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Old 10-07-2009, 08:36 PM   #51
Keith Larman
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Re: Societal Responsibility

Hey, Dan, no argument from me. I found this one today while surfing around on-line. It seems to me that things like this *should* be embarrassing to the politician when made public. But today it seems to be S.O.P.

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2009...on-with-p.html

And then the lists of just how much money is flowing into campaign coffers of both parties from corporate interests. I keep wondering when a politician is just going to be honest enough to run the way Stephen Colbert tried to in the presidential election and just say they're sponsored by "flaming hot Doritos...". Because it seems most of them are.

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Old 10-08-2009, 07:12 AM   #52
dps
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Re: Societal Responsibility

Quote:
David Orange wrote: View Post
As much as we know that an individual's choices can lead him to a better life, it's not at all surprising that millions of very poor people never learn that.
Very poor people. Do you mean in the U.S.? Poor as compared to the rich in the U.S.? Poor as compared to the rest of the world?
Poor is a relative term. The poor in the U.S. have a better standard of living than then most poor in the world and they have better political rights and civil liberties too.

David
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Old 10-08-2009, 07:14 AM   #53
Marc Abrams
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Re: Societal Responsibility

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Hi Tobs
While true, I think the real dilemma we are facing is that the Senate and congress are for sale. I see no reasonable way to fix it either. I think nothing delights them more than seeing Conservatives and Liberals polarize every issue. Why? It keeps the issues divided and the money pouring in without anyone realizing both sides are on the take.
Due to the nature of my business I deal with wealthy people quite a bit. I had a client of mine (lets call him David) tell me a story once of being on his boat with two Senators and two Congressman. After they made their deal, The democratic senator said to him "David, if the people of this country ever knew what we were doing in D.C. they would come down and kill us all. Not long after; bing, bing, bing, three major projects occur benefiting him personally-one underwritten with state funds. Who got it done. It just so happens it was the the democratic Senator....this time.
What makes the situation so dire, is that there is no one group that is guilty and can be pointed to. There is a diversity of special interests both public and private, lobbying and/ or paying off the ones who are in charge, and who make the laws and approve the spending of our money. And they are the ones who are corrupt.
I don't trust anyone of them-as a group. A fool can can see $60M being spent to get a job paying $250K and know something is desperately wrong. But on it goes. I don't see the country ever coming together to jointly face the one overiding issue that continues to erode our countries best efforts.
I don't think we get a clear picture of just what we are capable of doing with the delicate balance of creating safety nets, and programs for support, while leaving enough incentive for those with creative energy and drive to be rewarded over those who do not sped as much effort to succeed.
Human nature is best revealed in rewarding hard work, striving and charity. The struggle is how to reward the one, support the other, and not remove incentive.
Cheers
Dan
Dan has essentially elaborated on my previous post. To clarify an excellent point made by Keith, I am not talking about government running like today's businesses. I am talking more generally about having to run efficiently and effectively. As Dan has so clearly pointed out BOTH POLITICAL PARTIES HAVE PROSTITUTED THEMSELVES OUT! My father had as a patient a very famous political reporter. Before this person died, he told my father that if the American people knew just 10% of how Washington really operated, there would be a revolution in the streets the next day. This man died in the mid seventies!

I do not hold much hope out for government to fix itself. They have too much at stake in the corruption. If our country was serious about addressing this problem, we could "clean house" relatively quickly by enacting the following iron-clad rules:
1) Government funds any and all political campaigns equally. No personal funding or accepting of any outside funding is permissible. Any violation of this, both the giver and receiver go straight to jail and do not cross Go!
2) Any forms of lobbying and/or treats, political favors..... is treated like it is, bribery. Both sides go straight to jail and do not cross Go!
3) Except for security & national safety issues, total transparency in government. Open phone logs, visit logs....

Just imagine what it would be like if our elected officials were truly beholden to the people.

Marc Abrams
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Old 10-08-2009, 10:58 AM   #54
Toby Threadgill
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Re: Societal Responsibility

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post

I do not hold much hope out for government to fix itself. They have too much at stake in the corruption. If our country was serious about addressing this problem, we could "clean house" relatively quickly by enacting the following iron-clad rules:
1) Government funds any and all political campaigns equally. No personal funding or accepting of any outside funding is permissible. Any violation of this, both the giver and receiver go straight to jail and do not cross Go!
2) Any forms of lobbying and/or treats, political favors..... is treated like it is, bribery. Both sides go straight to jail and do not cross Go!
3) Except for security & national safety issues, total transparency in government. Open phone logs, visit logs....

Just imagine what it would be like if our elected officials were truly beholden to the people.

Marc Abrams
Mark and Dan,

I agree. Both parties are corrupt and the access to corporate money for campaign finance is where the problem starts. What do you think the chance is that congress will ever enact true campaign finance reform? If it was seriously proposed by some rare creature ( an honest politician) the ensuing battle would make the nastiness surrounding healthcare reform look like a girl scout meeting. Imagine the propagation of lies and huge sums of corporate money dumped into defeating any restrictions on corporate influence.

We are standing at the edge of an abyss right now as the Supreme Court considers the concept of corporate personhood.

See: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/11/op...tue4.html?_r=1

Toby Threadgill / TSYR
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Old 10-08-2009, 11:16 AM   #55
Marc Abrams
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Re: Societal Responsibility

Quote:
Toby Threadgill wrote: View Post
Mark and Dan,

I agree. Both parties are corrupt and the access to corporate money for campaign finance is where the problem starts. What do you think the chance is that congress will ever enact true campaign finance reform? If it was seriously proposed by some rare creature ( an honest politician) the ensuing battle would make the nastiness surrounding healthcare reform look like a girl scout meeting. Imagine the propagation of lies and huge sums of corporate money dumped into defeating any restrictions on corporate influence.

We are standing at the edge of an abyss right now as the Supreme Court considers the concept of corporate personhood.

See: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/11/op...tue4.html?_r=1

Toby Threadgill / TSYR
Toby:

The "Supreme" Court has already shot down some finance/bribery/corruption reform last session. This was suppose to be the last vestige of sanity. As to the odds of the our government enacting some real campaign finance laws that the Supreme Court will uphold, I ask you the question-> What are the odds of you drawing your sword and splitting a meteorite that is about to hit the earth ?

Regards,

Marc
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Old 10-08-2009, 12:01 PM   #56
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Re: Societal Responsibility

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David Orange wrote: View Post
Plenty of good points, Jon, but who sees "rights" as "something that either comes from the government or does not exist"?

We are endowed by our Creator with certain inalienable rights. Among these are the rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, but those are not all the rights our Creator has given us (and though this was written in the US Declaration of Independence, it was written as a statement of the universal nature of humanity).

The problem in the scenario you have given is that you attach no level of responsibility to those on the upper end of the economy and very little other than responsibility to those on the lower end. In other words, all rights for the wealthy and no responsibility. And while you protest the tax burdens of the super rich, you neglect to note that those people own virtually everything in the United States. Therefore, they accrue the far greatest benefits of the society to themselves and should pay the greatest price. And they still come out thousands of times better off than those on the lower end.

That super elite also has the greatest degree of control over the social structures within which the less privileged must live and operate. They control the laws, the schools, the courts, the businesses and they profit by everyone else's use of those systems. They also create the social conditions under which "the land of the free" has more people in prison today than any other industrialized "free" country in the world. Their policies separate families and condemn young people to lives without fathers in communities where very little evidence of hope and opportunity are to be found. Sure, some individuals can overcome that. Theoretically, any individual could, but mostly they languish.

So it's not a clean cut matter of personal choice to be rich or impoverished. As much as we know that an individual's choices can lead him to a better life, it's not at all surprising that millions of very poor people never learn that.

Best wishes.

David
Hey David-

I am going to try to clear up some of your points...

1.Government rights. You cited one of the most importance government documents held by the US to draw to the fact people have rights - the next lines of the quote are:
Quote:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, .
So we establish government to protect these rights. I think because we rely upon the government to protect our rights we dismiss those other "rights" that are not specifically outlined by the government.

2. Productivity burden. I cited a statistical comparison of the tax burden, identifying the stratification of socio-economic class. No where do I attach a responsibility to any of the socio-economic class; I simply reference the significant stratification in productivity and financial burden. Nor did I advocate who should carry the tax burden.
However, since we are on the topic, my stance is that financial burden in general should follow productivity. That is, those who produce more are capable of carrying a greater tax burden. I have concerns when the tax burden is carried significantly by the elite as the statistics indicate. I also have concerns when the tax burden deters productivity, which I believe in short time it will.
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Old 10-08-2009, 12:29 PM   #57
Aikibu
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Re: Societal Responsibility

Quote:
Jon Reading wrote: View Post
Hey David-

I am going to try to clear up some of your points...

2. Productivity burden. I cited a statistical comparison of the tax burden, identifying the stratification of socio-economic class. No where do I attach a responsibility to any of the socio-economic class; I simply reference the significant stratification in productivity and financial burden. Nor did I advocate who should carry the tax burden.
However, since we are on the topic, my stance is that financial burden in general should follow productivity. That is, those who produce more are capable of carrying a greater tax burden. I have concerns when the tax burden is carried significantly by the elite as the statistics indicate. I also have concerns when the tax burden deters productivity, which I believe in short time it will.
The Productivity Burden is another Neo-Classical Economic Myth that was seized by Conservatives to further their economic aims and is in direct opposition to the realities of US economic life and that section of the Constitution you "interpreted" for David.

Just off the top of my head taxes for the rich in terms of percentage of income were at an all time high just after WWII and through most of the 50s and 60s...Considered by most to be a golden age of economic life for Middle Class Americans.

Elizabeth Warren explains what happened between then and now despite the huge tax cuts given to the Rich over the last 50 years and the easing of the "Productivity Burden".

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...78.html?sub=AR

Enjoy....

William Hazen

Last edited by Aikibu : 10-08-2009 at 12:32 PM.
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Old 10-08-2009, 12:39 PM   #58
Aikibu
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Re: Societal Responsibility

Ooops my Bad...Here is the interview...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...T2009100800781

William Hazen
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Old 10-08-2009, 02:57 PM   #59
Toby Threadgill
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Re: Societal Responsibility

Hi,

I'm with William here. During the Eisenhower administration the top income tax rate was almost 90%. It was JFK who first suggested that this rate of taxation was too high and lowered it. In 2009, the highest tax rate is 35%, but listening to Rush Limbaugh, you'd think it was 95%. The taxation rate differential between the middle class and wealthiest Americans is only 7% today. Also, when you consider that a majority of wealthy Americans can shelter huge percentages of their income, you realize their "real" taxation rate is far below 35%. Therefore, claims of "overtaxation" are downright disingenuous. One wealthy investor I know bragged to me about his new Porsche, bought with his GW Bush tax refund for the rich. This trillion dollar tax cut to the rich was sold as an economic stimulus that would trickle down to everyone in the economy. Did his tax refund "trickle down" to other Americans like GW's "Laffer Curve" cronies claimed it would? Heck no.... His new Porsche was bought in Grand Cayman, where he shelters his money to avoid paying US taxes. This is reality folks, not BS theory like "productivity burden".

I've never begrudged the current progressive tax structure which insists I pay a larger overall percentage of my income in taxes than those in the middle class. I live in a country that gives me wonderful opportunity and quality of life. I will not take it for granted by bitching about paying more in taxes than an American citizen who is installing phones, working on my car or employed as a nurse in a hospital. These middle class American workers are the engine that make our nation great. They have been economically bullied and taken for granted in Washington for decades. Why? They have no high paid lobbyist twisting arms and bribing their legislators.

I don't know how the concept of social responsibility was trashed and individual greed substituted for it, but greed will be our undoing unless we rediscover that we are all best off when we have a thriving, healthy and productive middle class, Something that has been shrinking in size since 1980.

Toby Threadgill / TSYR
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Old 10-08-2009, 05:00 PM   #60
C. David Henderson
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Re: Societal Responsibility

I totally agree.

cdh
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Old 10-08-2009, 05:27 PM   #61
Aikibu
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Re: Societal Responsibility

Thanks guys,

I don't want to misconstrue this as a particular dig on George W Bush...but he is the only President to cut Taxes during a time of War...

The fact that Alan Greenspan supported these Tax Cuts shows just how bankrupt both Neo-Classical Economics and The Reagan Revolution have become. With disastrous results.

After 30 years of consistent attacks...The greatest fear the Conservative Movement has is... That our current President may make the Ideology of Government as a Public Service and a Social Responsibility relevant again.

