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Old 03-31-2002, 08:11 AM   #1
Bruce Baker
Dojo: LBI Aikikai/LBI ,NJ
Location: Barnegaat, NJ
Join Date: Sep 2001
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Lightbulb Would Aikido be less if explained in english

Would Aikido be less readily embraced in other cultures if all terms were translated into mother tongues of that country, not using the Japanese terminology in other than instuctor and dan level classes? I wonder?

As the time frame of WWII passes into history, so too does the memory and relevence of Aikido being the recast Budo of Morehei Ueshiba, O'Sensei? Children tend to lessen the importance of what the previous generation has learned, they want to relearn things in their own way. Will that time blur the meaning of Japanese language the same as it did Latin as the preferred language of the modern world?

Will many of the terms for Aikido techniques be adapted into mother tongue languages and forgotten as the years pass, much like the reading of the bible in latin?

Or is it this damned Meniere's disease (limited short term memory) that forces me to learn everything on gut level and let the terminology come over time that continues to force my mind to use English to Japanese tranlation without, directly, giving the term its own meaning?
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Old 03-31-2002, 10:46 AM   #2
jimvance
Dojo: Jiyushinkan
Location: Mesa, AZ
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Learn the Language

Quote:
Originally posted by Bruce Baker Will [that] time blur the meaning of Japanese language the same as it did Latin as the preferred language of the modern world?
The Japanese themselves blur the language enough as it is, forget about time. And I think Latin was the preferred language of the classical world. Latin is now the preferred language of science, and would be a good language to translate Aikido names into IF they had kanji attached to them (we talked about this before).
Quote:
Will many of the terms for Aikido techniques be adapted into mother tongue languages and forgotten as the years pass, much like the reading of the bible in latin?
Aikido techniques and the rise of literacy within Christian Europe are really two different subjects. But you could ask the same question regarding ballet (French), philosophy (German and Greek), and many other disciplines.

Jim Vance
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Old 03-31-2002, 06:46 PM   #3
mle
Dojo: The Dojo (www.the-dojo.com
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Re: Would Aikido be less if explained in english

Quote:
Originally posted by Bruce Baker
[b]Would Aikido be less readily embraced in other cultures if all terms were translated into mother tongues of that country, not using the Japanese terminology in other than instuctor and dan level classes? I wonder?
[b]

I have had teachers who used Japanese and those who refused to. Not much difference to me. Just more words. Not a problem for me despite mild ADD, cross-dominance (left-eyed and right-handed) and being a kinesthetic learner. I went to school in the 70s, so no syndrome named after me or any sympathy. Just wierd red cellophane over one eye and funky exercises in a Special Class. Yay.
We all have things to overcome.


Or is it this damned Meniere's disease (limited short term memory
Actually, my spouse has Meniere's disease and it does not affect short term memory (he is absent minded enough all by himself!).

Symptoms include (sources before lists):

http://oto.wustl.edu/men/mn1.htm

"Detailed description of symptoms
1) Periodic episodes of rotatory vertigo or dizziness.
Periodic attacks of vertigo ( the so-called Ménière's "attack") is the most disruptive of the symptoms to the patient.... Often the patient will confine themselves to bed until the symptoms subside.

The Meniere's patient has to deal with a lack of control of their situation, except for the limited control provided by taking anti-vertiginous drugs. Even when the symptoms have passed, they must face the stress and uncertainty of when the next episode will occur, and whether it will be more or less severe than previous ones. It is generally true that most people underestimate how disruptive episodic rotatory vertigo can be to an individual's life. "

http://oto.wustl.edu/men/mn1.htm -
"2) Fluctuating, progressive, low-frequency hearing loss

3) Tinnitus
Tinnitus is sustained, loud "ringing" in the ears.

4) Aural fullness"
_______________________________________
http://oto.wustl.edu/men/pressure/survsymp.htm -
"Hearing Loss
Tinnitus: Ringing or noises in ears
Vertigo: spinning sensation
Feeling of fullness in the ear "
_________________________________________

http://oto.wustl.edu/men/pressure/survsymp.htm
This one does mention memory problems. These mimic results of sleep deprivation and mental problems from it.
___________________________________________
http://members.idnsi.com/sgm/
"1) Periodic episodes of rotatory vertigo or dizziness.

2) Fluctuating, progressive, low-frequency hearing loss

3) Tinnitus

4) A sensation of "fullness" or pressure in the ear."
____________________________________________
http://www.vestibular.org/menieres.html
Doesn't mention memory loss either, nor any mental problems.
____________________________________________
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/otola.../menieres.html

"What are the symptoms of Meniere's disease?

