Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Techniques

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-27-2002, 11:15 AM   #51
paw
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 768
Offline
Jermaine,

Quote:
No such thing as pointless techniques...Every technique that you would use has some sort of purpose to it....whether it be learning how to lead, or off balance your attacker, or proper "dead angle" positioning...etc.
Let me play devil's advocate for a second. I agree that every technique has some sort of purpose to it, but what you're describing are elements that are present in any technique. So why learn "all" techniques when "any" will do?

Curious,

Paul
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2002, 12:29 PM   #52
bujin
Location: Berlin
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 18
Offline
Any technique and any attack?
Shiho nage-mae geri, for instance, as well?

.

What is the point of training martial arts?
For me the most important is that such a practice would help you in a real situation.
Will aikido manage that challenge?
Mine won´t.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2002, 01:10 AM   #53
mike lee
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 646
Offline
training and fighting

The few times that I have gotten into and actual scrape on the street, I immediately responded with a judo hip throw that I learned in 1965. It was one of the first martial arts techniques I ever learned. It's simple and effective. It was just a response -- I did it without even thinking.

I've also studied karate, tai chi chuan, and aikido since 1965. I think that the wide range of techniques that we learn in practice help us to become more solid and strong in many ways. But on the street, when push comes to shove, a few basic, proven techniques are usually sufficient.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2002, 04:30 PM   #54
Kevin Leavitt
 
Kevin Leavitt's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Location: Stuttgart, Baden Wurttemberg
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,368
Germany
Offline
all "techniques" are useless in the wrong context. In the right context all "techniques" are useful.

Did you have a particular situation "what if" senario in mind?"

Suwariwaza techniques work if you are in suwariwaza. Albeit in our times you don't find yourself in it as much as you might in Japan 100 years ago.

  Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2002, 06:51 PM   #55
Wiley_Allard
Dojo: Sixels Northwoods martail arts (pankration)
Location: wisconsin
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 9
Offline
if you find a movement useless then your either very limted in terms of imagination or purpose. Even in my forms i find uses for each this is to teadch me proper form in movement how to practice alone. I mean a rising guard for example can be used to lead into an upward oxblow from ther to a spear hand *idealy to the thorat* and to really mix it up a hip shot *step up and bump them back.

now it funny how that works move reguard as useful that really a movment into a closed stance something begainer see as usless and clumsy. Each move has a reason some times it is as they say in kung fu simply flower, but even a flower can have thorns! It can misdirect an oppent from the second intended attack.

To call any movement usless is to prove yourself a closed minded person.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2002, 06:56 PM   #56
Wiley_Allard
Dojo: Sixels Northwoods martail arts (pankration)
Location: wisconsin
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 9
Offline
ps keep in mind that the more combinations and skills a fighter has the more situations youll be able to deal and thus increasing ones possiblities in a fight any will do in a fight but FIGHTING IS NOT the soul point of the arts! Remember most that employed the martal arts did so in service to their country as risk to their own lives.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2002, 06:27 PM   #57
Vic_Bang
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1
Offline
Well, I'm a complete begginer in aikido and haven't practice another martial art before. Said that, my teacher uses to say that to make aikido you have to follow three rules: tai sabaki, tai sabaki and tai sabaki.

Under that perspective, seems to me that the correct aplication of a technique is not about making the oponent bite the dust at the first (maybe second) oportunity but to keep yourself out of danger...

In my case, newby as I am, that means running like hell
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2002, 09:22 AM   #58
Jermaine Alley
Dojo: Aikido Of Richmond
Location: Richmond, VA
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 63
Offline
Practical Techniques

Every technique does not work all of the time on every person. All of the techniques are practical in some situation at some time.

But knowing that, I think that kaiten nage is one of those techniques that I still don't feel comfortable with. I got to keep working on it.....

jermaine
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2002, 09:31 AM   #59
Jermaine Alley
Dojo: Aikido Of Richmond
Location: Richmond, VA
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 63
Offline
Paul Wyatt,

"why learn all techniques when any will do?".

Good question.. Learning as many techniques will enable you to be more flexible in your defenses. I like to think of it as having whatever I need to get through the situation. Aikido, like many other martial arts, is about developing a rolodex...in my humble opinion. a rolodex of techniques to deal with any of lifes' problems, issues, and situations..in and off of the mat.

Does that make any sense.

I have to sometimes use different techniques in an offensive kind of way. Being a cop, i sometimes have to "lay hands" on people in order to place them in custody. Some have come willingly, and others have went with a bit of an atemi, OC (mace), baton etc. I an trying to incorporate my training to fit as many situations as I can. No two, situations come with the same dynamics....

hit me back..

jermaine
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2002, 10:12 AM   #60
DaveO
Dojo: Great Wave Aikido
Location: Alberta, Canada
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 543
Canada
Offline
Re: Practical Techniques

Quote:
Jermaine Alley wrote:
....

