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Old 10-27-2009, 12:06 PM   #51
Keith Larman
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Re: Obesity

The six rules for eating...

http://www.michaelpollan.com/article.php?id=77

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Old 10-27-2009, 12:11 PM   #52
ninjaqutie
 
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Re: Obesity

To the original poster, I don't think aikido could be lumped into an activity that does not burn calories. I know that our workouts can be pretty intense and my husband has lost over 20 pounds since he started classes. If you were to come in and look around our dojo, I don't think you would see too many people who would be considered obese. Then again, a lot of people in our dojo tend to be pretty active. We have mountain bikers, hikers, climbers, actors, people who train 4 or more days a week at 2 or 3 hours a day, etc. Not to mention it seems that a healthy diet seems important to a lot of us at the dojo. Then again, it seems that a lot of people in Oregon that I have met have this same ideology towards being healthy.

Someone else mentioned obese v. fitness. I have to completely agree. A person can be thin and not be in good physical shape. If you were to put some skinny person who didn't exercise up against someone who is average or slightly overweight who exercised on a daily basis, my bet would be that the "bigger" person would win. It is a common misconception that athletes are thin. This isn't always true. Heck, take a look at WTA. There are several bigger girls who play tennis and not all of that weight is muscle. You can bet they are training every day and that they are in shape (by shape I mean fitness). It happens to me all the time. When I complain that I need to get back in shape people always tell me "You don't need to lose weight!" Losing weight and getting in shape are two completely different things (though they can go hand in hand). I guess another thing women could relate to is the whole cellulite thing. People assume that if a girl is thin she doesn't have any and that it is a problem overweight women have. That isn't really true. Any ladies who read the tabloids knows that skinny people (Paris for instance) has it. Heck, most women have it!

When it comes down to it, some people have better metabolisms then others. Some people have medical conditions that prevent their body from metabolizing food properly. Even when they are eating healthy and getting exercis, they just aren't able to get to where they would like/ should be. Also, though BMI can be a great tool, it shouldn't be treated as gospel. Someone could be in their weight range, but still have more fat on their body then is healthy (since fat doesn't weigh as much) and like a previous poster said, someone could be "overweight" because they have a higher muscle mass.

Overweight/obesity also depends on who you talk to. If you sent me to a modeling agency, I would probably be told "You are overweight. You need to lose 15 pounds." (so I could fit into the sample size clothes- which still wouldn't fit my hips). That would then mean less jobs for me… or I could enter the “dreaded” plus size mode industry. Yes, models that don't fit sample size clothing (often size 4 or smaller, though they can be let out to accommodate a size 5 sometimes) are often considered plus size. Somehow, I don’t think most of us would call those models overweight, yet by modeling standards, they are.

Yes, maintaining a proper weight, eating healthy and getting exercise are all important aspects of living a healthy lifestyle, but I don’t think they are things we should all get too hung up about. Each person has to figure out what their healthy body is and do what is needed to keep it that way. Balance and moderation is key; too much of a good thing can also be bad. Aikido is an art that accepts everyone who is willing to leave everything at the door, come in as equals and train. Spend less time worrying about the size of the person’s waist you are working with and more on learning. My guess is that you would get more out of the training session. :O)

Last edited by ninjaqutie : 10-27-2009 at 12:13 PM.

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Old 10-27-2009, 01:15 PM   #53
DonMagee
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Re: Obesity

Quote:
William Hazen wrote: View Post
Good Question...Here's another one... Can most Heroin Crack or Nicotine Addicts quit on their own without getting help?

For some it's the same with sugar...

Like I said before food is not just about nutrition... If it was... Obesity would be far less of an issue...

Here's a hint...The next time you walk in to a Grocery Store look around carefully...Where is the most nutritious food located? What about the junk food?

William Hazen
I don't feel sorry for crack addicts. I already stated above that I discriminate against smokers. No one is forcing them to start, no one is forcing them to stop. But none of us should be paying for the burden they pose. I'm so sick of catering to people simply because they don't want to fix what is wrong with them. I'm also sick of this "it's a sickness" bullcrap. I know alcoholics, they drink because people allow it to be ok for them to drink. There is a reason people don't tend to seek help until they hit rock
bottom.

