happier than me for the right reasons. And I love him for that.

Drew
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Old 10-01-2009, 06:06 AM   #4
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Re: Dreaming about MMA?

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote: View Post
There were a lot of discussion about aikido and MMA. Did you dream about doing some competition?

Watch!

http://vimeo.com/6458558
That is a pretty powerfull video Szczepan! I'm not a big fan of cage fighting to start with and watching this only confirms my belief that it is driven as much by the audience as by the fighters themselves. Many countries have banned the blood lust that used to be satisfied with dog fighting, so now we have human pit-bulls in their place, all completely legal and a HUGE money making machine.

The worst aspect I saw in the vid, was not the physical pain of the defeated, but in some the continued battering that they received well after they were completely incapable of offering any defence. Perhaps the referees operate to a different set of criteria than say those of boxing?

That said, the proponents of the 'art' (questionable use of the word) are skilled fighters and I respect that skill. But thats what it is in its pure form, just one man beating the crap out of another.

On the other hand, I really enjoy watching boxing, so I am a bit of a hypocrite, give me Sugar Ray Leonard any day, now there was an 'artist'.

regards,

Mark

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Old 10-01-2009, 02:14 PM   #5
dalen7
 
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Re: Dreaming about MMA?

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote: View Post
There were a lot of discussion about aikido and MMA. Did you dream about doing some competition?

Watch!

http://vimeo.com/6458558
there is a line... and I suppose for me it is sparring. If Im ever in a situation like this it will be because Im defending my life and the other guy is going out - point being that for me what is in the clip is a little to much outside of the realm of sports. - Boxing is bad enough on the brain, poor people with kids who may not have a 'working' father mentally or even physically afterwards.

Each person has to make their own choices, as I mentioned, mine is more for the cardio, flexibility, a sense of understanding possibilities, but I would rather defuse a fight by not starting it... may not sound macho... but everyone reaches their prime and quickly fades off... this type of fighting is not a long term solution that many think it may be for 'self-defense'.

What gets me are the people in my Aikido class who feel they are learning a self defense that could take on someone in the street. Suppose in a way they are, but its more if they can stay centered emotionally and not even get involved. Not saying we dont learn anything of value, but there are so many levels to this to be certain.

Peace

dAlen

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Old 10-01-2009, 08:16 PM   #6
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Re: Dreaming about MMA?

Brutal clip.
"The Way of the Warrior"...it is just that glorious, isn't it?
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Old 10-02-2009, 06:46 AM   #7
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Re: Dreaming about MMA?

I see something totally different in that video I guess. I see guys putting their heart and soul into something. I see power and loss, strength and weakness, life and death.

I also don't buy the whole brain injury thing from mma. MMA matches get stopped much sooner then boxing. You don't get knocked stupid and then get a standing 8 count to get knocked stupid again. Once you are beaten you are beaten.

Sure 10 years ago it was a lot more brutal, but now I would venture to say it is safer then football (american).

Besides, that video was of guys at the top of the game. When you are fighting for 10's of thousands or 100's of thousands the game changes. If you watch amateur fights, they get stopped sooner and they are even safer.

Look at minotauro nugera for example. The guys face has been destroyed from years of MMA, yet he doesn't seem to be suffering any brain injuries. He's fought the best in the world. I think again this is due to the fact you are not still getting hit after being knocked silly. That is where the damage happens.

- Don
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Old 10-02-2009, 09:06 PM   #8
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Re: Dreaming about MMA?

When I was watching this video I remembered some senior instructors claiming here on aikiweb they teach combat in their aikido dojo. I sincerely hope they prepare their students for the situations like in this video.

I also hope that it is very clear now for everybody that aikido was not created to teach fighting

Nagababa

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Old 10-03-2009, 02:31 AM   #9
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Re: Dreaming about MMA?

Quote:
Don Magee wrote: View Post
I see something totally different in that video I guess. I see guys putting their heart and soul into something. I see power and loss, strength and weakness, life and death.

I also don't buy the whole brain injury thing from mma. MMA matches get stopped much sooner then boxing. You don't get knocked stupid and then get a standing 8 count to get knocked stupid again. Once you are beaten you are beaten.

Sure 10 years ago it was a lot more brutal, but now I would venture to say it is safer then football (american).

Besides, that video was of guys at the top of the game. When you are fighting for 10's of thousands or 100's of thousands the game changes. If you watch amateur fights, they get stopped sooner and they are even safer.

Look at minotauro nugera for example. The guys face has been destroyed from years of MMA, yet he doesn't seem to be suffering any brain injuries. He's fought the best in the world. I think again this is due to the fact you are not still getting hit after being knocked silly. That is where the damage happens.
When I was younger, around my late teens, I took kickboxing lessons for a brief time in Pace Florida. I remember the guy teaching me was a semi-pro kickboxer [whatever that means in todays world I have no idea], but was in my weight class. I could take hits from him with no problem, didnt even bother me getting hit on the head - even got some uppercuts and jabs in there myself... though stopped with amazement when I did so then he got the upper hand again of course.

Point being is when I took up Thai Boxing not that long ago here in Hungary, the second time doing it I was fighting someone who was a good 100kg +, and Im 70kg. The difference was obvious. It was awkward as it was not a full blown out fight, he was trying to be sensitive as I was as well, but after a few jabs and hooks to his face [i was doing exclusively my attacks from a south paw position which seemed to give me an edge], anyway the guy came in and hit me squarely in my neck.

After being hit in my neck, and I have a long goose neck, my vision was taken from me half black and half bubbles of black and blurred vision. I went to squat on the floor. When the instructor came up the guy was sincerely concerned and was rubbing the back of my neck [it was hit on the side but I was covering it up] and the instructor asked what happened. I was in no mood to talk, and my Hungarian is not the smoothest, but I heard the guy say he hit me in the face and he proceeded to touch the side of my face, but whether this was cause he was afraid of what he did, I dont know... fact was not one inch of my face was touched... totally side of my neck.

All this to say, it occurred to me what did not occur to me years ago when I was doing my kickboxing in Florida or playing around with my friends, etc. There is a danger here. Im not sure how more accidents like this dont occur and after seeing that video Im convinced Ill never take this past sparring. Still trying to figure out how someone can miss the head.

I remember my first time with thai boxing when the guy slipped to miss my hook, my hook was actually none comital and I could have easily landed my punch on the back of his neck as he was pretty slow at slipping. Dont know, there seem to be to many loose ends for me to believe its safe past sparring. But that is just me.

Each person has their own experiences...

Peace

dAlen

p.s.
Just thinking about that kyokushin kupa they had here.
The two larger guys with the one whaling on the others chest... the guy was red as a beat. 5 people supposedly ended up in the hospital from what I was told... just seems that there is a point to where the damage doesnt justify anything if your not able to move forward. [again obviously people do move forward, but its a mixed bag as we see. Just got to be sure of what your getting into and know yourself to be sure.]

Last edited by dalen7 : 10-03-2009 at 02:33 AM.

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Old 10-03-2009, 06:52 AM   #10
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Re: Dreaming about MMA?

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote: View Post
When I was watching this video I remembered some senior instructors claiming here on aikiweb they teach combat in their aikido dojo. I sincerely hope they prepare their students for the situations like in this video.

I also hope that it is very clear now for everybody that aikido was not created to teach fighting
So it is much better to reframe and redefine what we do that at it's core is at best "refined violence" and call what we do "love", "compassion", "harmony" and ignore the roots of what things such as twisting arms, sword cuts, and jo staffs are really designed to do?

Much better to have people doing this stuff, not really thinking about what it is that they are really doing at the base, much better to have them practice for 1.5 hours, do some kokyu exercises at the end and go home feeling good about themselves that some how they have channelled the spirit of the samurai and feel the true nature of what it means to be a warrior with out all that "other unnecessary stuff.

There are a couple of things that bother me about this thread.

first, the video was used to stir up emotions, plan and simple. It is not different than what a lot of folks are doing in the "Healthcare debate". Watch a montage video of tough stuff to get folks in an emotional state...THEN lay out your case.

THen use words like "combat" which you don't really define, but now have an emotional static in the air that it gets associated to. Folks imagination run wild about what they envision it to mean and then the pot is well stirred.

How can anyone really now have a serious discussion around this issue.

Okay...that aside...

The video would be a good one for anyone considering to do MMA that it is a serious sport and you need the proper training. While I am proponent of MMA, I have probably steered more folks away from it than to it once they understand the level of commitment, the risk involved, and what you have to do to fight in it.

Also, though, the video does not account for all the checks and balances. One fighters train hard and there is a vetting process before they can ever even step into that ring ensuring that they have skill, knowledge of what they are getting into, and an equal chance to fight someone with equal skills. They have a "corner" that can throw in the towel as well.

Have you ever been cut in the face or head? I have, they bleed like crap and look gory as hell, but no real damage is done and fighters HATE to have the fight stopped because of this minor issue, but opponents of the sport LOVE to show video footage supporting the violence cause head cuts make it seem so barbaric!

Anyway, back to the subject...

It all is about ethics and morality and I really don't like it when AIkidoka somehow take a moral high ground on fighting or martial studies over MMA...it is plain and simply hypocrisy and demonstrates the exact level of understanding of what it is that we are doing in budo.

Combat is ugly and it is nothing like in this video, although it requires the same level of comittment and heart and commitment to face adversity and not quit.

Ummmm, that is what we are supposed to be teaching in the dojo I believe to..that is Peace and Harmony are tough work...your gonna get "hit", spit on, cursed at, put down throughout your life.

Indomindable spirit.

That is what I see in the videos, in a very real, and authentic way. These guys have learned that lesson more most run of the mill "flower power" aikido student that will face "real adversity" some day either physcially, emotionally, mentally, or spiritually and then come on the web and profess that "aikido doesn't work" cause he/she was let down be the "feel good" crowd.

Side note. I was talking to one of my Army Chaplains the other day about our first Buddhist chaplain in the Army. My Chaplain is a Christian chaplain. He told me that alot of Chaplains "down range" are jumping ship on their faith these days. He figures it is because they have not had any "real chaplain" experiences...cause alot of them have been set up for failure by their ordination organizations/schools. When they get down ranges and deal with reality of what they face there...their faith gets shaken since it never really prepared them for what they were going to deal with in reality.

Alot of wisdom to be had by looking at this example if you ask me.

Combat.

Well we need to define what that is first. I equate it to reality at it's pure and simplist form. Reality.

Whatever we do, we need to give our students the understanding of how what we do relates back to the real world and make sure they have the skills necessary to deal with the world in a real and authentic way...or at best...understand the limitations of it.

It does not mean we need to teach them 50 deadly techniques, how to master the sucker punch, how to take someone out from behind with a garotte, or watch video footage every class of what combat really is.

No, we don't need to do that...but we do owe them honesty..plain and simple.

So with that in mind, yeah..we need to teach them "combat".

Not glorify it, but approach it with seriousness and a certain level of emotional detachment.

Your video does not do this, and drives the problem deeper into the ground since it forces an emotional reaction designed to allow folks to take the moral high ground of what they do as some how being different and distinct...therefore superior and more evolved than others.

Wrong, wrong, wrong!

(gotta use less words in the future..sorry)

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Old 10-03-2009, 08:16 AM   #11
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Re: Dreaming about MMA?

Why, it's Reefer Madness!
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Old 10-03-2009, 10:59 AM   #12
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Re: Dreaming about MMA?

