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Old 07-19-2009, 12:36 PM   #1
dalen7
 
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pronunciation... kokyuho

I have a question about proper pronunciation of...

Kokyuho

Which is correct:
Koh - koo - ho
koh - key - ho
koh - key - oo - ho
koh - key - you - ho

With Kokyu Nage it seems straight forward:
Koh - Key - you - nage

But with Kokyuho I can never quite tell what is being said... it doesnt seem as distinct as the latter.

Peace

dAlen

p.s.
It actually blends in with Gokyo depending on who says it.
I had it once where I swore sensei was saying Ko-ky-ho and I asked to make sure and it was Gokyo.
[fact is my hearing isnt the best so that has a part to play with it, but it is most embarrassing to get stuck on a technique thinking it is one thing when its another.]

Last edited by dalen7 : 07-19-2009 at 12:40 PM.

dAlen [day•lynn]
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Old 07-19-2009, 01:18 PM   #2
Janet Rosen
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Re: pronunciation... kokyuho

Quote:
Dalen Johnson wrote: View Post
With Kokyu Nage it seems straight forward:
Koh - Key - you - nage
Interesting. Every dojo I''ve trained at/visited in the US and Canada says Koh-kyoo-nage.

Janet Rosen
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Old 07-19-2009, 01:32 PM   #3
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Re: pronunciation... kokyuho

Here is an audio pronunciation guide that I made a little while ago:

http://www.aikiweb.com/language/audio.html

Hope it helps,

-- Jun

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Old 07-19-2009, 02:14 PM   #4
dalen7
 
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Re: pronunciation... kokyuho

Thank you Janet and Jun!

So it seems I had it all wrong, its koh-kyoo indeed... ah, the joys of a different tongue... thanks for the help!

Peace,

dAlen

p.s.
gonna bookmark that page Jun... again, thanks.

Last edited by dalen7 : 07-19-2009 at 02:17 PM.

dAlen [day•lynn]
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Old 07-19-2009, 07:35 PM   #5
Janet Rosen
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Re: pronunciation... kokyuho

:-)

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Old 07-20-2009, 08:40 AM   #6
dalen7
 
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Re: pronunciation... kokyuho

... but what this also means is that calling the ranks "key - you" is totally incorrect.

It should sound like '1st q, 2nd q,', etc.
...oh well, learn something everyday.

Peace

dAlen

p.s.

Suppose "key-you" is for those with a southern accent. [though not limited to the states obviously]

dAlen [day•lynn]
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Old 07-21-2009, 05:24 AM   #7
Mark Uttech
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Re: pronunciation... kokyuho

Onegaishimasu. Kokyuho is pronounced:

"coke-you-ho"

That was a simple pronunciation, easy to remember.

In gassho,

Mark

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Old 07-21-2009, 06:28 AM   #8
Michael Varin
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Re: pronunciation... kokyuho

Quote:
Mark Uttech wrote:
"coke-you-ho"

That was a simple pronunciation, easy to remember.
Simple, but wrong.

The syllables are misrepresented.

Kokyu: koh-cue

Kokyu ho: koh-cue-ho

To be completely accurate, the "u" sound in Japanese is made without rounding the lips. Of course, my Japanese is terrible, but most Americans won't know the difference!

-Michael
"Through aiki we can feel the mind of the enemy who comes to attack and are thus able to respond immediately." - M. Mochizuki
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Old 07-21-2009, 06:48 AM   #9
Josh Reyer
 
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Re: pronunciation... kokyuho

Quote:
Michael Varin wrote: View Post
Simple, but wrong.

The syllables are misrepresented.

Kokyu: koh-cue

Kokyu ho: koh-cue-ho

To be completely accurate, the "u" sound in Japanese is made without rounding the lips. Of course, my Japanese is terrible, but most Americans won't know the difference!
To be even more accurate, the "ko" is a short, clipped sound, not as long in duration as the usual English "oh". Meanwhile, the "ho" is a longer sound, roughly two beats' worth of the first "ko". So the "ko" is a little shorter than normal English "oh", and the "ho" a little longer than the normal English "oh". The "u" of "kyu", incidentally, is also two beats long. Just a smidgen longer than, say, the letter "Q".