I'm all for helping people who want to change. I'll walk next to a friend who is honestly trying to lose weight, I'll encourage him to continue, I'll even hound him to keep his schedule. I would never stop anyone from bettering themselves. This is not about that.

This is about the idea that we should accept this and in fact support it. That they have a right to put this burden on us. That everyone should pay more or be inconvenienced because of the gluttony of a few others. And that is all it is, gluttony and lack of self control. I walk by a hundred candybars a day (I'm a daily shopper). I freaking love chocolate. I want to buy everyone one of them. I have to consciously NOT look just to make it though the line. I get really angry at my wife if she asks if we can buy one because I know it is a thin line for me. If you buy me a case of pepsi I'll drink it dry in a few days. I had to make a choice. Live healthy and not be diabetic, or say screw it, keep gaining weight, keep living on a diet of suger, keep having increasingly more health issues, and be a burden on those who I encounter on my day to day life.

I'm not superman. I have a bit of a belly. I'm 5'10" 175 pounds. I can grab a handful of belly. Depending on my ability to keep working out and to control my eating I can vary from 160 to 175, yet that is a far cry from the 200+ I was before I decided to stop.

It's not a illness, it's being lazy, a lack of willpower. No one can fix these people. They simply have to decide to fix themselves, and then have the desire to go though with it. This means the consequences for not doing it have to be greater then just accepting it. Suffering is the single greatest human motivator.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 10-27-2009, 04:29 PM   #54
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Obesity

I think it's easy to judge folks who take something to excess. I would say that willpower is at the source of all behavior, let alone addictive behavior, but that doesn't mean something can't or shouldn't be done about it. I feel where some pervasive negative exists, it is in the best interest of a society to impliment a positive influence.
I feel sorry for crack-heads. Most didn't have the upbringing that I did.

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 10-27-2009, 05:04 PM   #55
Aikibu
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Re: Obesity

Quote:
Matthew Gano wrote: View Post
I think it's easy to judge folks who take something to excess. I would say that willpower is at the source of all behavior, let alone addictive behavior, but that doesn't mean something can't or shouldn't be done about it. I feel where some pervasive negative exists, it is in the best interest of a society to impliment a positive influence.
I feel sorry for crack-heads. Most didn't have the upbringing that I did.
Agreed though among the upper middle class the eating disorders don't always lead to obesity... they can also lead to severe malnutrition disorders like Anorexia or Bulimia

Despite the opinions of some Compulsive Overeating is a recognized Medical Condition just like any other "disorder" and yes it's imperative the person "hit bottom" to get help However...the deck is still massively stacked against them. You have to eat...IMHE 9 out of 10 folks don't eat the way Micheal Pollen suggested and 10% of those develop an eating disorder. I feel the prejudice against overweight people is one of the last straw man memes the Fast Food Corporations have to obfuscate the damage they do to folks... Hence the reason I bristle when I hear this kind of ignorance directed towards Aikido.

Take it from someone who's in recovery for an eating disorder.

Is there a direct correlation between the huge number of Fast Food Restaurants near schools and the Billions spent on Marketing these foods to kids and the huge epidemic in Childhood Obesity?

You be the judge...

William Hazen
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Old 10-27-2009, 05:43 PM   #56
Keith Larman
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Re: Obesity

And for those who haven't read Mr. Pollan's books, another rule is to avoid any food that lists more than 5 ingredients on the label. The corollary to that rule is to avoid foods that list anything you cannot easily pronounce.

One thing we told our daughter was that she could get any breakfast cereal she wanted. The only rule I had was that it had to have less than 10 grams of sugar per serving. There are some that are less than that, but they are few. So apart from Cherrios we really don't have any breakfast cereal in the house. Occasionally I'll have her read the label about sodium too and let her judge for herself. She's gotten quite good about it. And sometimes keeps us in line too.

There is also a program out there called "fitday". They have a free web based diet tracking system. Not perfect, but hey, well built and free.

So once we started doing the "read the label" thing and restricted sugar and sodium levels, we were left pretty much with only preparing our food ourselves. Which is really the point. The science experiments that we call "packaged food" and "fast food" are killing us.

Learn to prepare your own food. Avoid anything that won't rot. Eat a balance of things but focus on plant stuff. Basically the more processed the "food" the less it resembles food.

Fruit, veggies, meats, dairy, legumes, etc. are primary. Quinoa is a great grain -- easy to cook, high in protein, and more complex than rices. Sparingly whole grains in breads, pasta. Avoid sugar. Avoid more processed grains (most wheats are now so finely ground with stainless steel rollers that our bodies barely have to work to digest them as compared with grains coarsely ground on stones).

Started doing that a year or two ago. Went from "pre-diabetic" to "not". Lost a few inches around the middle (more to go). Feel better overall.

Made a point to do the farmer's market more. Growing more in the yard too. Right now overloaded with persimmons. I even bake our bread now using sourdough starter (natural, wild leavening) using mostly whole grains (just a bit of white flour or else the kid won't eat it -- we have to compromise on some things).

Yeah, more work to do things that way. More planning. And occasionally I do go in for a good plate of Gai Kua at the local thai place.

We do allow occasional bit of candy. And we don't really demonize anything beyond asking her to read the labels.

And fwiw, thanks all for this thread. I've been getting up a bit early every morning and walking for my own health. I got thinking about it and asked the kid if she'd like to get up 30 minutes earlier and go with me. So this morning we had a lovely short walk together. Even though she is extremely active (soccer fanatic and always moving) I figure teaching her to set a schedule and exercise daily is a good example to set. And hopefully it will help keep me doing it too. Lord knows my knees, back and midsection need the help.

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Old 10-27-2009, 07:22 PM   #57
Voitokas
 
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Re: Obesity

At least half white flour and added wheat germ makes the best sourdough - I'm with the kid on that one!

I am not an expert
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Old 10-27-2009, 08:12 PM   #58
Rob Watson
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Re: Obesity

Quote:
Matthew Gano wrote: View Post
I think it's easy to judge folks who take something to excess. I would say that willpower is at the source of all behavior, let alone addictive behavior, but that doesn't mean something can't or shouldn't be done about it. I feel where some pervasive negative exists, it is in the best interest of a society to impliment a positive influence.
I feel sorry for crack-heads. Most didn't have the upbringing that I did.
I know plenty of crack heads and meth heads that are better educated and have had a much better upbringing than me (I think I got it pretty good). I don't feel sorry for them. I know plenty of crack/meth heads that had it much worse than me and I don't feel sorry for them either. They have brothers and sisters that are doing fine and are on a good track. It is complicated and it is simple. Some choose to avoid that junk and some choose to jump in with both feet.

I even know twin brothers (both college grads) ones a crack head and ones a tea tottler.One decided he likes crack and the other decided he likes track. What's different about them?

Last edited by Rob Watson : 10-27-2009 at 08:16 PM.

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Old 10-27-2009, 11:23 PM   #59
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Obesity

Quote:
Robert M Watson Jr wrote: View Post
I know plenty of crack heads and meth heads that are better educated and have had a much better upbringing than me (I think I got it pretty good). I don't feel sorry for them. I know plenty of crack/meth heads that had it much worse than me and I don't feel sorry for them either. They have brothers and sisters that are doing fine and are on a good track. It is complicated and it is simple. Some choose to avoid that junk and some choose to jump in with both feet.