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote: View Post
When I was watching this video I remembered some senior instructors claiming here on aikiweb they teach combat in their aikido dojo. I sincerely hope they prepare their students for the situations like in this video.
With all due respect SJ....

LOL!!! You Know....They used to show us films in high school about car accidents...A reality of driving a car is sometimes you get into accidents and If you are foolish... drink... or distracted... They could be really bad LOL...The reality of conflict is violence in some cases...and the same rules apply.

If one is a Aikido instructor... Then you are a fool and lying to your students if you don't prepare them for conflict in every context especially physical ones...and I don't remember any "Senior Instructor" saying they "teach combat"... Only that if you get into a physical confrontation You should be able to use what you learned in AIKIDO to prevail and hopefully restore harmony.

Quote:
I also hope that it is very clear now for everybody that Aikido was not created to teach fighting
No it was created as way to RESOLVE "fighting" and if you can't do this on "EVERY LEVEL" of personal conflict... Then your Aikido practice has failed you.

That distinction is obvious to some of us.

Don McGee is spot on in his post by the way. I guess perhaps because some of us came to Aikido after years of other forms of Martial Practice/fighting we understand this.

I personally have no quibble with Aiki Bunnies but I hear why too many stories of Aikidoka getting their practice handed to them because they don't know how to protect themselves.

No worries gentle reader there are plenty of Aikido instructors out there who teach Aikido as a Martial Art and believe it to be one.

What makes Aikido special to me is that it has something else too A way as Shoji Nishio expressed it to turn swords into plowshares... and use your practice... to cultivate peace and harmony within yourself and others.

William Hazen

Last edited by Aikibu : 10-03-2009 at 11:04 AM.
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Old 12-25-2009, 09:47 PM   #13
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Re: Dreaming about MMA?

I was dreaming of mma.
found `dis;
: Greatest MMA Photos 2009
Cheers!
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Old 12-25-2009, 11:16 PM   #14
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Re: Dreaming about MMA?

Quote:
Josh Phillipson wrote: View Post
I was dreaming of mma.
found `dis;
: Greatest MMA Photos 2009
Cheers!
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Old 12-26-2009, 12:36 PM   #15
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Re: Dreaming about MMA?

Funny, I've fought, I've been hurt, nothing too bad, but it wasn't fun. I've seen plenty of my friends hurt fairly badly, but the physical pain isn't the bad part of sport fighting.

The bad part is the stress before the fight. Depending on the person/situation it can also be the stress of losing the fight. And those things are present in all sporting events. Just because some 15 year old gymnast isn't made to look ugly after her event, doesn't mean she's not going through the hard part of the competition.

It's funny that people can feel so bad simply watching someone else do something. So bad that they don't want them to do it. The fighters don't care about the blood and pain, that's not the problem. The mental factors are the issue. Those mental factors would likely be even worse if they weren't allowed to compete at all. There are no victims in this sort of thing, and that is the beautiful part about it.

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Old 12-27-2009, 10:14 AM   #16
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Re: Dreaming about MMA?

Good perspective Chris.

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Old 12-27-2009, 10:32 AM   #17
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Re: Dreaming about MMA?

Quote:
William Hazen wrote: View Post
No it was created as way to RESOLVE "fighting" and if you can't do this on "EVERY LEVEL" of personal conflict... Then your Aikido practice has failed you.

That distinction is obvious to some of us.

Don McGee is spot on in his post by the way. I guess perhaps because some of us came to Aikido after years of other forms of Martial Practice/fighting we understand this.

I personally have no quibble with Aiki Bunnies but I hear why too many stories of Aikidoka getting their practice handed to them because they don't know how to protect themselves.

No worries gentle reader there are plenty of Aikido instructors out there who teach Aikido as a Martial Art and believe it to be one.

What makes Aikido special to me is that it has something else too A way as Shoji Nishio expressed it to turn swords into plowshares... and use your practice... to cultivate peace and harmony within yourself and others.

William Hazen
well said!
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Old 01-03-2010, 06:42 AM   #18
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Re: Dreaming about MMA?

<unlurk>

MMA?! they think they can buy Martial Arts so they can feed their Lust for brutality.

I'd stay 6 kilometers away from my target so i wont feel, see & smell a person straggling their life out of them.

I'd rather stay and fend my farm and grow bitter herbs for my red meat and train & teach the gentle Art of Aikido and live happily ever-rafter and die smiling helping the less fortunate.

peace!
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Old 01-12-2010, 09:59 AM   #19
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Re: Dreaming about MMA?

Two things:

(1) Has anyone here ever read any of Keith Vargo's columns for Black Belt magazine? I have a book of his called Philosophy of Fighting, and he does a pretty good job of explaining how MMA fits into the martial arts and how MMA can lead someone along the same peaceful path of more traditional martial arts. I'm still not interested in MMA in the slightest, but he is very convincing.

(2)
Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote: View Post
When I was watching this video I remembered some senior instructors claiming here on aikiweb they teach combat in their aikido dojo. I sincerely hope they prepare their students for the situations like in this video.

I also hope that it is very clear now for everybody that aikido was not created to teach fighting
I think this take fails to distinguish between self-defense and fighting. Being stuck in a cage with a highly trained martial artist who is determined to tear one apart is not a particularly realistic situation, and certainly not a situation an aikidoist (or any martial artist) needs to train for unless he is planning to go into MMA. When instructors claim they are teaching "combat aikido", they are talking about preparing for real self-defense situations, and an MMA fight doesn't fit that bill.

I have plenty of respect for MMA athletes and fans, but far too many people are under the mistaken impression that MMA fights represent an approximation of realistic self-defense situations, and it just isn't so. Many MMA fighters (the aforementioned Keith Vargo among them) will tell you this.

Last edited by OwlMatt : 01-12-2010 at 10:05 AM.
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Old 01-12-2010, 09:40 PM   #20
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Re: Dreaming about MMA?

Absolutely true concerning Self Defense...most of us surpassed our ability to meet this goal a long time ago and I have always contended that empty handed arts like aikido or even MMA to be very inefficient delivery mechanisms to learn SD.

However, we study this stuff for other reasons that may vary from person to person.

For me, as a Combat Arms Army Officer, it is a part of my job, so I do care a fair amount past the Ability to defend myself and want to be somewhat effective offensively for sure.

That said, I do get tired of the MMA does not approximate reality or is not realistic arguments, as MMA does offer us alot. Alot more than most TMAs do for "combative" situations. Combat Sports vs AIkido....

Why can't you do both? Who said you can't be proficient along the whole spectrum? Why does it have to be "good at sport, but not at reality". Or "good in reality, but not sport?"

I do both with no issues. I can walk into a Judo tournament and fight with their rules. Go to a BJJ tournament and do that. Go to My Aikido Dojo....teach combatives...go to a MMA event...and have no issues at all understanding where I am at that point in time.

Why does there have to be a distinction or separation?

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Old 01-13-2010, 10:00 AM   #21
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Re: Dreaming about MMA?

You can do both, of course. And of course MMA has a lot to offer us. I just think that martial artists (especially young ones) need to understand the difference between fighting and self-defense. MMA will teach one how to fight, and one can learn to use those fighting skills in a self-defense situation, but that second step is very crucial and very real.

Any contact martial art (MMA included) can be used for self-defense, but no martial art is self-defense right out of the box. The journey from mastering a martial art to being able to effectively defend oneself may be longer for some martial arts than others, but everyone has to make it.

I am well aware that being able to take a trained multi-martial artist down in a ring and keep him there while hitting him requires great skill and years of training. We ought to respect that skill and that training, but posts like Szczepan's make me worry that we are forgetting the distinction between learning to fight and learning to defend oneself, and that distinction is essential to aikido.
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Old 01-13-2010, 11:06 AM   #22
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Re: Dreaming about MMA?