The most debilitating symptom is vertigo,

tinnitus
loss of hearing
pressure in the affected ear
loss of balance
headaches
abdominal discomfort
diarrhea "
___________________________________________

You have already seen these sites, I am sure.
May I gently suggest that the mental problems may be from another, perhaps undiscovered problem? You seem unable to respond to what is actually going on in this forum, instead creating questions for which you already have an opinion or answer. This suggests an entirely different problem than an inner ear disorder.

Good luck to you.

mle

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Old 04-02-2002, 12:40 PM   #4
Bruce Baker
Dojo: LBI Aikikai/LBI ,NJ
Location: Barnegaat, NJ
Join Date: Sep 2001
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Aikido in english?

Thanks Emily.

My symptoms are so bad, I have had to reduce Aikido to once a week, mornings only.

That with other nerve damage, Trigeminal neuralgia, creating the condition equal to, and I quote myself, "having the flu with a hangover on a ship in a hurricane," or ... here is what happens with 50% balance in one ear and trigeminal neuralgia turning that on and off.

Electro stimulus and diet are helping, but good days are like most peoples bad days ... makes it tough to play nice, or get a good roll in Aikido some days?

Anyway, I was refering to the instinctive learning of terminology in a mother tongue. The human mind tends to learn foreign languages in mother tongue then translate it from this base terminology?

Would words work best, or maybe we should resort to numbered terminology?

After my term of military in the early 70's, I tend to resist terminology or numbers, finding descriptive terms more accurate.

As for mental problems, try counting backward from a hundred by odd numbers with nikkyo making you tap out? You could do it with practice, but it is easier without the pain? I wish I had that luxury tapping out? There is related memory loss from constant pain/noise and other personality changing symptoms for Meniere's ... the best list of symptoms I found were in Great Britain. They have recognized it longer than USA?

Thanks for the post. I do appreciate the thought. (Yeah, I am much better informed than I let on. Ignoring Meniere's for twenty five years only make it worse, not go away. Thanks anyway.)

FYI Chuck: Your Menieres now sounds like where I was fifteen years ago, two years before, I started MA. Watch out for ear infections from flu or bad colds. Get them early care. (Of course, my working outside ten months a year, even when sick didn't help, either. Don't let it damage you)
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Old 04-02-2002, 03:29 PM   #5
erikmenzel
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Re: Learn the Language

Quote:
Originally posted by jimvance
And I think Latin was the preferred language of the classical world.
Classical as in during the Roman empire, yes.
Classical as during the humanistic time, yes, but only together with ancient Greek (and biblical Hebrew), and only for scientists and the clergy.
Classical as from 1600 until the industrial revolution, nope.
Quote:
Latin is now the preferred language of science
No this is not true!! This used to be the case for a long time, but is no longer the case nowerdays. English is the preffered language of science! Any use of Latin in science is only a legacy of times gone by. Simply look at any publication in science and you will find hardly any Latin.
Quote:
and (Latin) would be a good language to translate Aikido names into IF they had kanji attached to them (we talked about this before).
No, for the majority of people this would just mean replacing one set of strange and alien words by another. Another problem would be that due to their different origin and context one can not expect any clear and non-ambigues relation between the concepts within those languages.

Erik Jurrien Menzel
kokoro o makuru taisanmen ni hirake
Personal:www.kuipers-menzel.com
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Old 04-02-2002, 07:17 PM   #6
Arianah
Dojo: Aikido of Norwalk
Location: CT
Join Date: Nov 2001
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Quote:
Originally posted by erikknoops
Another problem would be that due to their different origin and context one can not expect any clear and non-ambigues relation between the concepts within those languages.
That is true. I took Latin for four years in high school. In that class we also discussed quite a bit of philosophy among other things. One thing that my teacher said was that the Latin language is based nearly exclusively on tangible concepts, which made discussion of esoteric topics very difficult. Since English and romance languages are derived from Latin, the same problem occurs. Greek, however, was a great philosophical language, as it had many words that it would take paragraphs to explain in Latin or Latin-derived languages. The same is true of Japanese. There are concepts that our language simply does not address. There are so many layers to some of the Japanese terms that cannot be translated perfectly into other languages as a single term. For example, I've seen zan shin translated as "awareness," but there is so much more to it, so that translation is insufficient, and the concept is lost. I don't see the problem with leaving terms in Japanese. If it ain't broke . . .

Sarah
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