I even know twin brothers (both college grads) ones a crack head and ones a tea tottler.One decided he likes crack and the other decided he likes track. What's different about them?
Of course we're not talking about physically addictive drugs per se, but rather obsessive behavior, which is often quite similar...Sticking with the more nefarious comparison because I actually have first-hand experience with it: I grew up in a place where at age 9 we played a game called suck the sugar through the straw. The only reason, I believe, I didn't graduate to the real stuff is because I had very strong positive influences in place to counter-act those negative influences. You're right, it's hard to say exactly why some people do some things...some cats die simply because of a flickering moment's curiosity, after all. I think my point still stands however, that where we see negative behaviors in place, it is a good idea to work toward creating positive influences. In the civic sense this means social programs of some kind.
I'm not trying to take away from the fact that each person is ultimately responsible for themselves. Life is a series of choices and even under the most dire settings we retain free will, painful though it may be to exercize.
However, once a problem has been rocognized I believe a response is in order...usually in the form of education, which, as an aside, i feel is a grossly underappreciated aspect of our society. But then again my short answer to all of society's qualms is more authentic education.

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 10-28-2009, 01:31 AM   #60
Aikibu
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Re: Obesity

Quote:
Robert M Watson Jr wrote: View Post
I know plenty of crack heads and meth heads that are better educated and have had a much better upbringing than me (I think I got it pretty good). I don't feel sorry for them. I know plenty of crack/meth heads that had it much worse than me and I don't feel sorry for them either. They have brothers and sisters that are doing fine and are on a good track. It is complicated and it is simple. Some choose to avoid that junk and some choose to jump in with both feet.

I even know twin brothers (both college grads) ones a crack head and ones a tea tottler.One decided he likes crack and the other decided he likes track. What's different about them?
You completely ignore the physiological aspect of addiction morphology but most normal folks do... which is why "will power" seems like such a rational choice to them...

Right now the Taliban are using a well known weapon to destroy our troops in Afghanistan and cause another huge public health nightmare here at home in the near future...Introducing and creating a hardcore addict population among our troops with heroin...Just like the Communists did with China White from the Golden Triangle during the Vietnam War... In can be argued those troops who came home with a hardcore heroin addiction started and helped fuel our almost 30 year "War on Drugs."

Talk about a Weapon of Mass Destruction...

Want another? It's estimated one average child from the age of 4 to 10 watches over 5 THOUSAND fast food commercials on television...

Choice Indeed...

William Hazen
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Old 10-28-2009, 01:42 AM   #61
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: Obesity and Aikido

Quote:
Chuck Clark wrote: View Post
Too much trouble, George... besides, I don't like the way their bones sound when they... oh, never mind...

Besides, I've misplaced a bit over forty pounds in the past three months and will continue to pay little attention to where I've left them for another sixty. They won't do the hip replacement until I've lost the weight... rest easy folks, it's your tax dollars at work, and thank you very much.

Best regards,
If more of my tax dollars went to such good causes, I'd be a lot happier. Anyway, you are making me and Francis look bad... keep it up and you are out of the seriously big boys club. I'll have to call Big Tony instead...

George S. Ledyard
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Old 10-28-2009, 07:56 AM   #62
DonMagee
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Re: Obesity

I have a simple rule. If i couldn't of killed it, caught it, or picked it, then it is unhealthy.

That means I try to always make my own food. It costs more, it takes longer, and it's a pain in the ass, but when I'm consistent with it I'm lower weight and healthier.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 10-28-2009, 08:54 AM   #63
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Obesity

Quote:
William Hazen wrote: View Post
You completely ignore the physiological aspect of addiction morphology but most normal folks do... which is why "will power" seems like such a rational choice to them...

Right now the Taliban are using a well known weapon to destroy our troops in Afghanistan and cause another huge public health nightmare here at home in the near future...Introducing and creating a hardcore addict population among our troops with heroin...Just like the Communists did with China White from the Golden Triangle during the Vietnam War... In can be argued those troops who came home with a hardcore heroin addiction started and helped fuel our almost 30 year "War on Drugs."

Talk about a Weapon of Mass Destruction...

Want another? It's estimated one average child from the age of 4 to 10 watches over 5 THOUSAND fast food commercials on television...

Choice Indeed...