Quote:
Matthew Story wrote: View Post
You can do both, of course. And of course MMA has a lot to offer us. I just think that martial artists (especially young ones) need to understand the difference between fighting and self-defense. MMA will teach one how to fight, and one can learn to use those fighting skills in a self-defense situation, but that second step is very crucial and very real.

Any contact martial art (MMA included) can be used for self-defense, but no martial art is self-defense right out of the box. The journey from mastering a martial art to being able to effectively defend oneself may be longer for some martial arts than others, but everyone has to make it.

I am well aware that being able to take a trained multi-martial artist down in a ring and keep him there while hitting him requires great skill and years of training. We ought to respect that skill and that training, but posts like Szczepan's make me worry that we are forgetting the distinction between learning to fight and learning to defend oneself, and that distinction is essential to aikido.
With all due respect I feel there is no distinction between the two. You cannot defend yourself without learning how to fight (even on the most rudimentary level be it pulling a trigger or throwing a punch)... You cannot call Aikido a Martial Art without Martial Technique...

Aikido without "fighting techniques" is not a Martial Art...

The Aikido/Martial Art takes a long time to learn Meme can an excuse as to why Aikido does not work or a reason to make Aikido more effective as a Budo...

I have practiced all three of the Gendai Arts...Karate...Judo..and Aikido... In every case I took away something I could use to defend myself with out of that very first class...I was not very good at it mind you LOL... but it worked...But then again we don't teach folks that grabbing ones wrist is an "Aikido" technique but just a method of training and they need to learn how to punch, kick, and use elbow strikes.. Plus Tsuki and cutting...They MUST know this to progress past 5th Kyu...We also encourage students to further refine their Atemi by exploring other Martial Systems (including Boxing and MMA).

I think some folks put the cart before the horse with Aikido and I am not sure anyone is to "blame" for it... My guess is it just happened over the years as Aikido's first and second generation of students passed on... However I have been taught that Aikido is a Martial Art that expresses a Specific Philosophy ( Which with the way O'Sensei said things... is still a subject for discussion)... Not...A Philosophy that expresses itself through a Martial Art.
Indeed Aikido's Philosophy is not unique either...It's Martial Approach may be a bit different by we have no monopoly on "The Peaceful Way of the Warrior."

So what does Aikido have to offer in the way of fighting and self defense???

Everything...If you let it.

William Hazen

"Sincere Heart through Austere Practice" Shoji Nishio Shihan.
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Old 01-13-2010, 11:15 AM   #23
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Re: Dreaming about MMA?

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William Hazen wrote: View Post
With all due respect I feel there is no distinction between the two. You cannot defend yourself without learning how to fight (even on the most rudimentary level be it pulling a trigger or throwing a punch)... You cannot call Aikido a Martial Art without Martial Technique...

Aikido without "fighting techniques" is not a Martial Art...

The Aikido/Martial Art takes a long time to learn Meme can an excuse as to why Aikido does not work or a reason to make Aikido more effective as a Budo...

I have practiced all three of the Gendai Arts...Karate...Judo..and Aikido... In every case I took away something I could use to defend myself with out of that very first class...I was not very good at it mind you LOL... but it worked...But then again we don't teach folks that grabbing ones wrist is an "Aikido" technique but just a method of training and they need to learn how to punch, kick, and use elbow strikes.. Plus Tsuki and cutting...They MUST know this to progress past 5th Kyu...We also encourage students to further refine their Atemi by exploring other Martial Systems (including Boxing and MMA).

I think some folks put the cart before the horse with Aikido and I am not sure anyone is to "blame" for it... My guess is it just happened over the years as Aikido's first and second generation of students passed on... However I have been taught that Aikido is a Martial Art that expresses a Specific Philosophy ( Which with the way O'Sensei said things... is still a subject for discussion)... Not...A Philosophy that expresses itself through a Martial Art.
Indeed Aikido's Philosophy is not unique either...It's Martial Approach may be a bit different by we have no monopoly on "The Peaceful Way of the Warrior."

So what does Aikido have to offer in the way of fighting and self defense???

Everything...If you let it.

William Hazen

"Sincere Heart through Austere Practice" Shoji Nishio Shihan.
I don't disagree with any of this. Of course there is no physical self-defense without fighting skills. But there are often fighting skills without self-defense. The world is full of competent black belts who would have no idea what to do in a real self-defense situation. No few of these are supplied to the world by aikido. But some of them are MMAers, too.
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Old 01-13-2010, 12:35 PM   #24
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Re: Dreaming about MMA?

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Matthew Story wrote: View Post
I don't disagree with any of this. Of course there is no physical self-defense without fighting skills. But there are often fighting skills without self-defense. The world is full of competent black belts who would have no idea what to do in a real self-defense situation. No few of these are supplied to the world by aikido. But some of them are MMAers, too.
Stories also abound of LE folks and Perps emptying their handguns at each other at almost point blank range and not hitting anything...

Competence has nothing to do with luck.

And few regular folks handle the adrenaline dump that comes with extreme danger very well regardless of competence...

Thats why on "The Street" surprise attacks work so well... The Attacker knows what's coming... The Defender usually freezes..and the attack is over... because there's no chance to react. How the Martial Arts Help with this is to Cultivate Martial Awareness...If you learn how to spot the signs of trouble before they escalate you have a better chance of defending your self and in Aikido's case defending your possible attacker by disengaging/deescalating the situation.

Aikido is definitely NOT anywhere near MMA but if practiced as a Martial Art it can produce a Martial Result aka you can prevail in a physical confrontation...

By doing so you can take as much time as you need to ponder the Founders Philosophy.
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Old 01-13-2010, 12:54 PM   #25
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Re: Dreaming about MMA?

Quote:
William Hazen wrote: View Post
Stories also abound of LE folks and Perps emptying their handguns at each other at almost point blank range and not hitting anything...

Competence has nothing to do with luck.

And few regular folks handle the adrenaline dump that comes with extreme danger very well regardless of competence...

Aikido is definitely NOT anywhere near MMA but if practiced as a Martial Art it can produce a Martial Result aka you can prevail in a physical confrontation...

By doing so you can take as much time as you need to ponder the Founders Philosophy.
There IS a profound physical reason not to compete in training -- and it has to do with the adrenal-dominated response of the competitve fight or flight mode and a copmpeting and more poweful hormonal response. Oxytocin. Oxytocin is the "love hormone , but much much more. It is the "protective instinct" hormone and has powerful effects on physical endurance and demonstrable structural strengthening. Adrenaline does NOT provide these. Oxytocin's pathways both dominate and modulate the adrenal response, so its advantages are not lost -- but it is sublimated and reined by the dominant oxytocin.

But this hormone acts only in the context of self-sacrificing protection of others whom we love --- and not in conditions where personal survival or triumph is the motivating factor. Adrenaline is a linear response and runs out; Oxytocin, is a psotivie feedback system the more that is in your system the more that is produced. As long as the conditions provoking it do not lapse you do not run out before you run out of all convertible energy in the body. This is one reason why Medal of Honor winners really become physically different, both more capable of possible survival and of enduring almost unimaginable damage in accomplishing their objective before their deaths -- because they are neither living nor dying for themselves anymore -- and this actually makes their bodies more powerful and harder to destroy.

If one views aikido training as a way to create an environment where that protective response to threat becomes dominant and the enemy is seen as someone to protect (from himself), rather than a threat to be eliminated -- an entirely different manner of biochemical and structural responses exists, and which MMA -- as an expressly competitive art (however effective) -- CANNOT promote nor train to use...

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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