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Old 08-19-2009, 02:48 PM   #1
matrixdutch
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Looking For A Combative Oriented Aikido School in NY

Hello,

I currently study Muay Thai and Pekiti Tirsia. I live on Long Island am looking for an aikido school that emphasizes the self defense aspect. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

edit: I am also willing to travel into the Manhattan area as well

Last edited by matrixdutch : 08-19-2009 at 02:53 PM. Reason: addition
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Old 08-19-2009, 03:59 PM   #2
Marc Abrams
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Re: Looking For A Combative Oriented Aikido School in NY

John:

I would think that studying Muay Thai and a style of Kali would satisfy your desires for "combative" martial arts.

I think that you should visit a number of Aikido dojos and try some classes in order to gain some sense of whether Aikido might provide you with what you are looking for.

It is my experience that what may seem "fake" , "soft", "non-martial",... may or may not really be that way. Sometimes you actually have to suspend your judgment until after you personally feel something. Those things that look "fake" and work in a surprisingly effective manner are often times things that take a long time to really learn how to do. It is kind of like punching. You can teach a person to "punch" very quickly. Then again, how long does it take a person to REALLY know how to punch. My "acid test" for that is to have someone standing in a shizen tai position with one hand out and the other fist drawn in at the chest. Stand in front of the person and place your hands on the drawn-in fist and tell the person to punch. If they can easily move you backwards without over-powering you with muscle strength, then you can safely assume that this person can punch reasonably well.

If my response is obscure and not specific enough, I apologize in advance.

Good luck in your search,

Marc Abrams
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Old 08-19-2009, 04:18 PM   #3
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Looking For A Combative Oriented Aikido School in NY

Good advice from Marc.

The issue you will run into is that in a "Combative" oriented approach you are really learning some basic efficient Techniques, Tactics, and Procedures to use in various situations.

IMO, that requires a certain methodology that focuses on those things.

When you start applying "Aiki" to those TTPs, well you have to adopt a different methodology for training Aiki, which ironically, is not very "Combative" in nature.

As a Combatives instructor with the military, Yundansha i AIkido, and a BJJer, I train the methodoloies separate and distinct and support it to learn the lessons from each of them.

Synthesis of these things in a "Combative" environment is challenging for sure.

I am in the DC area and always happy to work with anyone, however I understand you are looking for a place in Long Island area.

As Marc said, a good Aikido school probaby won't be very combative on the surface since the methdology of Aiki really kinda eliminates alot of the pressure and combative reflexes in order to train Aiki.

Principles should be there however.

Good luck!

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Old 08-19-2009, 04:57 PM   #4
matrixdutch
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Re: Looking For A Combative Oriented Aikido School in NY

Hi Marc, Kevin:

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I guess I'm confused with the responses. That is my fault of course since my only exposure to aikido is through reading the book "Angry White Pajamas." From reading, it seemed like a very direct and hard form of aikido that was worthy of the Tokyo riot police. I figured this would be a great martial art to integrate into my current training.

By this I mean in close quarters, I could add some of the throwing and locks. I wanted to originally study judo, but am not looking forward to the high injury rates I've heard about, and a friend of mine has also been cajoling me to study BJJ as well with him (he's a purple belt)...I am also giving this some thought as well. The only reason I haven't is because I'm concerned about multiple opponent scenarios. I really don't want to be caught on the ground (if I can help it), and get kicked in the head by another person.

My primary concern is studying aikido with a teacher where the class is training in a very alive manner (pretty much going full tilt). It seemed like this is what was going on in that book.

Last edited by matrixdutch : 08-19-2009 at 04:59 PM.
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Old 08-19-2009, 05:07 PM   #5
Marc Abrams
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Re: Looking For A Combative Oriented Aikido School in NY

John:

The book that you refer to is Yoshinkan Aikido. In many respects, it is a "freeze frame" of the stage in O'Sensei's life where the art was referred to as some as Aiki Budo.

Kevin's point to you is well made. The training methodology is very different. The "alive" stuff that you are looking for can result in real injury with someone who really attacks someone full-tilt who knows his "aiki" stuff. The dangerous part is that you are given little or no body warnings as to the harm that is about to befall you.

There are some very good Phillipino and Indonesian arts that very good at the close-in space that you are talking about and would compliment what you do very nicely.

Once again, try an Yoshinkan Aikido class, and then try other schools. You can use the excellent dojo finder on this website to locate dojos near you. I would also caution you that there is typically a lot of "distance" within a particular Aikido style in how the style is translated into practice.

Marc Abrams
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Old 08-19-2009, 05:09 PM   #6
Misogi-no-Gyo
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Re: Looking For A Combative Oriented Aikido School in NY

Quote:
John Dutch wrote: View Post
Hello,

I currently study Muay Thai and Pekiti Tirsia. I live on Long Island am looking for an aikido school that emphasizes the self defense aspect. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

edit: I am also willing to travel into the Manhattan area as well
John,

From my own exploration of Aikido in NYC, Westcheester and Long Island, if you are looking for combat applications or even real-world practical effectiveness, you are pretty much out of luck. I haven't come across any Aikido with a true sense of practicality in any of the dojos that I chose to visit or train at. That doesn't mean they aren't wonderful places at which to train and augment your current skill sets. I would go as far as to say that going to a place that de-emphasizes the self defense aspects is important given the sole focus on combatives in the arts you are already studying.

It might also pay to clarify what you mean by "emphasizing the self defense aspects" as that could mean that you simply do not want to focus on the so-called spiritual aspects of the art of Aikido. In that case, I can only add, "Don't Worry!" There really aren't any schools that are emphasizing that to any degree of success either. Pretty much what you do have is various dojos that are practicing the technical syllabus as perceived within their own organizations. That said, doing so in a pure and selfless manner can lead to all sorts of collateral spiritual enhancement, but spirituality of any sort is most surely not something being taught at any school that I have come across.

Something that might augment your training well would be Krav Maga, as many of the movements are similar to ones found in Aikido. Two caveats to that statement, though...

1. Krav Maga is not Aikido, meaning that at the very basic level there is no Aiki. At a higher level, Krav Maga is not the martial art of Morihei Ueshiba, the founder of Aikido.

2. Aikido is an art which implicitly is devoid of attacks for the mere sake of attacking. The emphasis is on developing a coordinated method of neutralizing the attack, not the attacker. This is self defense in its purist form, and may not be how you define self defense for yourself. If that is the case, and unless you are looking to expand your definition, Aikido is not for you at this time.

The best thing to do is visit various schools and watch a few beginner, and some advanced classes. Then take a free class to get a feel for the schools culture, If something feels off for your, move on to the next one. I visited about a dozen or so when I moved to NY before I realized that I was not going to find what I was looking for. That is my own experience and YMMV.

If you have any questions about specific Aikido schools or Instructors in the NY area, please feel free to contact me privately.

Best in training to you and all...

.

I no longer participate in or read the discussion forums here on AikiWeb due to the unfair and uneven treatment of people by the owner/administrator.
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Old 08-19-2009, 05:36 PM   #7
gdandscompserv
 
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Re: Looking For A Combative Oriented Aikido School in NY

John,
I would check these guys out;
http://www.popkinbrognaselfdefense.com/
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Old 08-19-2009, 05:44 PM   #8
Marc Abrams
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Re: Looking For A Combative Oriented Aikido School in NY

I won't even bother to try and explain why I do not necessarily agree with Shaun's assessment of the Aikido world. Nor would I look toward he, myself, or anybody else for that matter for "private" info on schools, an instructors, style, etc... Everybody has a rear-end and an opinion. Many times, they are mistakenly crossed. Trust your own opinion as to a school, teacher, style, whether or not Aikido is "right" for you......

Krav Maga is not a martial art but a fighting system used by the Israeli military. Most instructors in the US are not ex-Israeli officers who were military instructors in that area. Instead, they are proud owners of a certificate from a certificate program. The difference between a military instructor in that area and a certificate owner is quite substantial (chime in Kevin if you know of any Israeli military instructors).

Good luck!

Marc Abrams
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Old 08-19-2009, 05:45 PM   #9
Marc Abrams
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Re: Looking For A Combative Oriented Aikido School in NY

Quote:
Ricky Wood wrote: View Post
John,
I would check these guys out;
http://www.popkinbrognaselfdefense.com/
Ricky has made an EXCELLENT suggestion. Howard Popkin is an excellent instructor of Roppokai Daitoryu!!!!!!!!!!!!

Marc Abrams
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Old 08-19-2009, 05:50 PM   #10
mickeygelum
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Re: Looking For A Combative Oriented Aikido School in NY

Mr Dutch,

I train in Albo Kali Silat, Albo Kali Silat.com under the tuteledge of Tuhan Jon Holloway.
I teach and train Shodokan Aikido, Tomiki-Ryu for the uninformed.

There are so many similarities, it is unbelieveable...Manny Vargas Sensei, former six time world champion, heads up the Tomiki Ronin Dojo.

If that is near to you, I would suggest a trip to observe or participate.

Vargas Sensei can be reached at www.tomikironin@optonline.net,

Or these dojos maybe closer, New York Vassar College Aikido Sensei Sean Flynn, 3rd Dan Vassar College, 124 Raymond Ave, #424
Poughkeepsie, NY
flynn@vassar.edu
http://vassar-aikido-club.com

New York Yama Arashi Dojo Sensei Alex Izaguirre, 2nd Dan 200 Hamilton Ave. Suite 15 B
White Plains, NY
914-584-5958
yama_arashi@msn.com
http://www.stormingmountain.com,

Or this maybe more advantageous,

New Jersey Shodokan
Sensei Ari Reinstein, 3rd Dan
Sussex County YMCA
15 Wits End Road
Hardyston, NJ
arijodi@embarqmail.com

Train well,

Mickey
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Old 08-19-2009, 06:49 PM   #11
mickeygelum
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Re: Looking For A Combative Oriented Aikido School in NY

Hi All,

I incorrectly entered the link for Albo Kali Silat, here is the correct link,
www.albokalisilat.com

Train well,

Mickey
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Old 08-19-2009, 07:27 PM   #12
Misogi-no-Gyo
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Re: Looking For A Combative Oriented Aikido School in NY

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
I won't even bother to try and explain why I do not necessarily agree with Shaun's assessment of the Aikido world.
Hi Mark,

Sorry if the truth as I see it (one I clearly indicated was based solely on my personal experience) was so contrary to your personal sensibilities. However, just because you don't like my truth, you don't simply get to dismiss it. You most certainly don't get to do so with the logic you provided in the rest of your post.

**********************************

Is there some remarkable difference in the statement that I made here

Quote:
Shaun Ravens wrote:
The best thing to do is visit various schools and watch a few beginner, and some advanced classes. Then take a free class to get a feel for the schools culture, If something feels off for your, move on to the next one. I visited about a dozen or so when I moved to NY before I realized that I was not going to find what I was looking for. That is my own experience and YMMV.
and yours, here
Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
Trust your own opinion as to a school, teacher, style, whether or not Aikido is "right" for you......
What part of did you specifically disagree with so much that you had to negate the entire worthiness of your post with this nonsense?

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
Nor would I look toward he, myself, or anybody else for that matter for "private" info on schools, an instructors, style, etc... Everybody has a rear-end and an opinion. Many times, they are mistakenly crossed.
Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
Krav Maga is not a martial art but a fighting system used by the Israeli military.
And Aikido is a martial art which is not used by any military. Given the arts the OP is already studying, something bereft of the baggage associated with traditional martial arts systems may integrate very well into his training regimen.

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
Most instructors in the US are not ex-Israeli officers who were military instructors in that area. Instead, they are proud owners of a certificate from a certificate program.
Hmmm, I am wondering other than the Aikido certificate that you have received in Aikido, from the certificate program that you went through, what you have that is any different? Is it a matter of time or dedication to the program needed? I know plenty of 4th and 5th dan Aikido certificate holders that have been training 20 and 30 years who couldn't back up over a half-filled pail of water without getting wet... Did you have a bad experience with someone from a Krav Maga school? One can only wonder.

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
The difference between a military instructor in that area and a certificate owner is quite substantial (chime in Kevin if you know of any Israeli military instructors).
And that doesn't make them any better necessarily either. Having lived in Israel and spent my time in and around the military what I can say is that you will get a hell of a lot more bad-attitude, but not necessarily any better training. One could also use your point to mean that the OP should pack a bag and head right off to Honbu dojo, too.

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
Good luck!
isn't that what I said?

Since you feel so strongly that there are qualified teachers of Aikido who can deliver the level of training (not simply a well constructed class where one will be out of breath at the end) that the OP is looking for, please do us all a favor by simply stating who and where they are...

When someone comes in the door looking for self defense, or combat Aikido, that tells you so much about them from the get go. Sure Aikido is a wonderful art form, one that a person can spend the rest of their lives studying. However, misleading them to think that it will develop any sort of short-term self defense or combat readiness is part of the identity problem Aikido has been going through for several decades. It really is about time that we step up and stop making Aikido out to be something that it is not

Best in training to you and all...

.

I no longer participate in or read the discussion forums here on AikiWeb due to the unfair and uneven treatment of people by the owner/administrator.
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Old 08-19-2009, 08:00 PM   #13
dps
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Re: Looking For A Combative Oriented Aikido School in NY

Yoshinkan

Shodokan

Aikikai

David
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Old 08-19-2009, 08:44 PM   #14
Misogi-no-Gyo
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Re: Looking For A Combative Oriented Aikido School in NY

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post


As it stands, not one of the people in the videos you attached teaches in NY. More importantly, it is more than disingenuous to suggest that any one of them would survive 5 seconds against anyone with any combative skills to speak of. I wouldn't even want to see a photo of the aftermath should they face anyone on the street who was trying to hurt them.

Of course, they may be wonderful teachers instructing at wonderful schools with wonderful students while being, well... wonderful to follow. But practical or combative or real self defense... not likely.

.

I no longer participate in or read the discussion forums here on AikiWeb due to the unfair and uneven treatment of people by the owner/administrator.
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Old 08-19-2009, 09:00 PM   #15
dps
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Re: Looking For A Combative Oriented Aikido School in NY

Quote:
Shaun Ravens wrote: View Post

As it stands, not one of the people in the videos you attached teaches in NY. More importantly, it is more than disingenuous to suggest that any one of them would survive 5 seconds against anyone with any combative skills to speak of. I wouldn't even want to see a photo of the aftermath should they face anyone on the street who was trying to hurt them.

Of course, they may be wonderful teachers instructing at wonderful schools with wonderful students while being, well... wonderful to follow. But practical or combative or real self defense... not likely.

.
How about this guy?
or this guy guy
or this guy
or this guy?
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Old 08-19-2009, 09:16 PM   #16
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Re: Looking For A Combative Oriented Aikido School in NY

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
How about this guy?
or this guy guy
or this guy
or this guy?
Quote:
Shaun Ravens wrote:
They may be wonderful teachers instructing at wonderful schools with wonderful students while being, well... wonderful to follow.
Nice try with the Seagal Sensei link, though. Really! But of course, he doesn't teach Aikido any longer, so including him in a list of possible teachers doesn't really help the OP.

.

I no longer participate in or read the discussion forums here on AikiWeb due to the unfair and uneven treatment of people by the owner/administrator.
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Old 08-19-2009, 09:27 PM   #17
dps
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Re: Looking For A Combative Oriented Aikido School in NY

Quote:
Shaun Ravens wrote: View Post
They may be wonderful teachers instructing at wonderful schools with wonderful students while being, well... wonderful to follow.
Do you think Seagal would be better able to handle a street fight better than Nariyama Sensei, Yamada Sensei or Inoue Sensei?

David

P.S. The OP was looking for a style of Aikido that represents self defense.

Last edited by dps : 08-19-2009 at 09:33 PM.
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Old 08-19-2009, 10:26 PM   #18
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Looking For A Combative Oriented Aikido School in NY

Quote:
John Dutch wrote: View Post
Hi Marc, Kevin:

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I guess I'm confused with the responses. That is my fault of course since my only exposure to aikido is through reading the book "Angry White Pajamas." From reading, it seemed like a very direct and hard form of aikido that was worthy of the Tokyo riot police. I figured this would be a great martial art to integrate into my current training.

By this I mean in close quarters, I could add some of the throwing and locks. I wanted to originally study judo, but am not looking forward to the high injury rates I've heard about, and a friend of mine has also been cajoling me to study BJJ as well with him (he's a purple belt)...I am also giving this some thought as well. The only reason I haven't is because I'm concerned about multiple opponent scenarios. I really don't want to be caught on the ground (if I can help it), and get kicked in the head by another person.

My primary concern is studying aikido with a teacher where the class is training in a very alive manner (pretty much going full tilt). It seemed like this is what was going on in that book.
Thanks for the additional info. Well as Marc said "opinions are like.....everyone has one, myself included."

This is a really difficult conversation to have over the internet as their are many, many factors that need to be sorted out and alot of this needs to occur in a kinesthetic conversation vice electrons.

Here is what you really need to do if you ask me: (my opinion)

When you say "Combatives" it means one thing to me...that is learning how to fight in a given situation or situations. It implies certain "rules of engagement" or tactics such as what might apply to Police or Military. This is one area of study and requires a very specific set of training guidelines, rules, methdology, education...under experienced and qualified intstructors that understand military and law enforcement environments.

For example I am a Military Combatives Instructor, but I would not teach Law Enforcement as I am not qualified nor do I understand the environment that They work under. The things that I can do in the military..some apply so don't. Yeah, there is a common core that is the same, principles are the same, but it is the rules of engagement and application of tactics that matter most in training so I would not be the right guy to train them in "Law Enforcement Combatives".

Neither would the local Krav Maga guy either IMO.

Then there is SELF DEFENSE. Again another area that requires a set of assumptions and parameters that need to be trained. As most situation involve a "predator" and "prey", and involve some sort of ambush type scenario, then training in this area is specific in nature to develop a set of default and spontaneous responses and instincts to defend yourself.

Again Self Defense would also be subject to the same principles, and many of the things you learn in BJJ, Krav Maga, and Aikido are applicable, but training in those arts alone are not "self defense" and frankly I have not found too many schools or places, or instructors that really understand the self defense environment and simply teach whatever waza they learned over the years and call it "self defense". There is alot of BS out there being passed off as Self Defense.

Then there are Sport based Arts such as Judo and BJJ. Both excellent arts. Lots of fun and you learn some very good things in them. I highly recommend them as base arts as you learn many, many good things. I am a Mid Level Purple Belt in BJJ and a card carrying Judoka that competes.

Principles are the same as above in MIlitary and Self Defense, in fact BJJ has been a big help in making me proficient in teaching Military Combatives and Self Defense. However, These Sport Based arts also have a paradigm of rules that you have to be aware of when training, and they are not fighting, combatives, or self defense either.

Then there is the So-Called Internal Arts and Koryu (old style arts) such as Aikido, Diato Ryu and others. (Yes, I understand that Aikido is not Koryu, but it is also not Judo or BJJ). These arts are based on classical systems of study and there are many good reasons to study these arts. I won't go into it as there is a different opinion on these arts depending on your perspective and philosophy. (read the multitude of post we have here on aikiweb).

The thing with Aikido though is this, IMO, there are some very good reasons to study it. Books and literature I think tend to paint a romantic picture of the world in many cases.

Just ask yourself "Why do I want to study aikido?". Is it simply because of self defense? Is it because it seems cool? is it because you like the idea of being a modern day samurai warrior? The concept of Budo attracts you? You think it will help you with multiple opponents? You like the concept that is espoused by many that it is a defensive art that resolves conflict without injury?

I don't believe anyone here can say what it will or will not do for you. I personally think it is a lousy system for teaching self defense, combatives, and I don't buy into the "defensive art that teaches you how to resolve conflict without injury" logic. I personally think this are bullshit reasons for studying aikido and your time and money would be spent better elsewhere.

I think that the Tokyo Riot Police probably don't study the aikido that we study in the US or that even others study in Japan. Why would you want to spend your time studying Japanese Techniques, Tactics, and Procedures unless you are a Tokyo Police Officer. Think about it, how you enforce laws and arrest people in the Bronx might be different than in a small mid west town. Alot of culture and environmental issues have to be addressed in tactics training.

However, AIkido, like BJJ for me, might be a good base art for the Tokyo police.

Aliveness, that is a subject that comes up alot, and one of my favorites! I agree that training with Aliveness is very important.

Now, what do you mean by Aliveness?

Aliveness and how you train it depends on your training objectives.

If I am training a Soldier in Combatives, Aliveness means one thing.

If I am training a civilian in an Aikido dojo to fine tune his arm/shoulder proprioception and how to relax and use lower body more than upper body...well the aliveness we use to train this might be different.

In my aikido, I have particular goals that I am trying to train. I am trying to learn Aiki. that is how to reduce feedback and proprioception, how to use ground paths, distribute my weight, affect my uke's weight and balance etc. This requires that I train in a certain way. I use aliveness, but it is not the same aliveness I would use in Combatives or BJJ. You can't train that way and learn Aiki.

So, I think that you have to understand what it is that you want to train. I think you have to break it down into categories and methodologies and stay true to those methodologies.

Sure it is fun to find a dojo that attacks hard, fast and realistic and has a certain amount of struggle, agressiveness, and energy. I LOVE to train that way and it is necessary sometimes.

However, if that is all you are looking for out of AIkido, I wouldn't waste my time with AIkido and go with a BJJ school or something. You will have more fun, learn alot, and get competent pretty quickly.

However, if you want to learn Aiki, then I think what Marc and I are saying is find a good school that concentrates on developing those skills, yet still has an eye on sound application of the principles and can translate them to some understanding of application...but don't confuse that understanding of application with reality!

Long winded and probably not too conherent, but I hope this perspective might be helpful to you in someway.

Like Marc said, everyone has an opinion.

BTW, I have heard good things about Howard Popkin's Dojo someone recommended. That might be a good place for you to check out.

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Old 08-20-2009, 06:51 AM   #19
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Re: Looking For A Combative Oriented Aikido School in NY

Quote:
John Dutch wrote: View Post
Hello,

I currently study Muay Thai and Pekiti Tirsia. I live on Long Island am looking for an aikido school that emphasizes the self defense aspect. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

edit: I am also willing to travel into the Manhattan area as well
John,

Kevin pretty much summoned it up. "I personally think it is a lousy system for teaching self defense, combatives, and I don't buy into the "defensive art that teaches you how to resolve conflict without injury" logic. I personally think this are bullshit reasons for studying aikido and your time and money would be spent better elsewhere."

Do yourself a big favor and take the wise advise of Kevin and Marc. The website presented offers a much better self defense option. Don't waste your time.

http://www.popkinbrognaselfdefense.com/
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Old 08-20-2009, 07:38 AM   #20
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Re: Looking For A Combative Oriented Aikido School in NY

going to throw in systema hat. those who don't want to hear, can go away.

john, you might want to check out systema. i believe it will complement your skills. they deal with multiple opponents and in some very interesting environments and settings. for example, the last time i played with my local systema folks, i was back against the wall dealing with two guys welding knives that tried to cut me. the exercise wasn't about knife defense, but was about relax movement in a bad situation, awareness, and flow. just an example.

that's my 5 cents (with inflation).
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Old 08-20-2009, 08:14 AM   #21
Rabih Shanshiry
 
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Re: Looking For A Combative Oriented Aikido School in NY

Quote:
Shaun Ravens wrote: View Post
More importantly, it is more than disingenuous to suggest that any one of them would survive 5 seconds against anyone with any combative skills to speak of. I wouldn't even want to see a photo of the aftermath should they face anyone on the street who was trying to hurt them..
Are you kidding? Takeno Sensei, the guy in the Yoshinkan clip, is a baaaad man. I'd hate to see what would happen to the person who makes the mistake of jumping him on the street. Don't get me wrong, I don't think he's invincible but you're not giving anywhere near enough credit to the man. By all accounts, he is a force.

Ellis has this to say about him:

"And I also began watching videos of Takeno Takefumi sensei, who is among the best technical practitioners of aikido I have ever seen - someone who has taken his own teacher’s skills, made them his own and then from that, created his methods - loyal to his teacher, but something more."

As for the OP, John - I'd recommend you also visit these schools to see if they might be a fit for you. That said I'd like to echo earlier posts that advise against picking up Aikido if all you are looking for is a quick and effective self-defense instruction:

NYC Yoshinkan Dojo
5985 S. Broadway Ave.
New York, NY 10471
Contact: Roman Solonyy
http://www.newyorkyoshinkan.com/index.html

Genyukan Dojo
69-02 Austin St, Suite 202
Forest Hills, NY 11375
(718)544-4698
Contact: Roman Pinhasov
http://www.genyukan.com/index1.html

Last edited by Rabih Shanshiry : 08-20-2009 at 08:22 AM.
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Old 08-20-2009, 08:41 AM   #22
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Looking For A Combative Oriented Aikido School in NY

I know both of the Roman's above. Both are EXTREMELY tough cookies. I would never on my best day pick a fight with either of them. If you want combat oriented jujutsu, stop by the Genyukan and ask Roman P. about what he did while living in Israel. Then ask him to apply his yoshinkan aikido or judo or jujutsu or karate. He's yudansha ranked in all of them. If you like combat oriented, and access to some traditional aikido as well, you won't go wrong there.
Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 08-20-2009, 09:28 AM   #23
Larry Feldman
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Re: Looking For A Combative Oriented Aikido School in NY

Try to find a Ju-Jitsu (Japanese) school.

I can recommend an excellant one in Northern NJ if you are willing to travel.
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Old 08-20-2009, 09:59 AM   #24
K. Abrams
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Re: Looking For A Combative Oriented Aikido School in NY

I agree with Larry to seek out a jujutsu school. Maybe BJJ or even a traditional judo school that leans toward the Kodokan way. Or Daito ryu, aikido's direct ancestor. I think the info Ricky posted about Roppokai would take you there.
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