William Hazen
That's a good point to make I think. Everything we do leaves a mark on the brain (i.e. develops a degree of hard-wiring). This is why habits can be so hard to break. Ask any addict about the power of association: certain smells, songs, etc. lead to profound physical responses associated with the addiction in question. Sure, it's easy to make an excuse out of it, but that shouldn't change the validity behind it either. People who have developed a small life-time of a habit have to put more effort into their will than folks with a less developed habit simply because those neurological pathways are so much more developed. Add the effects of physical dependancy, sometimes denoted as tolerance, and I believe it becomes even more difficult...and people do develop tolerance to things like sodium, a major componant to fast food.
Again, just to reinforce an idea, this shouldn't take away from the fact that willpower is the essential element to overcoming bad habits, but to dismiss this aspect of the reality behind addiction of any kind is to ignore an important truth, in my opinion...and is an excuse in its own right.
And as an aside, this is an example of why I'm so jaded toward the business culture: Money always seems to comes first; healthy behavior is an afterthought.

Last edited by mathewjgano : 10-28-2009 at 08:57 AM.

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Old 10-28-2009, 09:58 AM   #64
DonMagee
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Re: Obesity

My wife smoked for years before we met. When we first moved in together we made a rule that there would be no smoking in our small 1 bedroom apartment. She had always talked about quitting but never did it.

We were on the 3rd floor and she would go out on the balcony to smoke. That summer we got a very aggressive wasp nest on the balcony. The apartment complex said they would remove it after the season because there was no way for a worker to get to it without being attacked. Just opening the sliding door got you stung.

Now she was faced with risking pain, or walking down 3 flights of stairs every single time she wanted to smoke. By the time fall came she had quit smoking.

She says she thinks about it now and then, but then she thinks about the stink, the effort, and the cost. That keeps her out of it. She has never smoked again, it's been well over 7 years. It worked out well for her because I had told her I would never marry a smoker. Maybe that was her twisted plan after all. ;-)

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 10-28-2009, 10:08 AM   #65
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Obesity

Quote:
Don Magee wrote: View Post
My wife smoked for years before we met. When we first moved in together we made a rule that there would be no smoking in our small 1 bedroom apartment. She had always talked about quitting but never did it.

We were on the 3rd floor and she would go out on the balcony to smoke. That summer we got a very aggressive wasp nest on the balcony. The apartment complex said they would remove it after the season because there was no way for a worker to get to it without being attacked. Just opening the sliding door got you stung.

Now she was faced with risking pain, or walking down 3 flights of stairs every single time she wanted to smoke. By the time fall came she had quit smoking.

She says she thinks about it now and then, but then she thinks about the stink, the effort, and the cost. That keeps her out of it. She has never smoked again, it's been well over 7 years. It worked out well for her because I had told her I would never marry a smoker. Maybe that was her twisted plan after all. ;-)
It's funny how a little positive reinforcement can make a world of difference. For my grampa it took the doc telling him he would die soon if he didn't quit. His wife quit more or less of her own accord, but she said she never quit: she just wasn't smoking "right now." Decades later she's still not smoking. It's interesting what works for different people.

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 10-28-2009, 10:52 AM   #66
C. David Henderson
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Re: Obesity

Quote:
Matthew Gano wrote: View Post
Everything we do leaves a mark on the brain (i.e. develops a degree of hard-wiring).
Reminded me of this K.D. Lang song:

My Old Addiction

My old addiction
Changed the wiring in my brain
So that when it turns the switches
Then I am not the same

So like the flowers toward the Sun
I will follow
Stretch myself out thin
Like there's a part of me that's already buried
That sends me out into this window

My old addiction
Is a flood upon the land
This tiny lifeboat
Can keep me dry
But my weight is all
That it can stand

So when I try to lean just a little
For just a splash to cool my face
Ahh that trickle
Turns out fickle
Fills my boat up
Five miles deep

My old addiction
Makes me crave only what is best
Like these just this morning song birds
Craving upward from the nest
These tiny birds outside my window
Take my hand to be their mom
These open mouths
Would trust and swallow
Anything that came along

Like my old addiction
Now the other side of Day
As the springtime
Of my life's time
Turn's the other way

If a swan can have a song
I think I know that tune
But the page is only scrawled
And I am gone this afternoon
But the page is only scrawled
And I am gone this afternoon.

Regards,

cdh
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Old 10-28-2009, 12:16 PM   #67
jonreading
 
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Re: Obesity

I have now read several excuses for obesity:
1. The fast food chains advertising compaigns force us to make poor eating decisions
2. Our parent pass along to us "fat" genes and they make us fat
3. Eating is an addiction similar to heroine and we can't stop without intervention

You know what is absent from those excuses? Our own choices.
Obesity is a problem in the US. Our society should be applying a healthy encouragment to take better care of our bodies. We should want to be in better shape. I think we have negative pressure from the glamour of thin, but I believe we should advocate a healthier lifestyle.

(Excluding those who truly suffer from illnesses which adversely affect their bodies) My keyboard is dripping with sarcasm.

Got fat genes from your parents? That sucks - you will need to tweak your lifestyle choices to make up for that problem. High blood pressure? That sucks too - guess you'll have a slightly different lifestyle too. Metabolism slowing down? Guess you can't eat like you're 18 anymore. Every day we are presented with many lifestyle choices that can affect our health.

Quote:
Fat and obese people don't make money, being fat doesn't make a profit, say like Alcoholism does. Airlines support drinking, doctor's say wine and beer are good for you. Insurance companies will still insure you. Other industries glamorize drinking, we as a society accept drinking as a part of living. Yet, drinking, being drunk, kills more people, does more social damage, is worse for your health, a unhealthy lifestyle, and it isn't pretty. Yet the liquor industry is a billion dollar industry, therefore, that makes it socially acceptable.
Quote:
Well since it's being inferred there is more to being fat than just "willpower"... The Fast Food Industry alone spends Billions getting folks to eat it's garbage...and that is just one of a thousand examples...Our entire culture around food needs to change including how we grow it, harvest it, transport it, market it and finally eat it...We're all just reflections of that on most levels...We are truly a "Fast Food Nation."
Fat people don't make money for industry? Yet the fast food industry spends billions of dollars marketing to attract customers. We are not getting straight facts and now unsubstantiated claims are starting to conflict. The food industry makes money because people choose to eat prepared meals, their weight [with respect to the industry] is irrevelant to that choice.

I have a unique approach to stress - I walk at lunchtime and work in my yard on the weekends.

I go to a special retreat for people who have weight control concerns - I call it a gym.

My wife is always there for me when I can't seem to get motivated - she intervenes with the TV power button.

I am on a special diet of foods - it's the home-cooked meal.

These comments seem sarcastic, but I am writing them to show how many small decisions each day contribute to healthier lifestyles. None of these decisions have sinister industry plots behind them, or unstoppable force applied to affect my behavior me (** my wife excluded), or countless money spend to affect me. In fact, no one cares when I do these things.

But that's the rub - I am responsible for my decisions what if no one will care if I make poor ones? No one pats me on the back when I walk at lunchtime. No one says good job when I make dinner at home. But if I'm a victim...The fast food industry made me fatty food... The grocery store made me buy junk food... My parents gave me fat genes... Work doesn't give me time to exercise... Well, maybe that's different.

Keep your victimization. I'll answer to the bag of porkrinds I ate composing this response. This thread is starting to sound like a soapbox...It's only a matter of time till someone quotes one of the anti-food industry books in circulation (wait...I think that already happened.)
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Old 10-28-2009, 12:53 PM   #68
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Obesity

Quote:
Jon Reading wrote: View Post
I have now read several excuses for obesity:
1. The fast food chains advertising compaigns force us to make poor eating decisions
2. Our parent pass along to us "fat" genes and they make us fat
3. Eating is an addiction similar to heroine and we can't stop without intervention
I think those mischaracterize the messages I've been reading here, though maybe I've been misunderstanding what folks have intended to express.
1. There are cultural issues at play; they are an influence.
2. Genetics plays a role and we should respond accordingly...as you described.
3. Addictive behavior parallels other addictive behavior and is but one aspect of the larger issue surrounding obesity in America.