William Hazen
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Old 10-09-2009, 08:48 AM   #62
C. David Henderson
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Re: Societal Responsibility

If you're so inclined, take a look at Paul Krugman's op-ed in the Times today, regarding the rise and fall of American public education. I think it's an example of what happens when the commonweal is shortchanged too long.
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Old 10-09-2009, 09:04 AM   #63
Marc Abrams
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Re: Societal Responsibility

Quote:
William Hazen wrote: View Post
The fact that Alan Greenspan supported these Tax Cuts shows just how bankrupt both Neo-Classical Economics and The Reagan Revolution have become. With disastrous results.

William Hazen
William kindly eluded to the role that Alan Greenspan played in the buildup and collapse of our economic "house of cards." I frankly place a lot of blame directly on his shoulders. He is a well known libertarian who has said on many occasions that government regulations are not necessary in the market place because the greater good of people will outweigh the potential for greed so that the marketplace will self-regulate for the greater good of society.

Alan Greenspan actively fought against regulating the emerging derivatives market, he actively fought against those who wanted to keep the leveraging amount the same with banks, he actively fought against banks entering into more speculative arenas......... Well, the best that we could get out of him when the financial house of cards collapsed was when he said that MAYBE, some of his philosophical beliefs were not accurate. He has yet to step up to the proverbial plate and say, my philosophical understanding were naive, bordering on psychotically wrong. I allowed my philosophical believes to prevent me from accurately assessing reality, and as a direct result of that, I helped to create a financial house of cards that had to collapse upon itself.

I would not hold my breath waiting for that one. He, like many others, walk away from a financial debacle that hurts a gross amount of American citizens to this day, financially secure.

Just another day in paradise.....

Marc Abrams
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Old 10-12-2009, 10:59 AM   #64
jonreading
 
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Re: Societal Responsibility

Nowhere in any post to which I have contributed have I mentioned anything other than my opinion. "The Productivity Burden is another Neo-Classical Economic Myth that was seized by Conservatives..." This is now the second time my opinion has been politicized and used to launch into a tangental partyline political statement.

I guess I misinterpreted this thread as asking for opinions to a question. Unless the answer to the question is Alan Greenspan, I think the thread is not focusing on the discussion:

"In a society such as ours where economic stratification is built into the system is it our collective responsibility to insure that all citizens have a minimum level of guaranteed food, shelter, clothing and healthcare?" "Alan Greenspan destroyed our economy."

Hmmm, nope, just partyline blather; in this case pro-democratic. I'll bow out here.
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Old 10-12-2009, 11:43 AM   #65
David Orange
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Re: Societal Responsibility

Quote:
William Hazen wrote: View Post
After 30 years of consistent attacks...The greatest fear the Conservative Movement has is... That our current President may make the Ideology of Government as a Public Service and a Social Responsibility relevant again.
That sums it up perfectly.

Thanks.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.esotericorange.com
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Old 10-12-2009, 11:45 AM   #66
Aikibu
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Re: Societal Responsibility

Quote:
Jon Reading wrote: View Post
Nowhere in any post to which I have contributed have I mentioned anything other than my opinion. "The Productivity Burden is another Neo-Classical Economic Myth that was seized by Conservatives..." This is now the second time my opinion has been politicized and used to launch into a tangental partyline political statement.

I guess I misinterpreted this thread as asking for opinions to a question. Unless the answer to the question is Alan Greenspan, I think the thread is not focusing on the discussion:

"In a society such as ours where economic stratification is built into the system is it our collective responsibility to insure that all citizens have a minimum level of guaranteed food, shelter, clothing and healthcare?" "Alan Greenspan destroyed our economy."

Hmmm, nope, just partyline blather; in this case pro-democratic. I'll bow out here.
With all due respect I think you misread my post....I was blathering about Economics and it's not my fault the Conservatives tried to make Libertarian Free Market Ideas work in the real world...

Neo-Classical Economics is a school of Economics and not to be confused with Neo-Conservatism which is a school of Political Thought.

The fact you read into this as a "tangential party line statement" means you had an agenda to begin with...After all ...The oldest Political Debate in our 250+ year history is what role Government should play in people's lives...This discussion began with the Federalist Papers and I doubt it will end anytime soon. Indeed I feel it's a sign of just how vibrant our Democracy is that there is more than one answer to this "question".

Of course this is just my "opinion" too.

William Hazen
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Old 10-12-2009, 04:27 PM   #67
Aikibu
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Re: Societal Responsibility

The Productivity Burden California Style...

A great example of how Neo-Classical Economic Theory compares with California's Fiscal Reality.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...4419598.column

William Hazen

Last edited by Aikibu : 10-12-2009 at 04:31 PM.
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Old 10-13-2009, 06:38 AM   #68
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Re: Societal Responsibility

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I don't want to misconstrue this as a particular dig on George W Bush...but he is the only President to cut Taxes during a time of War...
That's called the "Guns and Butter for my buddies and to hell with the rest of you" policy. Works great as long as you're a crony of the guy in charge, otherwise not so much.
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Old 10-15-2009, 12:41 PM   #69
DH
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Re: Societal Responsibility

I just loved one of the headlines this morning
Pelosi admits to wanting to "get back" at private Ins companies by partially funding the Governments competitive Ins plan with 6.7 billion dollars in service fees on to the private Ins companies cost of doing business.
You never try to accomplish everything in one step in government. The trick is to draft legislation to get your foot in the door. As government agencies never go away it is the first step to funnel future monies into this new money pit. In the end we will see an agency that absorbs 50% of our dollar to produce 50% where it is needed,
There is no incentive for efficiency in government as there is in the private sector.

The bill is meant to help some 50M uninsured
What I find interesting is that the uninsured are taken care of in ER's all over. My wife can prescribe drugs and tests for uninsured people far in excess of what she can for those with plans. Who absorbs the cost of that now?
We do?
How?
Hospitals are reimbursed for some; they write off others as overhead and bill it to the private sector as a rate charge. So for most "the problem" is already being taken care of for the poor.
The ones who are hit the hardest are the people with assets who are forced to pay.
That is the meat of the argument
Lets say that ALL of the 50M uninsured are going to now get $15K a year to buy their own Ins (roughly the cost of a first rate family plan in the private sector). That would bring the total bill to us-the taxpayer- to only $75B out of pocket plus government admid. costs.
If we factor that in; build offices, hire directors, hire sections chiefs, and managers, then hire staff and pay for vacations and health benefit and retirement packages, lights, heat, furniture and eventually the pen to write the checks. Let’s say that is going to cost more than the money paid out to actually help someone, let's call it $100B
That’s $175B to solve a problem.
Where does the $1.6 trillion that got reduced to $800B get justified?

This new tactic is incredible. It is a ploy, a first step in a virtual take over of a private industry.
The government wants to start a new widget factory to compete with widget manufacturers, and they are going to fund it by forcing the widget industry to absorb the cost of the government’s competition. This is more very dangerous behavior from a congress out of control.

No, I do not care whether it is conservatives or liberals in office, I hate them both equally for the whores they have become.

Quote:
William Hazen wrote:
I don't want to misconstrue this as a particular dig on George W Bush...but he is the only President to cut Taxes during a time of War...
And for the next three years we had largest income from income tax (in adjusted dollars) in the history of our country

Governer of Massachusetts. "We raised taxes, but recieved $245M less than last year..I dunno what happened?" Same thing happend in RI.
I've never expected we were hiring exceptionally intelligent and honest people, but niether did I expect we were electing idiots.

You can tax corporations with the largest rate world wide and sit there as perplexed as these governers when everyone leaves or refuses to invest here. What has happened is the governement now wants to make it illegal to be an American firm and operate offshore. No small wonder- various companies are opening foreign divisions and are going to just simply- leave.
What is going to happen is so obvious its embarrasing.
Dan

Last edited by DH : 10-15-2009 at 12:55 PM.
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Old 10-15-2009, 01:59 PM   #70
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Societal Responsibility

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
There is no incentive for efficiency in government as there is in the private sector.
I don't think incentive for efficiency is based on whether or not someone is working for the government or for themselves. A person isn't necessarily more dedicated to maximizing efficiency just because they're operating in the private sector and accountability isn't necessarily better either.

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 10-15-2009, 02:21 PM   #71
RonRagusa
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Re: Societal Responsibility

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
That's $175B to solve a problem.
Where does the $1.6 trillion that got reduced to $800B get justified?
Hi Dan -

The $800 billion is over a ten year period, $80 billion per year, less than half of your calculated figure.

Best,

Ron
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Old 10-15-2009, 02:29 PM   #72
Aikibu
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Re: Societal Responsibility

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And for the next three years we had largest income from income tax (in adjusted dollars) in the history of our country
Dan
While this may true on it's face... The fact is That Both War's actual costs were kept off the Books (They were voted on as "supplementals" to the Federal Budget) Again without "disparaging" Bush another first...The Bush Administration could thus claim to have a huge increase in tax revenues while hiding the Actual Real Cost of the War and the equally huge increase in the Federal Deficit...I'll leave it up to you as to their political motive for being fiscally dishonest. LOL So using their figures The Tax Cuts "worked"... We have a name for accounting method in the industry I work in. Hint It starts with "Hollywood". LOL

The REAL result of the "Tax Cuts" being the National Deficit DOUBLED IN EIGHT YEARS.

This Statement Also ignores the Huge Credit Bubble created by The Fed (at one point it was estimated that there was 50 TRILLION US DOLLARS in excess capital/credit world wide) A large part of this can be attributed to the Both the Housing Bubble and the Financial Services Bubble.
This gave Joe Six Pack the (and this is important) appearance of greater wealth due to all that cheap credit/debt aka 'The Wealth Effect." For our Legislative Bodies During that time It made even so called "Fiscal Conservatives' spend like drunken sailors...( a good read on this debacle is Arianna Huffington's book "Pigs at the Trough")

In the 80's it was Greed is Good

This day and age it (still!) is Greed is Good for me and Debt is really good for you aka "Privatize Profit and Socialize Loss."

It goes without saying we're paying the piper and it may be a generation or more before this disaster plays itself out. The Current President may have backed us off a cliff (indeed Private Economic Life is still being destroyed) but as some have argued unless the Government spends money propping up the Private Economy for the next six months Economic Life for most Americans will completely collapse.. We are no more than a step away from the edge of that cliff.

Thank You Alan Greenspan and George W Bush

Mr. Greenspan for at least admitting his Neo;Classic Economic and Libertarian Theories in practice "might" have been wrong and President Bush for proving the Pet Conservative Theory that Government does not work by devoting his entire Presidency to wreaking it. Talk about a circular argument on steroids!

So you may ask What does this have to do with the thread topic? Well...

IF you were way too busy back in the "old days" buying Hummers and Flipping Houses on the (granted... unbeknown to you.) Taxpayer's dime... You had better help us clean up the mess you made...It's a BIG ONE..So big It affects everyone...Like it or not Today I am my brothers economic keeper.

William Hazen
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Old 10-15-2009, 02:46 PM   #73
Aikibu
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Re: Societal Responsibility

Quote:
Matthew Gano wrote: View Post
I don't think incentive for efficiency is based on whether or not someone is working for the government or for themselves. A person isn't necessarily more dedicated to maximizing efficiency just because they're operating in the private sector and accountability isn't necessarily better either.
Another Neo-Classical Economic Myth shattered...Example One There is still 12 BILLION DOLLARS on Money given to Private Firms under Government Contracts in Iraq that is/was "lost".

Example Two. The Senate Voted last week not to award government contracts to those private companies who would not allow rape victims due process under the law but force them instead into company sponsored 'arbitration hearings"...A direct violation of Fifth and Sixth Amendments of the Bill of Rights.

As fantastic as it sounds... 30 (!!!) Conservative Senators voted AGAINST the Amendment...

William Hazen

Last edited by Aikibu : 10-15-2009 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 10-15-2009, 09:09 PM   #74
RonRagusa
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Re: Societal Responsibility

The Guardian Life Insurance Company today canceled every health insurance policy in New York State resembling a policy held by one of their customers who suffers from MS. They would have preferred to cancel just the one policy but had to cancel everyone in order not to run afoul of anti-discrimination laws.

FWIW

Ron
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Old 10-15-2009, 11:22 PM   #75
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Societal Responsibility

Quote:
Ron Ragusa wrote: View Post
The Guardian Life Insurance Company today canceled every health insurance policy in New York State resembling a policy held by one of their customers who suffers from MS. They would have preferred to cancel just the one policy but had to cancel everyone in order not to run afoul of anti-discrimination laws.

FWIW

Ron
Why did they have to cancel someone's policy in the first place? I'm guessing it wasn't because of a lapse in payments.

Gambarimashyo!
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