Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Non-Aikido Martial Traditions

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-20-2009, 03:31 PM   #76
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: Who's got IT and can and will teach it?

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
I make it easy. I don't recommend anyone. I tell people to go out and feel and make their own choices. Then they own their choices.
Why? It's the only way I currently know to be fair and open about it
I'm tell 'em the same thing. And I always suggest that it's very important to find a guy they like and who seems like a nice guy, because that's how so much progress was made over the last 30 or so years. People I like and I think are serious, I give the best advice I can.

FWIW

Mike Sigman
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2009, 03:57 PM   #77
brian p
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 11
United_States
Offline
Re: Who's got IT and can and will teach it?

Quote:
Jun Akiyama wrote: View Post
Hi folks,

Let's keep criticisms of other websites off of here, please. I don't think such discussions are necessary here.

Thanks,

-- Jun
Thank you ma'am. EF.net's management feels the same way.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2009, 04:04 PM   #78
Ernesto Lemke
Dojo: Seikokan , Leeuwarden
Location: Leeuwarden. the Netherlands
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 150
Netherlands
Offline
Re: Who's got IT and can and will teach it?

Quote:
Robert M Watson Jr wrote: View Post
By all means send in some names! I know there are a great number of folks willing to travel far and wide to get IT.
I didn't mean to suggest I had any names or suggestions in mind myself when I made that remark. Actually, I was sorta hoping to stumble on the European equivalent, caliber wise that is by reputation and both physical and verbal testimony, of those that are considered 'authoritive' in the US. Two of which who are posting on this very thread.

Doing the rounds is costly both financially and time and energy wise. I wouldn't go out of my way to train with a mere 'someone' unless I had it on good grounds it'd be worth the investement. So although I can see the benefit in feeling other people, I'd choose spending time focusing on what I'm currently doing over the mere change to encounter something beneficial any ol' day.
Cheers

Ernesto Lemke
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2009, 05:52 PM   #79
Rob Watson
Location: CA
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 698
United_States
Offline
Re: Who's got IT and can and will teach it?

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Thats the hard part though. As Mike pointed out above- how do you recommend; based on what/ For me, when I look at all of it the things I have felt and or have seen:
1. There are guys with a lot of power but maybe it is quasi-internal simple frame stuff. Make no mistake it can be tons of power but it is incomplete
2. There are guys with soft jujutsu-this includes a few ICMA teachers who like to talk about internal power, but they really don't have a clue. They are confusing people (who don't know any better) with their soft jujutsu They can toss you like no ones business- but it's not IP/aiki
3. There are guys with internal power, but lack the skill in using it in fluid resistance at speed. They are hobbyists.
4. There are guys with IP who really cannot teach it well
5. There are guys with only a fraction of the big picture but who can teach what they know really well
6. And any number of folks in-between in all of the above.

I make it easy. I don't recommend anyone. I tell people to go out and feel and make their own choices. Then they own their choices.
Why? It's the only way I currently know to be fair and open about it
Cheers
Dan
Hello Mr. Harden,
Yup, kind of what pushed me over the edge and make this thread was your seminar for instructors (at least that seems to be the message I got from the postings of late). I'm trying to figure out who was there and if any of those folks are nearer to my location.

Now, if you would just be so kind as post a list of names .... I don't worry about fair and open but for now I would prefer someone that has been to your seminar or spent some time at 'the barn'.

Eventually I'll run through the list I've got so far and see if any of those folks will answer "been to the barn or seminar-know anybody who has?" and of they are willing to share. I'm pretty sure there are more folks that have been to the seminar and/or 'barnside' than are on the list so far ...

For now I've got the host of folks that go through seminars at ADV (Ikeda, Gleason, Angier, Ledyard). I'm looking for more than seminars as well (once a year ain't gonna cut it).

Thanks

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2009, 09:21 PM   #80
thisisnotreal
 
thisisnotreal's Avatar
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 692
Offline
Re: Who's got IT and can and will teach it?

Quote:
Brian Phillips wrote: View Post
Thank you ma'am. EF.net's management feels the same way.
Hi Brian, fyi; Jun is a `sir` and not a ma'am.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2009, 10:14 AM   #81
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: Who's got Internal Training and can and will teach it?

Kool, thanks, maybe if I get up that way we can look him up...and thanks to you too Mark!
B,
R
Quote:
Greg Steckel wrote: View Post
Hey Ron, looks like he is my backyard...

Greg

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2009, 02:03 PM   #82
Rob Watson
Location: CA
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 698
United_States
Offline
Re: Who's got IT and can and will teach it?

Quote:
I didn't mean to suggest I had any names or suggestions in mind myself when I made that remark.
Lest there be any confusion: The list I posted is not a recommendation by me (I have less than limited skills in this area) or anyone else. I compiled a list of folks that had been mentioned to be participants in a Dan Harden seminar. Also, folks that had previously been mentioned as possessing some significant aspect of IP/aiki and willing to teach.

I invited others to add to the list.

