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Old 09-03-2009, 08:06 AM   #26
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Inefficiencies in the Aikido Training Method

Quote:
Please note, too, that the title of this thread is "Inefficiencies in the Aikido Training Method". Not - "Why Ellis Amdur has Misunderstood Aikido." That's a side-track.
Yikes....that certainly wasn't my intent...sorry if it came across that way.
Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:06 AM   #27
Erick Mead
 
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Ki Symbol Re: Rococo & Principles

Quote:
Ellis Amdur wrote: View Post
Please refer to: http://www.edgework.info/articles.html Scroll down to Vectors in Aikido (Taikyoku Kuzushi). I worked with the Itten Dojo for several years, distilling all aikido movement into five essential principals.
Interesting approach. Mechanically, I think you were dead on: I note that it maps quite well onto this image I have used as my essential model of the gross stress profile used in aiki:

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/attach...9&d=1215185239

It is basically a model of a "fireplug" body in a torque. Your five categories correspond to orientation of action thus:

Ikkyoku -- the vertical axis of the column
Nikyokyu -- rotation in the horizontal plane
Sankyoku -- spiral along the tension leg of the shear stress line
Yonkykoku -- spiral along the compression leg of the shear stress line
Gokyoku -- linear contact shear (along the tangent to the column)

Interesting, as I say. What I wanted to do with that appreciation was to relate it to the vibrational/oscillatory/wave aspects of proper aiki action, which I have found to be quite well integrated to a model such as this, actually, and are the way in which those larger, grosser movements along those lines of orientation are distilled into something more -- shall we say -- direct, and less rococo.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 09-03-2009, 09:48 AM   #28
chuunen baka
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Re: Inefficiencies in the Aikido Training Method

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Erick Mead wrote: View Post
If you put a phosphor on the hands of two people doing good jiyuwaza in aikido, turned down the lights and recorded the video and preserved all the phosphor traces in one image, what do think it would look like? Hint -- eerily like the rococo image and the Julia set.
Sorry, but anyone who thinks Lissajous curves bear any resemblance to a Julia set shows a very shallow understanding of the maths involved. Apologies for interrupting this rococo squared discussion.
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Old 09-03-2009, 04:31 PM   #29
Erick Mead
 
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Re: Inefficiencies in the Aikido Training Method

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Alastair Rae wrote: View Post
Sorry, but anyone who thinks Lissajous curves bear any resemblance to a Julia set shows a very shallow understanding of the maths involved. Apologies for interrupting this rococo squared discussion.
Hm. You are very certain of this?

Lissajous curves. In simplest form, a first order complex harmonic oscillation, a double pendulum, which I suppose has nothing to do with the stability system of the human body -- or like, its balance control, or let's just say, a collection of compliantly linked multiple (and inverted) pendulums, like, oh maybe, one of these:

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:R...0Man%25202.JPG

Even SIMPLE harmonic oscillators obey fractal scaling laws -- which is why musical intervals are not linear and chaotic "wolf chords" exist.

And I suppose the Julia Set could not possibly be useful in detecting chaotic oscillations in control systems -- like, you know -- your balance -- or anything ...

I would say, that anyone who says on the basis of nominal categories that maths of this sort do not relate to one another has not delved into their respective concrete applications deeply enough.

Aside from that, Lissajous curves show the path of a complex harmonic system actually dissipating in two or three dimensions.

The curves in the Julia set show a dissipative structure in the complex plane -- like the turbulence eddies its forms closely track.

I would call that a basis for "resemblance."

Once we have acknowledged a body of practice as "rococo," to use the term of art we are playing with, we might ask, you know, "Why?" -- before we conclude that aspect of it has no useful purpose or relation to its concrete objectives.

No one has to work on this stuff in this way (or any other way for that matter) unless he wants to -- but do not think it can trivially be dismissed, either.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 09-03-2009, 09:20 PM   #30
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Re: Rococo vs. Principals

Quote:
Ellis Amdur wrote: View Post
Please refer to: http://www.edgework.info/articles.html Scroll down to Vectors in Aikido (Taikyoku Kuzushi). I worked with the Itten Dojo for several years, distilling all aikido movement into five essential principals. So as far as principals of aikido - essential movement vs. "lost in technique" goes - I'd have exactly the tool-set I would want, as far as the "framework" goes - were I to desire to continue aikido as my training method. Given the request that I assist that dojo in developing a training method that pares away as much dross as possible, I did my best, while paying full respect to aikido, the system and martial art that it is (and is not). They asked me to assist them with their aikido - not teach whatever ryu I spend my own practice time doing.
Furthermore, I tried, as best I could, to make this study of vectors into a training modality that could "contain" internal training methodology when the dojo had an opportunity to learn it. Which they have been doing - I'd check out the Itten Dojo http://www.ittendojo.org/ and see how that's been going for them. Personally, I've seen them develop remarkably rapidly, with beginners developing a natural ability to counter off-center technique just through the training.
But me personally? That's not how I want to spend my training time.So I don't. As far as internal training goes, I'm quite happy not trying to fit such training into an aikido context. One less thing to worry about. As I said in HIPS,Circle, Square, Triangle: How to be O-sensei in Sixteen Easy Steps, "But what if you desire the vintage itself. And what if you desire exactly what Ueshiba was brewing?" That last chapter was offered to such people - out a sense of debt that I have, because aikido brought me to Japan, and due to that, my life unfolded the way that it did. But me? I don't want Ueshiba's brew, either in his form, or that of those who followed him. Simple as that.
Please note, too, that the title of this thread is "Inefficiencies in the Aikido Training Method". Not - "Why Ellis Amdur has Misunderstood Aikido." That's a side-track. The core questions are:
1. What are your goals that you hope to achieve in doing aikido?
2. Is your method of training the best way to achieve those goals?
Best
Ellis Amdur
OFT:

Ellis, have you find a Chinese internal arts teacher? I read the piece on you in a recent Asian Martial Arts Journal, which had to do with Aikido ( nice piece and pics by the way ), and you said you had not found a qualified teacher of Chinese internal arts. But you did mentioned Mike Sigman as a friend and you have discussed Chinese internal arts with him. It is nice of Mike to share with you until you find an instructor. Have you found a qualified instructor yet?

To everyone, if you can get the issue with Ellis in it, I seen it on the store shelf around the middle of this August, I highly recommend it.
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Old 09-03-2009, 10:28 PM   #31
Ellis Amdur
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Re: Inefficiencies in the Aikido Training Method

I've had several Chinese internal MA teachers over the years. What and who I'm training with now is something I am keeping private at this time. Simply put, because the book (and me) have become public, those people could get judged by what I accomplish, what I say, and what I can & cannot do. If and when my skill gets to a decent level, then I will happily fully credit my teachers. Suffice it to say that I train - very actively in my koryu and very actively in core body skills. I may still have opinions to offer on this thread. Or questions to answer on the training method (taikyoku kuzushi) that I just mentioned above. But I've fully answered any information related to the quote above. I will not respond to any more questions about me in this thread. That's not the subject
Ellis Amdur

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Old 09-04-2009, 03:49 AM   #32
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Re: Inefficiencies in the Aikido Training Method

I guess I'll go ahead and throw my opinions into the ring.

In my experience, Aikido isn't something you would want to take into a UFC ring. Or any ring, for that matter. The basic, underlying precept is to resolve a conflict as peacefully as possible, with a minimum amount of damage to both parties. The way *most* devoted aikidoka would deal with a fight situation would be to walk away from it, if possible. Peaceful resolution of conflict, with no injury to either party. The exact opposite of the idea behind UFC, boxing, and similiar competitions.

The principles of Aikido are universal, and can be applied under any circumstances. Most of the applications, however, fall beyond the scope of competetive fighting such as boxing or UFC- primarily because the traditional way of winning said competitions is by doing enough damage that your opponent cannot continue to fight. Applying Aikido into such situations is a bit like putting a square peg into a round hole. Yes, you can try to force it in, and might even work sometimes, but it was designed with a different purpose in mind- dealing with an attacker without harming them, if possible.
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Old 09-04-2009, 05:31 AM   #33
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Re: Inefficiencies in the Aikido Training Method

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Wayne Miller wrote: View Post
I guess I'll go ahead and throw my opinions into the ring.

The basic, underlying precept is to resolve a conflict as peacefully as possible, with a minimum amount of damage to both parties.

but it (aikido) was designed with a different purpose in mind- dealing with an attacker without harming them, if possible.
Does the usual aikido training methods lead to that?

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Old 09-04-2009, 09:10 AM   #34
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Re: Inefficiencies in the Aikido Training Method

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Erick Mead wrote: View Post
(snipped)
Aside from that, Lissajous curves show the path of a complex harmonic system actually dissipating in two or three dimensions.

The curves in the Julia set show a dissipative structure in the complex plane -- like the turbulence eddies its forms closely track.

I would call that a basis for "resemblance."

Once we have acknowledged a body of practice as "rococo," to use the term of art we are playing with, we might ask, you know, "Why?" -- before we conclude that aspect of it has no useful purpose or relation to its concrete objectives.

No one has to work on this stuff in this way (or any other way for that matter) unless he wants to -- but do not think it can trivially be dismissed, either.
Well, as the poet said, a little learning is a dangerous thing. You can assemble a collection of words and google for a bunch of articles that contain some of your key words, but sophistry doesn't prove very much. It certainly has scant relevance to Aikido.
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:32 AM   #35
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Re: Inefficiencies in the Aikido Training Method

Alastair, are you this Alastair?

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Old 09-04-2009, 09:37 AM   #36
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Re: Inefficiencies in the Aikido Training Method

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Erick Mead wrote: View Post
No one has to work on this stuff in this way (or any other way for that matter) unless he wants to -- but do not think it can trivially be dismissed, either.
Why not? I can trivially dismiss things if I so choose. Let's say I'm getting advice from multiple Ph.D. level physicists and engineers with 20 plus years of work history and they are telling me they can't come up with any kind of equations to define what I'm showing them. And let's say that there's another person who doesn't have a degree in physics, hasn't worked in the field, and is stating basic theories that really aren't applicable to what I'm showing. Why is it that I can't trivially dismiss the latter based upon solid, professional advice of the former?
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:51 AM   #37
Michael Fitzgerald
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Re: Inefficiencies in the Aikido Training Method


I tried to post a response to a comment by Ellis which mentioned what one's goals were assessed to be, and what training methods were employed to reach these goals.
I got carried away with my own genius, and ended up taking too long (locked out of session!!!)
What I wanted to say was (even less poetic that than my first attempt)

Ellis made a comment about Aikido as a Martial art "sorely lacking" -
I understood immediately (or thought I did) but I was also disappointed.

I can imagine that if one had no actual experience in getting their butt out of real life/ death or serious trouble- then Aikido training might not help them much. In fact, it might be a bit misleading.

however,

for me, I have had enough experience in bad situations, dangerous ones at times, that I feel that the Aikido training I have recently come to partake in is something that ca keep my edge sharp.

I am not in class to develop a 'killer' mentality- I have enough of that thank you. Likewise, i am not there to learn the majick technique- just to practice moving in ways that (I feel) I can use to my advantage should I be unlucky enough to get to test them.

so:
Inefficient?
probably, if you don't know what you're looking for/ know what it's like and how ugly it can be.

ineffective?
If you are.

works for me?
yup. Good teacher, enough experience to not get seduced off into dancy-land, and to keep my mind focused on looking for the value.

am I having a ball reading/ talking with such experienced people?
why yes, thank you very much I am.

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Old 09-04-2009, 10:07 AM   #38
Erick Mead
 
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Re: Inefficiencies in the Aikido Training Method

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Alastair Rae wrote: View Post
Well, as the poet said, a little learning is a dangerous thing. You can assemble a collection of words and google for a bunch of articles that contain some of your key words, but sophistry doesn't prove very much. It certainly has scant relevance to Aikido.
Ah, so authoritative. Reductio ad internetum? I don't care what books you may or may not write -- the bio-mechanics of Aiki and its action is not "textbook" by anyone's measure. If my work on these mechanical points is flawed, please feel free to point out the error.

Either rebut the factual connections asserted or don't, but assumption of the mantle of authority in an area that is still developing means worse than nothing -- facts and causal connections mean everything. Facile implications of "Shut up, he explained" can only hinder others from their own exploration of the mechanics in play, which NO ONE has yet authoritatively described.

Which substantive fact, pray tell, is your statement intended rebut?

1) That human balance is a system subject to chaotic oscillations?
2) That the human structure is system of multiple pendulums ?
3) That multiple pendulums have chaotic dynamics ?
3) That complex harmonics are described by Lissajous figures ?
4) That complex harmonics can be chaotic ?
5) That Julia Set may described the departure of oscillatory control systems into chaos?

Each of those statements alone is not rebutted by any facts. As a collection they relate plainly to one another, and to the action of aiki -- such that further exploration of those connections is warranted. I have said nothing more.

I must have missed the evidence negating each of these points because I failed to read your statement closely enough. Please elaborate, since I am but a poor internet-addled fool, easily confused by the sophistry of physics.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 09-04-2009, 10:27 AM   #39
chuunen baka
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Re: Inefficiencies in the Aikido Training Method

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Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
Alastair, are you this Alastair?
Same spelling but different person.
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Old 09-04-2009, 10:28 AM   #40
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Re: Inefficiencies in the Aikido Training Method

in general,
winning arguments by attrition isn't really winning them at all.
..it could just mean people don't care enough to correct you, or to show you your error...or indeed, and even worse that the whole precept is flawed from the foundation upwards, and the answer is 'mu'. you have asked the wrong questions.
in general.

that said; sometimes a win is a win; like if you're a lawyer and a client pays you...or in a war. Victories in wars of attrition are indeed victories in the truest sense, but they aren't a means to finding the truth.

this is paraphrased from Gerard t'Hooft and what and how he feels and responds to the General Theories of Everything he invariably receives weekly

Last edited by thisisnotreal : 09-04-2009 at 10:31 AM.
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Old 09-04-2009, 10:59 AM   #41
Erick Mead
 
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Re: Inefficiencies in the Aikido Training Method

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Mark Murray wrote: View Post
Why not? I can trivially dismiss things if I so choose. Let's say I'm getting advice from multiple Ph.D. level physicists and engineers with 20 plus years of work history and they are telling me they can't come up with any kind of equations to define what I'm showing them.
"There is no equation -- you must be wrong." A strawman. It assumes that an equation in this area is useful as the first tool of reference.

Did I say these are approached by use of equations? Did I not give you concrete models and images, and video to see, touch and watch operate to illustrate the outline of what I am exploring ? I claim no authority but what reason and informed eyesight make.. And you never took partial differential equations, I am guessing.

I'll tell you that equations aren't that useful, yet, but I will tell you what they will look like when we get to that point. We are talking about stuff closer to Navier-Stokes treatment (if not explicitly subject to Navier-Stokes, which is entirely possible as they have a surprising range of utility, outside of strict fluid flow where they originated). Unlike other mechnical equations, their primary operative quantity is not position and trajectory -- but velocity.

For a novel behavior or structure you have to locate an approximate solution empirically, and only then can you narrow it to a more precise set of solutions (assuming you have a valid set of relationships defined by equation -- which is itself developed from a earlier set of verified empirical observations.) Even known stable solutions are extremely scale sensitive and if the scale ratios change turbulence (chaotic motion) often results. (Does attention to the precision of maai make bit more sense in that light, perhaps?)

That empirical work has not yet been done for this stuff -- but what I am talking about is laying out the categories of information that are notably observable so as to have things to collect empirically, so that , at some point a more general mathematical might be done. My gut says that an application of Navier-Stokes is the way to bet, but that remains to be seen.

Meanwhile the use of good intuitive physical behavior models is still useful, just as it was to the first aviators, like Lilienthal, or Bleriot, or Dunne, who designed and flew at the same time they were collecting the data to more generally describe the outlines of good design -- then ultimately refined the locus of demonstrated designs by the Navier-Stokes equations.

With a practical background in aviation, and aerodynamics, I will tell you that the Navier-Stokes equations, immensely useful in practical aerodynamic design and testing, still pose some of the most challenging unresolved questions in mathematics. A mathematician literally cannot tell you if they are always correct. And yet they get used every day -- and these days by computational simulation to speed the process of empirical refinement.

We are talking about mechanics of that order. I could be accused of having hammer and making the problem a nail, but it looks awfully nail-like even without consideration of my hammer. One look at the essential aspects of aiki action, its emphasis on smoothness of flow, vorticity (spiraling), variable angular velocity and variable viscosity (stiffness) of connections, of parts with many degrees of freedom, should tell you we are in the same neighborhood of physical behaviors as those addressed by Navier-Stokes, in terms of both maths and modeling.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
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Old 09-04-2009, 11:31 AM   #42
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Re: Inefficiencies in the Aikido Training Method

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Josh Phillipson wrote: View Post
in general,
winning arguments by attrition isn't really winning them at all.
..it could just mean people don't care enough to correct you, or to show you your error...or indeed, and even worse that the whole precept is flawed from the foundation upwards, and the answer is 'mu'. you have asked the wrong questions.
in general.

that said; sometimes a win is a win; like if you're a lawyer and a client pays you...or in a war. Victories in wars of attrition are indeed victories in the truest sense, but they aren't a means to finding the truth.

this is paraphrased from Gerard t'Hooft and what and how he feels and responds to the General Theories of Everything he invariably receives weekly
Winning? Who is fighting? I've been working through these issues steadily, here, elsewhere and in the dojo. Not a bit of fighting to it. "Ttheory of everything" , and here I thought I was just working toward the heretofore poorly described mechanics of Aiki. Ah, now I see my error. I was too narrow in my conception. I will henceforth incorporate quarks and black holes ...

No one is obligated to correct me, much less respond. Someone gratuitously undertakes what they assume to be a broadside deck-clearing dismissal, because they clearly have not thought the issues through. I state the case they too easily assume that I have not even thought about -- because I actually have, at some length.

I don't solicit agreement but I do not easily brook uninformed criticism - mainly because it is not useful. Rather, I attempt to inform the criticism so as to invite more, and more pointed (and more useful) criticism. I live in a professional world in which being wrong is not a sin, but part of a process of discovery of truth, when potential error is examined closely. I was under the impression that the discovery of error increases the level of knowledge all around. I think it would be immensely informative for me and everyone to be shown how wrong I am, and where exactly. Is it not part of this discussion forum to raise the level of knowledge on "aikido information"?

Should such a substantive response be inappropriate while the unreflective backhand is unremarkable ?

Cordially,

Erick Mead
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Old 09-04-2009, 11:42 AM   #43
Erick Mead
 
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Re: Inefficiencies in the Aikido Training Method

Further adventures in Reductio ad Internetum---

Gerard t'Hooft:

"If you really want to contribute to our theoretical understanding of physical laws - and it is an exciting experience if you succeed! - there are many things you need to know. First of all, be serious about it!"

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 09-04-2009, 11:56 AM   #44
raul rodrigo
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Re: Inefficiencies in the Aikido Training Method

Erick is right in that there is no need to respond or correct him. His formulation is his formulation.
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Old 09-04-2009, 02:33 PM   #45
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Re: Inefficiencies in the Aikido Training Method

Julia sets? Lissajous? Related?

Not quite the point I think.

The curves are pretty and pretty suggestive but show nothing of the dynamics! They trace out the path taken but besides that where is the mojo? Julia sets on the other hand are set in phase space which combines both location (the paths) and the velocity (movement, if you will) which goes considerably further in illuminating the dynamics. Even if the display were to show the paths and the motion along those paths it is kind of hard to get the bigger picture. It is a matter of perspective - take the dynamic system under study but instead of the paths and motions of same look at it in phase space and you get a different perspective of the same thing that now maybe it is very easy to get an inkling of the bigger picture.

Despite the fancy business of fractals and the fuzzy boundary there are definitely those that are outside (not members of the set) and those that are definitely on the inside but there is a lot of wiggle room for those in between and no clear defined line to cross.

For a dynamical system to be classified as chaotic, it must have the following properties:
1. it must be sensitive to initial conditions,
2. it must be topologically mixing, and
3. its periodic orbits must be dense.
For those with the ‘urge’ good luck in you efforts! Plenty of fun to be had down that path.

Thanks

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
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Old 09-04-2009, 02:36 PM   #46
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Re: Inefficiencies in the Aikido Training Method

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote: View Post
SNIP
quarks and black holes ...
Just how many quarks fit into a black hole?

Just because some can ask a question does not mean it can be answered! Of course, don't let that stop anyone from trying. Rage against the machine!

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

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Old 09-04-2009, 05:37 PM   #47
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Re: Inefficiencies in the Aikido Training Method

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Robert M Watson Jr wrote: View Post
Just how many quarks fit into a black hole?
You can ask Chuck Norris. He acutally filled a black hole with quarks. Twice. Until it collapsed due to the high throughput.
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Old 09-04-2009, 05:47 PM   #48
Erick Mead
 
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Re: Inefficiencies in the Aikido Training Method

Quote:
Robert M Watson Jr wrote: View Post
The curves are pretty and pretty suggestive but show nothing of the dynamics!
For a dynamical system to be classified as chaotic, it must have the following properties:
1. it must be sensitive to initial conditions,
2. it must be topologically mixing, and
3. its periodic orbits must be dense.
.................
They trace out the path taken but besides that where is the mojo?
Those three elements, which are nicely summarized, BTW -- to my mind -- also define takemusu aiki. The "mojo" lies in seeing or sensing the instantaneous (and numerous and invariant) departure points from scale to scale within the attractor at any given point. [Spoiler for the mechanics-weary eyes] [spoiler] If my proposition that aiki obeys Navier-Stokes type mechanics is correct then the topologically mixing criteria applies The chief route into empirical examination of such a system is to define its dimension-less scaling factor, the Reynolds number.

Changing scales -- from small to large and large to small simultaneously on different planes creates chaotic disturbance in control systems of the Navier-Stokes type, as reducing the vortex size over a wing below its critical point causes lift to drop non-linearly -- forming many, many turbulent sub-vortices (stall).

This is done in aiki on two orthogonal planes (juuji)simultaneously, and inversely. This co-planar transformation is the basis of the traditional asagao image, opening and closing of the morning glory blossom. It widens transversely as it shortens longitudinally and is continuously reversible on two cusps. That does a more than fair job -- in topological terms -- of capturing a homeomorphism in two planes.

The analog to the chaotic turbulence aerodynamic stall in aiki is the sudden asagao transform at contact. This throws inverse shear waves into uke's structure, along two different planes simultaneously -- creating a uncompensated rotation (kuzushi) or a pinned moment (osae) commencing in the third plane.

The waza of the Aikido canon are fair sketches of the correct forms of action along these lines in very specific settings. As with any sketch, the difference between gross caricature and verisimilitude is immediately apparent -- though hard to define.

If correct in form and in the progressive period shortening (to furitama rhythm) that alters the scales of action across coordinate planes they create resonant collapse or transform rotations -- aided by an overcompensated and chaotically befuddled spinal reflex extensor/flexor system, triggered by the gamma motor neurons/golgi tendon organs.[/spoiler]

In terms of the thread topic then I see my approach to these issues tending to make learning more efficient, and have adopted them accordingly with variations of examining self-similar aspects of the universe of aiki action.

1) In one set of lessons I will follow an 'evolutionary' prgression from operative elements (in wholly different setting) that then in one traverse make a canon waza.

2) In one set of lessons I will follow a single common element through several very different-seeming waza.

3) In another set of lessons I will examine the branch points of each and every stage of any given waza, showing many roads of departure from any given position and the conditions that lead to one or a another road in preference to the rest.

4) In another set of lessons I will emphasize the "stability dynamics" evident in various Aiki taiso and how they are deployed within various waza, and or in any other setting where the aiki taiso appear particularly evident I will point it out

5) In another set of lessons, I will work through the various types of oscillation and how they affect the body in terms of its sensitivity and reactions. Typically, this is done in kokyu tanden, but also in things like sumiotoshi, or iriminage, or from a lapel grab or just buckling someone from a chummy hand on the opposite shoulder.

6) In another set of lessons I will show how maai changes techniques from one to another and how they relate based on those changes of scale.

The practical reasons I have for some intuitive appeal at the idea of an attractor (like, but not necessarily coincident to the Julia set) being in play, comes from the way in which the teaching process I have adopted has played out:

1) When I work this way, no matter where I start, it almost always goes someplace interesting and useful,
2) I have not yet repeated myself, yet.
3) I have no set lesson plan and yet it comes together on its own from a single seed idea that starts me off
4) I rarely if ever find myself at a loss for what to do next
5) I always have three or four things I wanted to do next but ran out of time to try.
6) though I did not plan it, some overarching connection always ties the individual exercises together like a string of pearls with the others -- which is easily summarized at the end of class, though I could not have told you exactly what it would be when we started.
7) This teaching process feels very similar to the takemusuaiki coherent spontaneity the art strives for, so self-similarity is palpably present.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 09-04-2009, 05:50 PM   #49
Erick Mead
 
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Dojo: Big Green Drum (W. Florida Aikikai)
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Re: Inefficiencies in the Aikido Training Method

Quote:
Alejandro Villanueva wrote: View Post
You can ask Chuck Norris. He acutally filled a black hole with quarks. Twice. Until it collapsed due to the high throughput.
Naaaah. Ya got it backwards

The way I heard it, Chuck Norris stuffed a quark with a black hole -- and made a whole new universe of pain ...


Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:44 PM   #50
Buck
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Re: Inefficiencies in the Aikido Training Method

Quote:
Ellis Amdur wrote: View Post
I've had several Chinese internal MA teachers over the years. What and who I'm training with now is something I am keeping private at this time. Simply put, because the book (and me) have become public, those people could get judged by what I accomplish, what I say, and what I can & cannot do. If and when my skill gets to a decent level, then I will happily fully credit my teachers. Suffice it to say that I train - very actively in my koryu and very actively in core body skills. I may still have opinions to offer on this thread. Or questions to answer on the training method (taikyoku kuzushi) that I just mentioned above. But I've fully answered any information related to the quote above. I will not respond to any more questions about me in this thread. That's not the subject
Ellis Amdur
Thank you for answering my questions. You had a great exposure and opportunities providing a perspective that has been widely publicized in that is the inefficiencies in Aikido's training methods. I don't think there is anyone who is as recognized and prolific as you on the subject. You may really be the first such person to openly discuss Aikido as you do. I don't think there is anyone at the forefront or have your expertise with the inefficiencies in the Aikido Training Method. You have expertise in Koryu, as well as rarity in its self. That is why I asked you. I hope you don't feel my questions are personally intrusive, but rather the opportunity to seriously discuss your new comments and thoughts.

It is greatly appreciated that you have responded.
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