Josh Reyer

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Old 07-21-2009, 12:11 PM   #10
dalen7
 
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Re: pronunciation... kokyuho

So its not just me having issues...

Thanks for the follow up post and detailed explanation Josh.
[not sure I will ever get that good at it, but if I can get the syllables in the right place it will be a start!]

Peace

dAlen

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Old 07-21-2009, 12:33 PM   #11
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Re: pronunciation... kokyuho

That's really helpful, Jun. I year into training I called O'Sensei, Yoo-shee-bah to one of my sensei. He corrected me gently, without any mocking. Still, I was embarrassed. Your great efforts on that section will assist many.

Drew
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Old 07-21-2009, 01:06 PM   #12
dalen7
 
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Re: pronunciation... kokyuho

Quote:
Drew Gardner wrote: View Post
That's really helpful, Jun. I year into training I called O'Sensei, Yoo-shee-bah to one of my sensei. He corrected me gently, without any mocking. Still, I was embarrassed. Your great efforts on that section will assist many.

Drew
k... as for embarrassment I will lay it on the line.
At my test I was so focused on what the visiting/testing Sensei wanted from me on 3 techniques which varied from what I was shown, that I messed up Gokkyo.

I swore I heard him say, "koh key ho", I said, "koh key ho?" - and he nodded yes, and this went on 3 times.
The problem was he said, what I thought, was shomenuchi kokyuho, and I know there is not a technique like that in any of my exams - at least 6th - 3rd kyu.

Then he did a gesture in the air and I was, "ah, Gokkyo!" I was so freakn embarrassed it was crazy!

Then I find out its koh - q - ho [or there abouts!] lol

Anyway, I know the techniques, just not used to hearing them called out. [As mentioned, not much dojo practice on higher level techniques, and the other stuff I do at home from memory, thus I "hear" what I think they are supposed to sound like!"

This is all good, as Aikiweb has truly been a great source in helping me along in my journey in Aikido!

Peace

dAlen

dAlen [day•lynn]
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Old 07-21-2009, 10:48 PM   #13
Michael Varin
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Re: pronunciation... kokyuho

Quote:
Josh Reyer wrote:
To be even more accurate. . .
Yeah. Completely was a poor word choice. Thanks for your contribution.

I found something that may be helpful for those who haven't heard these terms pronounced correctly.

You can listen to the pronunciation by clicking the following links.

呼 (ko)

吸 (kyuu)

方 (hou)

-Michael
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Old 07-21-2009, 11:51 PM   #14
Josh Reyer
 
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Re: pronunciation... kokyuho

Quote:
Michael Varin wrote: View Post
Yeah. Completely was a poor word choice. Thanks for your contribution.

I found something that may be helpful for those who haven't heard these terms pronounced correctly.

You can listen to the pronunciation by clicking the following links.
Michael, please don't think I'm picking on you. But...

Those sound files are all for short sounds, so while the "ko" is good, the "kyu" and "ho" are too short. Not to mention that the three sounds in isolation there do not provide the proper pitch accent of the whole word.

Speaking of pitch accent, kokyu has a high pitch accent on the first syllable and low accent on the rest. Likewise, ho(u) starts high and then drops.

ko......ho
...kyuu...o

Finally, kokyu-ho is written 呼吸法, rather than 呼吸方.

Josh Reyer

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Old 07-22-2009, 12:30 AM   #15
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Re: pronunciation... kokyuho

Quote:
Joshua Reyer wrote: View Post
呼吸法, rather than 呼吸方.
... exactly!

- dAlen

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Old 07-22-2009, 06:09 AM   #16
Michael Varin
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Re: pronunciation... kokyuho

Quote:
Josh Reyer wrote:
Michael, please don't think I'm picking on you. But...
Well, I wouldn't have thought anything if you didn't bring it up!

You are definitely correct about that kanji for 'ho.' I tend to get those confused.

Actually, while we are on the subject, is the kanji that I used "a way" in the sense of a direction, and the correct kanji "a way" as in the manner in which something is done? I don't think I've ever had those accurately translated for me.

-Michael
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