I only mention Dan Harden by name because he has gone out of his way to take on instructing aikido folks that are going to go on and teach what they learn in the aikido community (at least that is the impression I have of the events/comments). Originally, I wanted to know who these folks are and how can I get my hands on them. That is all.

I admit my choice of phrasing was poor (IT club, don't talk about IT club, etc) as this carries much more baggage than my feeble attempt at humor intended-my sense of frustration is captured pretty well.

Dan Harden holds seminar for aikido instructors! Who are they? That is all. I just wish more of them were closer to me so I could get more direct and regular contact. I'm selfish that way.

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2009, 12:43 PM   #83
Robert Cowham
Dojo: East Sheen Aikido and Kashima No Tachi
Location: London, UK
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 229
Offline
Re: Who's got Internal Training and can and will teach it?

For a rather different take on IT I would recommend Peter Ralston and Cheng Hsin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ILczURN99k

There are a variety of aikido people who have trained with him for varying lengths of time.

http://chenghsin.com/chenghsin-main.html
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2009, 01:51 PM   #84
Rob Watson
Location: CA
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 698
United_States
Offline
Re: Who's got Internal Training and can and will teach it?

...

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2009, 05:20 PM   #85
Robert Cowham
Dojo: East Sheen Aikido and Kashima No Tachi
Location: London, UK
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 229
Offline
Re: Who's got Internal Training and can and will teach it?

Re Peter Ralston, I have felt an uproot from one of his senior students, and it was like being hit by an express train.

It's not all about power - a large focus is on yielding/speed. But power is certainly there.

Anyway, I would recommend people check out Cheng Hsin if you have an opportunity.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2009, 08:32 AM   #86
kironin
 
kironin's Avatar
Dojo: Houston Ki Aikido
Location: Houston,TX
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,032
United_States
Offline
Re: Who's got IT and can and will teach it?

Haven't been on aikiweb much lately.

Interesting thread, going through my mind too is that while yes, we have a separate ranking for what you could call our IT, there are those among the high ranked who were trained by Tohei Sensei for many years that I have felt a whole another level from and I have been trained by that are at the top of my priority list to seek out because they also teach well. (some have now passed away, because that is an older generation mostly) I have a reasonable confidence in what I know because my teacher that I started back in the early 90's and his teacher were actively interested and actively cultivating in their own unique ways such internal skills. Unfortunately, not being on the east coast, I can't just hop in a car and visit some of the people mentioned. In person, I'd rather have the attitude that I don't assume I know anything until I experience it. If it connects with anything I may know that will manifest itself soon enough and those discoveries are fun to make. However , one of the plans in my business for the next year is soon to start traveling out of Texas, so I would love to know of people doing this that are open to visitors interested in comparing notes and who I could learn from.

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
Well, first of all let me go back to something that I don't think has really penetrated very clearly.... these skills aren't unique to Aikido nor were they unique to Daito Ryu, nor are concepts for different styles/factions unique, and so on. Notice that Tohei has a separate ranking for the ki/kokyu skills outside of his Aikido ranking. Note that O-Sensei's cryptic quotes are obliquely sometimes and specific many times in quoting standard Chinese directions/admonitions about these skills.

When people start talking about "ki" and they have Yin-Yang dichotomy and "A-Un" and Five Elements, etc., we're talking about the same basic skills with the same basic rules and principles. Some Koryu or Aikido faction that uses different techniques and applications, that's fine but the basic ki skills by necessity must be the same, depending upon how purely they're done.

FWIW

Mike Sigman

  Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2009, 08:36 AM   #87
MM
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,996
United_States
Offline
Re: Who's got IT and can and will teach it?

Quote:
Craig Hocker wrote: View Post
However , one of the plans in my business for the next year is soon to start traveling out of Texas, so I would love to know of people doing this that are open to visitors interested in comparing notes and who I could learn from.
I'm near the Pittsburgh area, so if you find yourself there, let me know.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2009, 08:51 AM   #88
kironin
 
kironin's Avatar
Dojo: Houston Ki Aikido
Location: Houston,TX
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,032
United_States
Offline
Re: Who's got IT and can and will teach it?

Interesting Marc,

My Iaido teacher lives in north eastern Pennsylvannia, I have planned to spend time up in that region anyway to be able to do some intensive training with him, so would be interesting to drop in. Since my teacher's teacher trained under and received his first several dan rankings under Imaizumi Sensei and when I first started we were basically using Imaizumi's nomenclature on our technique lists, would be like coming home to visit.

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
Robert:

I am very fortunate that my teacher, Imaizumi Shizuo, has always encouraged me to go anywhere and train with anyone to learn what I can about budo. I typically return from these trainings with my eyes more "open" than before to see what my teacher is doing (that I was not ready to "see" yet). He then feeds my awareness and gives me more stuff to work on. I realized that the only way that I would really be able to pursue this path was to open my own school so that I could ramp up my own training.

I consider myself very fortunate to have experienced some of the names on that list. Mr. Harden has been remarkably gracious in following up my participation in his seminar with a weekend of training at my school. I plan on continuing my work with him. He has an awful lot of stuff to offer in a friendly, funny and brutally honest manner (my type of environment). Ushiro Kenji has been another person who has remarkably gracious towards me. My school is now the only place that you can train directly with him in the United States. He will be at my school next weekend (10/24& 10/25) and there are still some spaces left for people to attend. I now also travel to Japan several times a year to train directly with him. His students, like Dan's students, are wonderful people whom you cannot help but become friendly with. Training with them is like training at Shin-Budo Kai. It is a place of friendship and honest training. These remarkable teachers create training environments that are genuine and unique.

I would be nothing other than a greedy rectum if I were to hold onto what I am learning. I am fortunate to have a school full of open-minded martial artists who are interested in this "grand experiment" that is my teaching. I aspire to be like Imaizumi Shizuo, who always says that he is passing on what he has learned from his teachers. He does not claim "ownership" despite the fifty years of personal touch that he now gives back to his teaching. I always strive to do the same and pass on what others have been gracious enough to share with me. I hope that as I learn more, my teachings can be a better reflection of those wonderful people who so openly and graciously share what they know with me. Until then, my students humor me and suffer through the little that I know to date !

Marc Abrams

  Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2009, 10:35 AM   #89
Marc Abrams
Dojo: Aikido Arts of Shin Budo Kai/ Bedford Hills, New York
Location: New York
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,302
United_States
Offline
Re: Who's got IT and can and will teach it?

Quote:
Craig Hocker wrote: View Post
Interesting Marc,

My Iaido teacher lives in north eastern Pennsylvannia, I have planned to spend time up in that region anyway to be able to do some intensive training with him, so would be interesting to drop in. Since my teacher's teacher trained under and received his first several dan rankings under Imaizumi Sensei and when I first started we were basically using Imaizumi's nomenclature on our technique lists, would be like coming home to visit.
Craig:

Would love for you to drop in for a visit! Anything that I can do to help facilitate you travel and lodging arrangements, please let me know.

Marc Abrams
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2009, 12:03 PM   #90
Thomas Campbell
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 407
Offline
Re: Who's got IT and can and will teach it?

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
Craig:

Would love for you to drop in for a visit! Anything that I can do to help facilitate you travel and lodging arrangements, please let me know.

Marc Abrams
Nice, Marc (and Mark).

The cool thing about this forum is this kind of cooperative education, when egos and personalities don't get in the way.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2009, 12:34 PM   #91
Marc Abrams
Dojo: Aikido Arts of Shin Budo Kai/ Bedford Hills, New York
Location: New York
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,302
United_States
Offline
Re: Who's got IT and can and will teach it?

Quote:
Thomas Campbell wrote: View Post
Nice, Marc (and Mark).

The cool thing about this forum is this kind of cooperative education, when egos and personalities don't get in the way.
Thomas:

I agree with Ellis Amdur's observations about Aikido attracting passive-aggressive people. I also find that some of the most sincere, honest, good-hearted martial artists are also in the "Aikido crowd." I truly enjoy meeting the people from this forum face-to-face. I do not think that I could have developed as far as I have in my philosophical, energy, and physical understandings within Aikido without the valuable comments from people on this forum. Like my teacher, my dojo is an open dojo. The sharing of ideas, experiences, techniques.... helps to keep our art alive and not suffocating from a self-imposed, political vacuum.

Marc Abrams
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2009, 12:42 PM   #92
Kevin Leavitt
 
Kevin Leavitt's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Location: Stuttgart, Baden Wurttemberg
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,376
Germany
Offline
Re: Who's got Internal Training and can and will teach it?

I agree Marc!

  Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2009, 12:50 PM   #93
thisisnotreal
 
thisisnotreal's Avatar
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 692
Offline
Re: Who's got Internal Training and can and will teach it?

Me too! I have learned a lot from many different people on these pages. I am very grateful.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2009, 07:12 PM   #94
ashe
 
ashe's Avatar
Dojo: Tempe Arizona I Liq Chuan
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 145
United_States
Offline
Re: Who's got IT and can and will teach it?

Quote:
Craig Hocker wrote: View Post
However , one of the plans in my business for the next year is soon to start traveling out of Texas, so I would love to know of people doing this that are open to visitors interested in comparing notes and who I could learn from.
if you make it to the 602 (Phoenix) feel free to drop me a line!

tiger at the gate
-----------------------
discipline, concentration & wisdom
Twitter-@luoyegongfu
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2009, 11:03 AM   #95
Alex Lee
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8
Offline
Re: Who's got Internal Training and can and will teach it?

I'm willing to go over few exercises or workout if anyone is interested. There isn't many folks around my area that seems to be interested in IP so I would love to have another person to work with.

I have trained with Ark in Tokyo for about year and a half.
I'm mostly a hobbyist but I can demonstrate a bit of IP. I think Rob John could vouch for me.

I'm located in Bowie, MD area. Free free to ping me via email anytime.
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:17 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate