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Old 08-27-2009, 02:12 PM   #1
John Longford
Dojo: Cambridge Aikido, Cambridge UK
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Aggressive Posting

I have just been reading through the posts on the latest Seagal Seagal thread. This is not the first time that I have been appalled by the extremely nasty personal attacks on fellow members. Are some of you really Aikidoka?
Over the time there have been a lot of replies that I do not agree with and some do annoy me but unless I have something constructive to say or can question the opinion of the writer politely I refrain from answering.
Perhaps I am wrong what do you think?
Incidentally I first learnt the 24 hour rule in business. When I received a letter that really wound me up (and trust me, in the construction industry there are plenty of those) I waited 24 hours before replying.
"It is better to keep quiet and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and confirm it"
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Old 08-27-2009, 02:17 PM   #2
gdandscompserv
 
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Re: Aggressive Posting

John,
Of course you are right. But who are you to tell me how to behave you %^$87$#@ *(%^^$#.
Ricky
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Old 08-27-2009, 02:22 PM   #3
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Aggressive Posting

Hi John,

Yes, you are right. And some of us forget ourselves in the heat of the moment, and that 24 hour rule goes right out the window.

I think all we can do is each one of us regulate ourselves, and perhaps gently remind each other as you are doing here.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 08-27-2009, 02:57 PM   #4
Michael Douglas
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Re: Aggressive Posting

also ... it'd be a slow thread if every reply takes 24 hours ...
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Old 08-27-2009, 02:59 PM   #5
Marc Abrams
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Re: Aggressive Posting

John:

1) This forum is a place for people to express their opinions. Opinions are like rectums, and funnily enough, we can all act like them (myself included .

2) When you ask if some of us are Aikidoka, it begs the question as to how you define what an Aikidoka is and is not?

I for one, enjoy a vigorous debate, just as much as I like intense training experiences. However, things work themselves out in an intense training environment that simply cannot be "vetted" on an internet forum. This is particularly the case when people claim hidden "magic" that they are "forbidden" to reveal to outsiders. This may be the case if you are a member of a formal koryu, but no such thing exists in Aikido. Another class of cases occur when people make claims about things and/or throw out data as though they have some understanding as to what they are saying AND DO NOT OWN UP TO A LACK OF EXPERIENCE, KNOWLEDGE,.....

I would agree that the name calling can get ridiculous at times and people need to cool down at times. This process sometimes serves to weed out "wheat from the chafe." This can also be beneficial. Ultimately, it seems that those who have been around the forums for significant periods of time end up finding ways to discuss serious topics in meaningful manners, even if that means agreeing to disagree.

Ricky:

I'm with you dude! One of my sayings (egotistically called Marcisms) is "Life is too serious to take seriously!" Rock On Dude !

Marc Abrams
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Old 08-27-2009, 04:27 PM   #6
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Aggressive Posting

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
One of my sayings (egotistically called Marcisms) is "Life is too serious to take seriously!" Rock On Dude !

Marc Abrams
Marc! I am dismayed. That saying is clearly a plagiarized form of the famous Mattism: "Life is the only thing so serious you cannot take it seriously." Now I must seriously insist you cease and desist usage or I could very well whine and complain a lot!
You have been warned!
Matt

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 08-27-2009, 04:42 PM   #7
ninjaqutie
 
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Re: Aggressive Posting

You all are a hoot.... HAHA... who says hoot anymore.... LOL

~Look into the eyes of your opponent & steal his spirit.
~To be a good martial artist is to be good thief; if you want my knowledge, you must take it from me.
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Old 08-27-2009, 05:02 PM   #8
gdandscompserv
 
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Re: Aggressive Posting

Quote:
Ashley Carter wrote: View Post
You all are a hoot.... HAHA... who says hoot anymore.... LOL
Who gives a hoot who says hoot anymore?
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Old 08-27-2009, 05:23 PM   #9
Buck
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Re: Aggressive Posting

Quote:
John Longford wrote: View Post
I have just been reading through the posts on the latest Seagal Seagal thread. This is not the first time that I have been appalled by the extremely nasty personal attacks on fellow members. Are some of you really Aikidoka?
Over the time there have been a lot of replies that I do not agree with and some do annoy me but unless I have something constructive to say or can question the opinion of the writer politely I refrain from answering.
Perhaps I am wrong what do you think?
Incidentally I first learnt the 24 hour rule in business. When I received a letter that really wound me up (and trust me, in the construction industry there are plenty of those) I waited 24 hours before replying.
"It is better to keep quiet and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and confirm it"
Yea....that is a problem, I know what you mean. It is sad that things take such an ugly and unsavory turn. And the problem isn't taken serious or treated seriously by some.
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Old 08-27-2009, 10:09 PM   #10
Abasan
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Re: Aggressive Posting

Well someone's gotta supply the discord if any of you losers are going to practice harmony, you can't exactly practice achieving harmony when everyone's hanky dory rite?

Draw strength from stillness. Learn to act without acting. And never underestimate a samurai cat.
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Old 08-27-2009, 10:47 PM   #11
aikidoc
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Re: Aggressive Posting

It is one thing to vigorously debate an issue or idea and quite another to attack someone personally without even knowing them.
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Old 08-28-2009, 12:28 AM   #12
Michael Hackett
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Re: Aggressive Posting

That ol' Texas boy is right! The former requires intellect and the latter requires hubric vitreol.

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
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Old 08-28-2009, 03:00 AM   #13
Rabih Shanshiry
 
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Re: Aggressive Posting

Quote:
Ashley Carter wrote: View Post
You all are a hoot.... HAHA... who says hoot anymore.... LOL
I think the term these days is woot. Don't ask me what it means.
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Old 08-28-2009, 06:41 AM   #14
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Aggressive Posting

Of course, I'll also always remember a sig line from Chas Clements over at rec.martial-arts newsgroup...

Quote:
a bunch of martial artists got together and a fight broke out...quelle surprise...


Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 08-28-2009, 10:25 AM   #15
John Longford
Dojo: Cambridge Aikido, Cambridge UK
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Re: Aggressive Posting

Hi Michael,
It would indeed be a slow thread if everyone waited 24 hours. I simply suggested that if a post really winds you up that you wait and calm down before replying.
Marc,
I also enjoy a good debate but name calling is not debating. When someone does that they are in essence saying: "Only my opinion counts. If you disagree then you must be an idiot"
When I asked if some on the writers were really Aikidoka it is because I expect an Aikidoka to be polite and respect others. Surely this is a basic tenet of any Dojo.
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Old 08-29-2009, 05:29 AM   #16
Mark Uttech
Dojo: Yoshin-ji Aikido of Marshall
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Re: Aggressive Posting

Onegaishimasu. Getting our buttons pushed is the life experience.
In gassho,

Mark

- Right combination works wonders -
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Old 08-29-2009, 07:09 AM   #17
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Aggressive Posting

YOU GOT SOMETHING TO SAY "MARK". HUH? Do Ya?

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Old 08-29-2009, 09:07 AM   #18
Marc Abrams
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Re: Aggressive Posting

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
YOU GOT SOMETHING TO SAY "MARK". HUH? Do Ya?
Oh Kevin,

Your village style of "Type-Fun Fu" is weak. I have been studying at six schools of strong Type-Fun Fu and spend all day in severe, austere practice with websurf combat. I know how to defeat your keyboard easily by citing web facts that will both confuse, impress and disable you!

Marc Abrams
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Old 08-29-2009, 11:07 AM   #19
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Aggressive Posting

yeah...Marc..you just wanna get inside my OODA loop with your Type-Fun-Fu with all those facts. Heck you don't even need facts, opinions and red herrings work just as well.

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Old 08-29-2009, 11:54 AM   #20
Marc Abrams
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Re: Aggressive Posting

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
yeah...Marc..you just wanna get inside my OODA loop with your Type-Fun-Fu with all those facts. Heck you don't even need facts, opinions and red herrings work just as well.
OH NO!

Not the dreaded red herring ! I have been defeated at last........

Marc Abrams
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Old 08-29-2009, 01:10 PM   #21
DonMagee
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Re: Aggressive Posting

What's with all the straw man tactics in this thread?

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 08-30-2009, 09:30 AM   #22
Kent Enfield
 
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Re: Aggressive Posting

Quote:
John Longford wrote: View Post
Are some of you really Aikidoka?
As opposed to the boors, degenerates, and general assholes who practice other martial arts?

Kentokuseisei
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Old 08-30-2009, 09:56 AM   #23
David Orange
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Re: Aggressive Posting

Quote:
John Longford wrote: View Post
I have just been reading through the posts on the latest Seagal Seagal thread. This is not the first time that I have been appalled by the extremely nasty personal attacks on fellow members. Are some of you really Aikidoka?
John, I have to admit that I, myself, got a bit carried away with some of my remarks on that thread but I made a real effort to limit my critique to Seagal's movies and not his character as a person. I did not always succeed in that. For one thing, I didn't notice that the title was "Steven Seagal seems like a jerk teacher".

Anyway, my main point was that Seagal had seriously abused aikido and the general public by presenting our art backward and portraying it as just another way to express hateful personal superiority over all. It stinks to me and I wanted to express that, and I did, to some displeasure from some other people.

The truth is, there have been many "greats" in aikido, including some of the head teachers in the main line of aikikai, who were known as brutal jerks who liked to hurt people but even those people would never have dreamed of presenting aikido on a large public scale in the way Seagal has done, for personal profit, so I felt obliged to point out that difference in clear terms.

Quote:
John Longford wrote: View Post
Over the time there have been a lot of replies that I do not agree with and some do annoy me but unless I have something constructive to say or can question the opinion of the writer politely I refrain from answering.
Perhaps I am wrong what do you think?
You seem like a pretty reasonable fellow, I think. However, some situations call for a bit of unreasonableness and part of my intent was to elicit some of the very kinds of responses I got from people who had trained directly with Seagal so that we could see some of the contents of their minds and ponder what part Steven Seagal's transmission had played in developing such minds and attitudes. I got pretty much what I wanted and expected to see and it's now out there for all to see.

Quote:
John Longford wrote: View Post
"It is better to keep quiet and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and confirm it"
You're right. Of course, when making movies that will last for decades, if not centuries, I think even more discretion is called for.

Best to you.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.esotericorange.com
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Old 08-31-2009, 06:15 AM   #24
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Aggressive Posting

Hi David,

I think you know that I like and respect you, but I can't say that I can support your tactics in that thread. The fact of the matter is that I have met Shaun, and I don't think the behavior you created in that thread says anything about his relationship with a former instructor. You just showed that everyone has buttons, and that when pushed hard enough, those buttons work.

Frankly, I was very disappointed. I personally think you owe Shaun an appology. Not for your opinions. But for your behavior.

Best,
Ron (not that what I think should matter to you)

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 08-31-2009, 10:27 AM   #25
John Longford
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Re: Aggressive Posting

Hi David,
I only mentioned the Seagal thread because that was the latest one in which I felt the postings were getting out of hand. I have never met him so I do not have any particular views on the man although I must admit I was surprised at the slagging off his movies got. Guys they are just films. I enjoyed his early films, it made a change to see Aikido on the screen. His later films are absolute rubbish.
How many of you rate Enter the Dragon? I know I do and it is probably responsible for more people taking up martial arts at the time than anything else. If you analyse it too much, however, it is just a very violent revenge movie.
Anyway, I digress, let's just keep it civilized
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