Last edited by mathewjgano : 10-28-2009 at 12:58 PM.

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 10-28-2009, 01:02 PM   #69
Aikibu
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Re: Obesity

Quote:
Jon Reading wrote: View Post
I
Keep your victimization. I'll answer to the bag of porkrinds I ate composing this response. This thread is starting to sound like a soapbox...It's only a matter of time till someone quotes one of the anti-food industry books in circulation (wait...I think that already happened.)
With all due respect it's only victimization if ones point of view is based on ignorance...

We call it..."Contempt prior to investigation" where I come from...

Enjoy your pork rinds...

William Hazen
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Old 10-28-2009, 01:19 PM   #70
C. David Henderson
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Re: Obesity

I'm not sure all the comments here are really about over-eating, as opposed to more general issues re. addiction or compulsive behavior.

That said, "addiction" can be and often does function as an excuse, particularly on the part of someone who has a problem with which they aren't ready to deal.

It's also, however, an explanation of behavior that points to particular coping mechanisms, and provides tools for taking real personal responsibility by understanding what may happen, for example, if one goes ahead and "lean[s] just a little [f]or just a splash to cool [one's] face."

I think taking responsibility for personal choices, as an idea, has to be connected to self-knowledge.

Like "addiction," "will power" can also be another set-up to continue self-destructive behavior.

YMMV

regards,

cdh
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Old 10-28-2009, 03:43 PM   #71
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Obesity

That's what I need...a wasps nest!

Best,
Ron
Quote:
Don Magee wrote: View Post
My wife smoked for years before we met. When we first moved in together we made a rule that there would be no smoking in our small 1 bedroom apartment. She had always talked about quitting but never did it.

We were on the 3rd floor and she would go out on the balcony to smoke. That summer we got a very aggressive wasp nest on the balcony. The apartment complex said they would remove it after the season because there was no way for a worker to get to it without being attacked. Just opening the sliding door got you stung.

Now she was faced with risking pain, or walking down 3 flights of stairs every single time she wanted to smoke. By the time fall came she had quit smoking.

She says she thinks about it now and then, but then she thinks about the stink, the effort, and the cost. That keeps her out of it. She has never smoked again, it's been well over 7 years. It worked out well for her because I had told her I would never marry a smoker. Maybe that was her twisted plan after all. ;-)

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
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Old 10-28-2009, 07:41 PM   #72
Rob Watson
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Re: Obesity

Quote:
William Hazen wrote: View Post
You completely ignore the physiological aspect of addiction morphology but most normal folks do... which is why "will power" seems like such a rational choice to them...
Not me. I only pointed out what I've seen in my goofy circle of friends and acquaintances being from a variety of walks of life all being afflicted with serious drug problems (I guess I should have mentioned all the fat folks, too). No particular rhyme or reason. The only real difference is the well to do background resulted in stealing from ones family while the less well off stole from whomever was nearby to feed their habits.

The well off folks also got more rehab but that didn't seem to do a danged thing.

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
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Old 10-28-2009, 07:51 PM   #73
Rob Watson
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Re: Obesity

Quote:
Philip Burgess wrote: View Post
Does having a high BMI as an Aikido reflect badly on Aikido, in a society that has constantly preferred thin over fat for about, around, a 200, and think is suppose to be healthier. Can society afford obese people, and thus, can Aikido afford it?
Bad grammer will (should) kill most topics.

Fat aikidoka won't be a problem for aikido. Folks doing bad aikido will be a problem for aikido. Bad folks doing aikido will be (is) a problem for aikido.

Although, fat people do roll better but thin folks bend better .. just stop short of spindle and mutilate...

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
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Old 10-28-2009, 08:17 PM   #74
DonMagee
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Re: Obesity

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote: View Post
That's what I need...a wasps nest!

Best,
Ron
Either that or you could try to marry me LOL.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 10-29-2009, 11:42 AM   #75
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Obesity

Uh, nah...PASS!!

Sides, my fiance would probably take it kind of personal...

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
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