But knowing that, I think that kaiten nage is one of those techniques that I still don't feel comfortable with. I got to keep working on it.....

jermaine
Hello, all!

OOOooo, Jermaine, you just mentioned my fave - kaiten nage. I LOVE that technique! The first time I was introduced to it was when learning Taigi#1, and to be honest, I thought it would be useless in real life. But then, someone faked a right haymaker at me during randori. Bad move. (hee hee!) I brushed his wrist with my left fingertips, stepped through and rolled him into the next uke without thinking. Very fast, completely unexpected.

HOOKED!!!

I've been playing with it since, getting into kaiten nage from a variety of attacks and entries; varying the finish. We were looking at the two-hand grab to the chest again today and I tried something new - as my Sensei came in on the attack, I grabbed her right hand, dropped under the left, slid into the kaiten nage then instead of driving forward and down, inducing the roll, I tenkanned with my right hand on her left shoulder, driving her down into a pin. I finished with 3-palms-up, which came naturally for that position.

Wild!

Anyway, what I'm getting at in this post is I'm starting to learn that techniques we think of as useless in real life may be far more effective than we think; I'd say trust the fact that those who developed these techniques did so for a good reason.

Thanx, all!

Dave

Last edited by DaveO : 09-29-2002 at 10:15 AM.

Answers are only easy when they're incomplete.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2002, 07:46 PM   #61
Kevin Leavitt
 
Kevin Leavitt's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Location: Stuttgart, Baden Wurttemberg
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,368
Germany
Offline
Yea, Kaiten Nage is one of my favorite techniques too. Infact I use it when "sparring" with other stylist quite a bit. Seems like everytime I do something, it ends up in kaiten nage!

If it fails, you got a real nice punch or headlock to work with! great for taking uke down BJJ style!

  Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2002, 07:58 AM   #62
Bruce Baker
Dojo: LBI Aikikai/LBI ,NJ
Location: Barnegaat, NJ
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 893
Offline
I know that I have proposed many baited questions, and saught many different answers, to which there has either been disagreement, or astonishment ... but useless techniques remind me of learning kata without learning what it is for, or how it is used ... absolutely useless.

Kind of like the practice sessions with "What if you were attacked like this" useless scenario's that never seems to happen to you.

Well, what if you did discover the point of the technique, or at leaast a reason to use it?

Kind of like the statement of "Can I help you and be helpful, or can I be less help to you and be Helpless?"

Technique, or is it the Brain Fog that has covered your logic to see the usefulness of what you do? Useless is that tool you bought on television and it never comes out of the drawer after you use it one time.

Thanks Don Modesto for your contribution to the this thread. Having reread the thread, it did indeed change the course of debate from uselessness, to usefulness ... as I will now get off my chair, turn off my computer, and go do something of usefulness right now.

See ya later.

Last edited by Bruce Baker : 09-30-2002 at 08:02 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2002, 10:00 AM   #63
aikigreg
Dojo: Mizu Aikido
Location: Ft. Worth Texas
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 94
Offline
I just can't believe anyone would say hanmi handachi techniques are useless - that astounds me. I've gotten knocked down in randori and not had time to casually get up. A quick seated throw however gives me the time I need. *LOVE* the hanmi handachi!
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2002, 09:38 AM   #64
eugene_lo
Dojo: Tidewater Aikikai
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 12
Offline
I think that it is a good idea to reminds ourselves of what are practical techniques and what are traditional techniques. All have their uses. None are useless. Most are derived from sword techniques. Some have evolved to a point where this is unrecogzizable, some you can still plainly see the origins. Some have evolved into very practical techniques for "today's mugger" vs. an enemy samurai.

I think what is pointless is to practice aikido with the mindset that you are only trying to perfect and practice how well you can defend yourself in a fight. With this belief, then you are forgetting or ignoring the spiritual and character building aspect.

Being technically effective in aikido is great, and to those unfortunate enough to be placed in a situation where you have to test it, useful. But, that is not what aikido is about.

Technique is the vehicle used to attain improvement in the spiritual aspect, and so that's why we start training with technique and form first rather than strictly lecture and meditation. But why concentrate on just how to use aikido in a fight?

And besides, kokyu is used in all techniques. So how can the practice of kokyu be useless, as in kokyu-nage?

Good training to you.
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Cognard Shihan 8th Dan - Cognard Andre Shihan 8th Dan (Hanshi, DNBK) in VA, CA, AZ (June 2014)



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Diato Ryu Aikijujutsu's relation to Aikido Kelly Allen General 19 11-23-2007 03:24 PM
Gokyo-why? Steve Morabito Techniques 65 11-26-2006 05:18 PM
aikido and competition ewodaj General 129 08-10-2006 10:43 AM
Definition of "Dan"? H. Trinh Language 27 02-10-2006 02:54 PM
Randori kocakb General 26 06-20-2004 08:51 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:27 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
loss-hatred