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Old 10-09-2009, 12:45 AM   #1
Walter Martindale
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Rolling Up Sleeves

Ok, so, I've done the bad and changed topics on the women's obi thread, so...

Most Aikido dojo I've visited feature people with gi whose sleeves have been either manufactured short or rolled up to mid-forearm or higher.

Back in the 70s Judo changed its rules to require that the sleeve come all the way to the wrist, and be big enough to grab, and now most gi available are "modern" judo gi. When I started judo the gi could be shorter, and some people had their gi tailored to be very tight to the forearm to reduce people's ability to gain a grip.

Back to the point - these rolled up or shorter sleeves are done so people can grab a bare forearm/wrist in katate--dori or kosa-dori (spelling?). Way back, though, I stopped rolling or pulling up my sleeves after my sensei pulled the sleeve back down and gripped around the sleeve. I can't remember the discussion at the time but I THINK it hinged on "out in the street, your sleeves will be down."

So - why do we roll up our gi sleeves?

Walter
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Old 10-09-2009, 01:18 AM   #2
grondahl
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Re: Rolling Up Sleeves

Out in the street I usually don´t wear a dogi at all.

Btw: Most of my dogi have sleeves short enough for uke being able to grab single handed grips without grabbing the sleeve. If my sleeves were to long I would rather cut them of at an appropriate length rather than folding them.

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Walter Martindale wrote: View Post
Way back, though, I stopped rolling or pulling up my sleeves after my sensei pulled the sleeve back down and gripped around the sleeve. I can't remember the discussion at the time but I THINK it hinged on "out in the street, your sleeves will be down."
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Old 10-09-2009, 01:45 AM   #3
Edward
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Re: Rolling Up Sleeves

It's a matter of personal preference. I prefer my sleeves rather short so that they don't impede my arm movements, especially in techniques such as shomenuchi ikkyo. Especially that I live in a hot humid country and the gi tends to cling to the body after just a few minutes of training.
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Old 10-09-2009, 02:12 AM   #4
ChristianBoddum
 
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Re: Rolling Up Sleeves

The tsuka gets caught in the sleeve when doing Aihanmi kt. Nikyo
(with ken).
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Old 10-09-2009, 03:28 AM   #5
crbateman
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Re: Rolling Up Sleeves

I shorten my sleeves to get them out of the way... I already have enough trouble tripping on my hakama...
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Old 10-09-2009, 08:31 AM   #6
Carl Thompson
 
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Re: Rolling Up Sleeves

There is a tradition in some dojos of rolling up the sleeve of an affected arm to indicate injury. Also, if you are practicing sodeguchi-dori (grab to the cuff), shortened sleeves could be a problem.
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Old 10-09-2009, 09:47 AM   #7
DonMagee
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Re: Rolling Up Sleeves

Quote:
Walter Martindale wrote: View Post
Ok, so, I've done the bad and changed topics on the women's obi thread, so...

Most Aikido dojo I've visited feature people with gi whose sleeves have been either manufactured short or rolled up to mid-forearm or higher.

Back in the 70s Judo changed its rules to require that the sleeve come all the way to the wrist, and be big enough to grab, and now most gi available are "modern" judo gi. When I started judo the gi could be shorter, and some people had their gi tailored to be very tight to the forearm to reduce people's ability to gain a grip.

Back to the point - these rolled up or shorter sleeves are done so people can grab a bare forearm/wrist in katate--dori or kosa-dori (spelling?). Way back, though, I stopped rolling or pulling up my sleeves after my sensei pulled the sleeve back down and gripped around the sleeve. I can't remember the discussion at the time but I THINK it hinged on "out in the street, your sleeves will be down."

So - why do we roll up our gi sleeves?

Walter
That's the exact opposite argument that no-gi bjj proponents make. They say on the street you won't have a gi to grab onto and most likely be in shorts and a t-shirt.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 10-09-2009, 09:56 AM   #8
Janet Rosen
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Re: Rolling Up Sleeves

"on the street your sleeves will be down" - I don't often say this about somebody's sensei, but how silly! WHAT MONTH IS IT? One third of the year I'm living in tank tops and sleeveless dresses. In the winter I'm in a honkin' big lined raincoat. In the dojo, my sleeves go up or down depending on one thing only: the temperature in the dojo.

Janet Rosen
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Old 10-09-2009, 09:58 AM   #9
Janet Rosen
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Re: Rolling Up Sleeves

Oh and then there's the opposite - a dojo I visited where I was told in whispers "OH NO don't roll up your gi sleeve, it's a terrible expression of disrespect!!!"
I sooo love "orthodoxy" in dressing rituals....

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Old 10-11-2009, 05:30 PM   #10
Linda Eskin
 
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Re: Rolling Up Sleeves

A Japanese friend (lives here, but originally from Japan) saw my test video last night, and complimented me on the (short) length of my sleeves. He said in Japan the sleeves are typically made shorter, so mine was more traditional. I'm not terribly interested in tradition, but I sure don't like rolling over lumpy, rolled-up thick sleeves, so when I ordered my medium-weight one from Bu Jin I measured the rolled-up sleeves on my heavyweight one, and ordered with that length. Love it. :-)

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Old 10-11-2009, 06:05 PM   #11
Randy Sexton
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Cool Re: Rolling Up Sleeves

I have had my sleeves on my Dogi cut and sewn approximately mid-forearm. In the past I have caught my Bokken in my sleeve many times and now that does not happen. It gets hot working out and the shorter sleeves help keep me cooler. On the street people may or may not have on a jacket or shirt. Also, if you grab the cloth it may tear so I avoid grabbing cloth. I grab the wrist till I feel bone and have a secure grip. I also note the majority of Sensei I have met wear their Dogi sleeves about mid-forearm. I also much prefer the look rather than having long sleeves dangling down or seeing them rolled up which always seem to come down partially and look sloppy, in my opinion.

Doc Sexton

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Old 10-11-2009, 10:02 PM   #12
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Re: Rolling Up Sleeves

I always just thought it was a difference of tournament cut vs (non tournament cut?). I'm not really sure exactly what that means, and I used to compete in karate tournaments. As for respect, I try to always remember to roll my sleeves down when bowing in/out of class. I don't think its anything that is enforced, but I guess I do it for my own practice of resishiki (sp?).

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Old 10-11-2009, 10:23 PM   #13
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Re: Rolling Up Sleeves

I pretty much always roll my sleeves up (except when the dojo is freezing). I find it easier for my parners to grab me, weapons and hands don't get caught in my sleeves and I just don't feel like my motions are impeded. Often I go straight into a weapons class or iaido after aikido and I just find it easier to move with my sleeves rolled up. Another thing is, sometimes our sensei or sempai will try to show something in particular about the arm or wrist. If your sleeves are up already, then one of you isn't trying to hold up your sleeve while trying not to get in the other person's way. I used to get bumps and bruises on my forearms from face falls because my sleeves were a huge bump of fabric, but those don't seem to happen much anymore.

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Old 10-12-2009, 04:22 AM   #14
Carsten Möllering
 
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Re: Rolling Up Sleeves

Quote:
Linda Eskin wrote: View Post
... in Japan the sleeves are typically made shorter, so mine was more traditional.
That's the point.

Carsten
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Old 10-12-2009, 06:02 AM   #15
Peter Goldsbury
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Re: Rolling Up Sleeves

Hello Linda,

Beware of invented traditions.

I have lived here for years and have found that sleeves are no longer or shorter here than anywhere else.

All my aikido equipment comes from Iwata, the people who supply Doshu with his. There is a very nice elderly lady there, who really runs the shop and they will tailor everything to individual requirements.

To me this thread is a no-brainer. If the sleeves are too long, they are either shortened or rolled up.

I have fond memories of the late Kanai Mitsunari Sensei, who always seemed to wear a karate keikogi with long sleeves. (This was in the old NE Aikikai Dojo, near Central Square in Cambridge.) When Kanai Sensei initiated an attack from his uke, in addition to brushing his hair from his face, he would always lift up his sleeve to indicate the required katate-dori attack.

PAG

Quote:
Linda Eskin wrote: View Post
A Japanese friend (lives here, but originally from Japan) saw my test video last night, and complimented me on the (short) length of my sleeves. He said in Japan the sleeves are typically made shorter, so mine was more traditional. I'm not terribly interested in tradition, but I sure don't like rolling over lumpy, rolled-up thick sleeves, so when I ordered my medium-weight one from Bu Jin I measured the rolled-up sleeves on my heavyweight one, and ordered with that length. Love it. :-)

P A Goldsbury
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Old 10-12-2009, 07:50 AM   #16
Linda Eskin
 
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Re: Rolling Up Sleeves

Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote: View Post
Hello Linda,

Beware of invented traditions.

I have lived here for years and have found that sleeves are no longer or shorter here than anywhere else.
Thank you, Peter That is why I just reported it as something my friend said, and not The Way Things Are. That might have been 30 years ago, a regional or particular-art thing, or maybe he just hung around an odd dojo. Sorry if it came across as reporting "how it really is in the Old Country." I should've been more clear.

Agreed. The heck with tradition (on some level). Do what works. (Does that mean I can wear sweats to class now?)

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Old 10-12-2009, 02:22 PM   #17
Walter Martindale
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Re: Rolling Up Sleeves

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
"on the street your sleeves will be down" - I don't often say this about somebody's sensei, but how silly! WHAT MONTH IS IT? One third of the year I'm living in tank tops and sleeveless dresses. In the winter I'm in a honkin' big lined raincoat. In the dojo, my sleeves go up or down depending on one thing only: the temperature in the dojo.
He may not have said exactly "on the street your sleeves will be down" but it may have been more along the lines of - if someone's got long sleeves, they ain't gonna roll them up for you, and you ain't likely to take the time to slide your hand inside their sleeve to get to their forearm - you'll be dealing with what's presented... (the "ain't" is mine - he's got much better grammar than me)

I guess the point was that if you're in a jacket, shirt, or raincoat (or where I come from, down-lined parka), you're not going to roll it up for someone to grab. Nor are you going to expect that someone you're needing to control will take his/her coat sleeve out of the way. If you're training or "in situation" on a hot, sweaty day with sunblock and whatever all over the person you're "working" with, you're not going to wipe your arm (or his/hers) to provide a better grip - you'll end up dealing with whatever you get presented to you. Why not practice with whatever's there, too?

We never know what to wear - we had snow on Friday, and a t-shirt day on Sunday - oh, and that was "outside" - the roof kept the dojo slightly warmer than outside on the cold day, and slightly cooler than outside on the warm day... Love coaching rowing on a bicycle in the snow - not.
Cheers,
Walter

Last edited by Walter Martindale : 10-12-2009 at 02:29 PM.
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Old 10-25-2009, 07:13 PM   #18
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Re: Rolling Up Sleeves

I prefer to have my sleeves rolled up so that people can easily grab my wrist and get a good tight grip.....

But in the beginning I just rolled up my sleeves because my senpai rolled up his and I thought it was the coolest thing.....
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Old 10-26-2009, 01:59 AM   #19
Arashi Kumomura
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Re: Rolling Up Sleeves

I belive techniques are generally easier on a bare wrist. Also, what you'll usually encounter in a combat situation won't be someone wearing sleeves that are as thick as those on a typical gi.

I think, also, that having something like a thick sleeve can impede truly learning a technique. Nikkyo, for instance, I believe works just slightly differently if there's a big sleeve between someone's hand and the other person's wrist area, possibly compromising the technique.

If you can, it would be best to learn with and without the sleeves in the way.

Those are just some of my quick thoughts on the matter. : )
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Old 10-26-2009, 02:43 AM   #20
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Re: Rolling Up Sleeves

Quote from another thread:

Quote:
David Soroko wrote: View Post
Saito Morihiro sensei demonstrates some techniques in kihon from sode guchi dori: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXKg7XBNaZU
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Old 10-26-2009, 09:36 AM   #21
ramenboy
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Re: Rolling Up Sleeves

Quote:
Tara Skarbek wrote: View Post
... in the beginning I just rolled up my sleeves because my senpai rolled up his and I thought it was the coolest thing.....
hahahaha me too. and that was the end of that story!

but now that i think of it, i've got alot more to worry about on the mat than whether or not my sleeves are up or down.
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Old 10-26-2009, 10:27 AM   #22
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Re: Rolling Up Sleeves

Quote:
Jerome Cervantes wrote: View Post
hahahaha me too. and that was the end of that story!

but now that i think of it, i've got alot more to worry about on the mat than whether or not my sleeves are up or down.
Same here It was cool until I got mat burn at one seminar. I hate the canvas covered mats
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Old 10-26-2009, 09:57 PM   #23
Chris Farnham
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Re: Rolling Up Sleeves

I tend to roll up my sleeves in general; not just my gi sleeves. I invariably roll up my sleeves after five minutes whenever I wear a long sleeve shirt. That being said, I usually roll up out of personal comfort but I have been in dojos where they said not to so when in Rome...
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Old 11-04-2009, 06:24 PM   #24
Ketsan
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Re: Rolling Up Sleeves

Our dojo is the only one in our association that rolls its sleeves up and I started it. I don't like the feeling of baggy sleeves dangling off my wrists so I roll my sleeves up and I started doing this when I started Aikido. Since I'm senior it seems that everyone has copied me because nearly everyone in the dojo rolls their sleeves up.

The same thing happened with t-shirts and tenugui.
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Old 11-04-2009, 07:20 PM   #25
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Rolling Up Sleeves

Haven't really paid much attention to it, but I think most folks in my dojo roll their's up. Mine are down and typically within tolerance to Judo/BJJ standards with a Judo Gi. My reason is, I compete and I am just simply used to it this way these days.

I haven't found it to be a issue either way as I can grab the sleeve or the wrist depending on what I want.

If you are really grappling, you don't want the sleeves rolled for safety reasons, it is easy to get fingers caught in them and torqued, so if you are practicing very hard and want short sleeves, it is probably better to shorten them vice roll.

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