Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Non-Aikido Martial Traditions

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-28-2009, 02:14 PM   #101
bob_stra
Location: Australia
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 641
Australia
Offline
Re: Some similarities in Internal Body Skills between Chinese and Japanese arts

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
Liu Chengde video:
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTAzMTk4ODMy.html

He uses nikkyo, kote gaeshi, reverse kote gaeshi, kokyu throws, etc. It just highlights a Chinese master using internal body skills in a familiar environment.

Same lineage as Li Chugong.

Move vids from Li Chugong at this thread:
http://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5927
Very nice - thank you. Here's one in return

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAzxqzqzIsY

Starts off a little slow, but OTOH it does show how the basic movements are used to power various strategies
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2009, 12:04 AM   #102
thisisnotreal
 
thisisnotreal's Avatar
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 693
Offline
Re: Some similarities in Internal Body Skills between Chinese and Japanese arts

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
can't push. our muscle is either in contraction (pull) state or non-contraction. a push to your chest is the same as a pull to your back. essentially, our body is a large and complex pulley system. adding to the complication, some muscles are fast twitch and some, slow, i.e. they don't contract at the same speed.
-snip-
And yet *we can push*.
And is there is something special in *pushing* that Ueshiba taught Tenryu that way.
q) Why is that?
q2) How and in what way is pushing special?

some thoughts i had (what do you think):
"putting your center behind your push"
"putting you intent behind your push"
"putting the groundpath through the push"
"using the force of your body's gravity through the push"
?
-you can 'pull' parts of your body so strongly that they can line up and push hard (pinnacling at fa-jin?) or tear yourself apart if you are not doing it right (i.e. misaligned, for instance)
-you can clearly be perceived as a push or a pull; but your muscles always pull, as you say. that is cool. still not done thinking thru that. (was thinking 'You build a push out of your muscle pulls' , or something like that)

what do you think? I agree, by the way, that a muscle cannot push, but you can

the rest of your post was great too. been thinking about that stuffs.

take it easy
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 08:10 AM   #103
phitruong
Dojo: Charlotte Aikikai Agatsu Dojo
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,811
United_States
Offline
Re: Some similarities in Internal Body Skills between Chinese and Japanese arts

Quote:
Josh Phillipson wrote: View Post
-you can clearly be perceived as a push or a pull; but your muscles always pull, as you say. that is cool. still not done thinking thru that. (was thinking 'You build a push out of your muscle pulls' , or something like that)
an example, take a balloon and grip one side of it. that is in essence a pull or contraction on one side. if you notice, the other side expand out which, in a way, a push. so in effect, you use a pull to create a push. now look at the human body, if you contract your entire backside, wouldn't that create a similar push to the front? and vice versa? so, the question is how do you train your body to be a balloon? this is one variable of the equation.

another variable of the equation (the most important one), what-if the one-point from Tohei which is the hara/dantien isn't statics but dynamics, i.e. mobile and is the actuator of all these pull (indirect push) actions? what-if Tohei only understood a small aspect of the one-point?
*put on asbestos underwear, going to be hot here soon*
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 09:01 AM   #104
MM
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,996
United_States
Offline
Re: Some similarities in Internal Body Skills between Chinese and Japanese arts

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
what-if Tohei only understood a small aspect of the one-point?
*put on asbestos underwear, going to be hot here soon*
Off topic, but it's a moot point. Just as Ueshiba gave the nod to Tomiki, Shioda, etc, he also gave the nod to Tohei. It's aikido.

IMO, just as Ueshiba looked at his peers and saw that they were making the way of aiki their own personal way, so, too, did Ueshiba look at his students. I think Ueshiba understood that aiki requires a personal approach in which to display those skills.

Historically, Tohei went elsewhere to start learning these skills and so far, that seems to have been okay with Ueshiba. Shioda went to the Kodokai and so far, that seems to have been okay with Ueshiba.

If you're studying a system designed by Tohei and you're using aiki, it's aikido. If you're studying a system designed by Shioda and you're using aiki, it's aikido. Etc, etc, etc.

What Tohei's understanding about One Point, etc really doesn't matter to me. It would if I were learning from Tohei, but I'm not. If you started training in that system and started learning aiki and you take it as far as you can go ... well, hopefully, you'll surpass your teacher. Isn't that the plan anyway? If you have to get outside help, well, that wasn't exactly frowned upon by the founder either, as far as I can tell.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 04:53 PM   #105
Erick Mead
 
Erick Mead's Avatar
Dojo: Big Green Drum (W. Florida Aikikai)
Location: West Florida
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,502
United_States
Offline
Re: Some similarities in Internal Body Skills between Chinese and Japanese arts

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
now look at the human body, if you contract your entire backside, wouldn't that create a similar push to the front? and vice versa? so, the question is how do you train your body to be a balloon? this is one variable of the equation.
This "push " has a proper name -- and calling things by their right name is always helpful.

Start at page 20
Note the relative contraction of the rear face of the spine and pay particular attention to the difference it makes in the direction of the red arrows on p. 22.

A great site to explore BTW -- for excellent illustrations.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"Hidden in Plain Sight" Book Discussion Ellis Amdur Supplies 80 12-08-2011 04:07 PM
Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 14 Peter Goldsbury Columns 38 08-01-2009 12:19 AM
Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 12 Peter Goldsbury Columns 32 05-16-2009 07:05 PM
Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 10 Peter Goldsbury Columns 200 02-04-2009 07:45 AM
Aikido as External Art -or- Where's the Chewy Center? ChrisMoses Training 130 03-17-2007 04:21 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:21 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate