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Old 08-18-2001, 03:19 AM   #1
shadow
Dojo: Aiki Kun Ren (Iwama style)
Location: Sydney
Join Date: Aug 2000
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How important is weapons training?

how important do you (or your sensei) consider the weapons to be in aikido?
how often do you train formally in weapons?

my sensei a while ago split apart from the main dojo and opened a more independant one of his own. Since that time, the nights of training has been upped to 4 nights a week (damn those cub scouts, stealing our monday nights! hehe well i guess it is their hall) and this now comprises of 1 hour bukiwasa and 1 hour taijutsu. So I now train a lot in weapons (and my aikido has really improved significantly). Not only that, but he has slightly changed the grading syllubus (only for us regularly training at his dojo), just adding weapons components from a very early stage (the rest is the same). By shodan now, it is neccessary to know and demonstrate basically all the aiki-weapons (ken and jo). Makes it a little bit more difficult for us, but i think this is a good thing. What do you think?

happiness. harmony. compassion.
--damien--
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Old 08-18-2001, 08:47 AM   #2
Greg Jennings
Dojo: WPAFB JiuJitsu Group
Location: Springboro, OH
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Re: how important?

Quote:
Originally posted by shadow
What do you think?
A different path up the mountain...

Best Regards,

Greg Jennings
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Old 08-18-2001, 01:37 PM   #3
Anne
Dojo: Kiel University/VfL Fosite Helgoland
Location: Helgoland, Germany
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Do symbol

In our dojo, we practice Shoji Nishio Shihan's style of aikido which means that all techniques have ken/jo equivalents. Nishio Shihan also created Aiki Toho Iai, a iaido style based upon aikido techniques. And since he always points out that in his view you can never understand and practice aikido properly if you don't know how to use a sword, weapons training is a normal part of the lessons. Additionally there is a two hour/week weapons training which consists mainly of Aiki Toho Iai and ken tai ken / ken tai jo.

Anne

"You have to do difficult things to grow." (Shoji Nishio Sensei)
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Old 08-18-2001, 02:09 PM   #4
Jorge Garcia
Dojo: Shudokan School of Aikido
Location: Houston
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In Kato Sensei's style, we also use the bokuto and jo every day and they are a vital component of his aikido. Some of the things we do are for the sole purpose of building the body which Kato sensei says is the first principal of aikido. Others are movements that mirror the techniques while others are to practice maai and body positioning and movement. I have found the misogi-no-jo that we do especially helpful to me in my techniques. Friends that I used to train with in my old dojo 3 years ago have definitely noticed the difference and have stated that my aikido has improved 100 percent since I moved to my new dojo.

"It is the philosophy that gives meaning to the method of training."
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Old 08-18-2001, 05:12 PM   #5
L. Camejo
 
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Dojo: Ontario Martial Arts
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Hi all,

I practice Shodokan Aikido, which is very sport oriented, but Bokken and Jo training are very important in our dojo.

When I began Aikido I realised that weapons practice had a tendency of aiding one's Aikido in ways that may not be experienced without it.

Today, as an Instructor I try to get in at least 1 weapons class a week and encourage students to practice at home.

One benefit that I have experienced is the relationship between consistent suburi training and obtaining a natural feel for Yonko as a direct result. So much, that yonkyo can be readily utlised to begin, or facilitate other techniques such as Shi o Nage, especially under resistance as experienced in randori.

Regards
L.C.

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
http://www.tntaikido.org
http://www.mushinkan.ca
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Old 08-18-2001, 05:14 PM   #6
Richard Harnack
Dojo: Aikido Institute of Mid-America
Location: Maplewood, Missouri
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Triangle Re: how important?

Quote:
Originally posted by shadow
how important do you (or your sensei) consider the weapons to be in aikido?
how often do you train formally in weapons?
...By shodan now, it is neccessary to know and demonstrate basically all the aiki-weapons (ken and jo). Makes it a little bit more difficult for us, but i think this is a good thing. What do you think?
In Seidokan, we have three Ken-gi and three Jo-gi. Shodan are required to demonstrate the first two of each.

As students become more comfortable and controlled in their training we do some paired exercise (Ken-Ken Awase or Jo-Ken Awase). However, these paired exercises are not the same as practiced in Aikikai (Kumitachi and Kumijo).

As is often noted, the drop in Aikido is directly related to the shomenuchi movement from sword work.

It is important in Aikido to remember the Ken and Jo are to train your body and spirit in Aiki, not bludgeon someone else over the head.

Yours In Aiki,
Richard Harnack
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Old 08-19-2001, 09:43 AM   #7
mariko nakamura
Dojo: Dobunkan Japan
Location: Toyama Japan
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Ken and Jo tsuburi in our dojo is practiced everyday. We have a number of awase and kaishi exercises for the ken, and the first half of 43 jo kata is taught immediately to all beginner students. Whenever I have a class with a new student who has never done a particular waza, for example, Kote gaishi, I always work through the tsabaki with the ken first. I feel that the students will grasp a better and maybe a deeper understanding of the waza in practice. Also I think it dramatically improves their sense of distance and timing if you teach them not to watch the Ken, just try to feel the attack instead.

"Men sanely led are not led by duress"
Lao Tzu
(The only true poet)

Mick
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Old 08-27-2001, 10:56 PM   #8
Mares
Location: Australia
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Ahhh you must be with Mic Marelli Sensei, might I just add that he is awesome at weapons, not to mention his taijitsu of course.

My Sensei believes that weapons is important, afterall we are a samurai based martial art and the samurai were known as skilled swordsmen. I have been told, and I am yet to discover it myself, but in practising weapons in particular bokken you are practising taijitsu. As my Sensei says, when doing taijitsu look for weapons and when doing weapons look for taijitsu.

In the past for shodan u needed to do the 13 jo partner practise, ki no musubi not tachi and happo giri 2 ways. Now it has changed to jus the 7 ken suburi and the 21 jo suburi. But Sensei expects it at shodan level. And in my opinion I believe he prefers A+ grade suburi and not know anything else rather than knowing everything at C grade level.

That is my humble understanding of the subject.
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Old 08-27-2001, 11:00 PM   #9
Mares
Location: Australia
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Oops i think that should say ki no musubi no tachi and that should be the 20 jo suburi not to be confused with the 31 jo kata. (or the 21 jo suburi, of which the 21st doesn't exist)
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Old 08-28-2001, 06:14 AM   #10
ian
 
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I think weapons training has benefitted my students enormously because body movement, miai and moving off centre line become more easily understood. However I don't think lots of suburi or kata are necessary (they just make the routine practise more interesting). The basic bokken cut is probably one of the most important excercises in aikido.

Ian
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Old 09-14-2001, 04:36 AM   #11
Rutger
Dojo: Renshin Dojo Geraardsbergen
Location: (Europe) Belgium, Oost-Vlaanderen
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how important?

The use of training in weapons is very important.

O sensei: "Aikido is the expression of the principles of the sword trough the body."

Make sure that when you train with weapons, you handle them as killing tools, BUT! use them to find out the ways of life. So no hurting!

O sensei: "When you are holding a sword, then aikido is a sword; when you are holding a jo, than aikido is a jo."

Aikido is Budo.
It is standing in the centre of your own existance.
It is facing death in all its parts and !learn from it! So you better know your weapons, material as psychological (weapons).
The martial training itself is a tool to come across the secrets of life.

Bart
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Old 09-15-2001, 12:33 AM   #12
Bill D
Location: Los Angeles
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I've heard of weapons training described as practicing using your Ki in handling objects, so that your Ki would extend to everything you're doing.

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Old 09-16-2001, 12:57 PM   #13
akiy
 
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For me, at least, my weapons training has been quite useful for the rest of my aikido training. The concepts that I've learned through the bokken/jo suburi, kumitachi, kumijo, ken-tai-jo, and nitou (two sword) stuff that I've done have given me some insights into things we do empty-handedly -- and vice versa.

Frank Doran sensei once said, "Perform empty-handed techniques as though you were wielding a weapon. Likewise, perform weapons techniques as though you were empty-handed."

-- Jun

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Old 10-02-2009, 04:23 AM   #14
peppi
Location: Plovdiv
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Re: how important?

Quote:
Ian Dodkins wrote: View Post
However I don't think lots of suburi or kata are necessary (they just make the routine practise more interesting). The basic bokken cut is probably one of the most important excercises in aikido.

Ian
Great thought, my opinion is the same.
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Old 10-02-2009, 08:58 AM   #15
sorokod
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Re: how important?

Saito Morihiro sensei attributed this quote to Kaiso Ueshiba:

Quote:
"when doing weapons, you should have the feeling of tai jutsu, and when doing tai jutsu you should have the feeling of doing weapons."

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Old 10-02-2009, 09:27 AM   #16
Aikibu
Dojo: West Wind Dojo Santa Monica California
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Re: How important is weapons training?

Long time student of Shoji Nishio Shihan's Aikido.

Nuff Said.

William Hazen
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Old 10-04-2009, 04:58 PM   #17
sorokod
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Re: How important is weapons training?

From an interview with Rinjiro Shirata. "He" in the quote is the founder (from: http://www.aikidojournal.com/article?articleID=528 ) .

Quote:
He said that the ken and body are the same and the same was the case for the jo. We were taught that the mind is the source and the movement of the body is expressed through the hands which becomes the jo. Thus, the jo is an extension of the mind.

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