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Old 08-26-2009, 01:30 PM   #276
C. David Henderson
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Re: True Internal Strength

Cyber-bullets are rarely made of silver, alas.
 
Old 08-26-2009, 01:42 PM   #277
Budd
 
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Re: True Internal Strength

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Hello Bud
Due to some family issues I don't have time to respond (I'm waiting for a download from a computer crash right now so I have some time)
Dan, very sorry to hear that, still, and continued best wishes and sympathies for you and yours
 
Old 08-26-2009, 03:54 PM   #278
Tim Fong
 
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Re: True Internal Strength

Quote:
Ignatius Teo wrote: View Post
Now, now Tim... there are some Genndy Tartakovsky fans here.
Well, I was actually alluding to a now-banned poster over at E-budo:
http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthre...t=36149&page=5
 
Old 08-26-2009, 04:18 PM   #279
gdandscompserv
 
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Re: True Internal Strength

Dan,
It's people like you that give MMA a good name!
Sorry to hear about your family issues. I hope all is well.
Ricky
 
Old 08-26-2009, 06:46 PM   #280
Buck
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Re: True Internal Strength

Why is it so wrong to believe O'Sensei knew his stuff and knew what he was doing. I have confidence in Aikido, why is that wrong.

There are some on this thread remind me of the story characters like the piped piper or Pinocchio when a Donkey and the experience in The city of Catchfools.

I think Aikido provides us with an opportunity for developing true internal strengthI am sorry, don't feel that way, but am sticking with O'Sensei and Aikido. And that seems to bother a group of people, who stick with others outside of Aikido. I didn't know those who, like myself, that stick with Aikido are targeted to ridicule and stuff like that, by those who believe otherwise. I don't understand the big deal. Especially, when gun violence is mentioned by a poster.

Maybe sticking with O'Sensei isn't a bad idea.
 
Old 08-26-2009, 07:04 PM   #281
rob_liberti
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Re: True Internal Strength

Quote:
Philip Burgess wrote: View Post
Maybe sticking with O'Sensei isn't a bad idea.
I think training like O-sensei did is a wonderful idea. (And Buck, he wasn't Irish.)

Rob

old mcdojo had a form, aiki aiki do...
 
Old 08-26-2009, 07:08 PM   #282
Buck
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Re: True Internal Strength

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
Buck it'd be alright if you actually stuck to your own rules. If you go back and read the thread I actually went to bat for you on like the second or third post stating that you and Rob Liberti were actually defining "Internal Strength" in two different ways. I am good with your definition in that respect.

However here is were you run into problems and deviate from your path of "True Internal Strength" by taking swipes at others.

". I am a person who recognizes his skill...." (referring to O'Sensei's skills)

for which you have been asked many times to provide references for on what leads you to recognize his skills. A fair question since you are the one that made the bold statement.

"The Chinese use of Internal body strength has been a fad. Those who feel developing "body skill" to raise the level of their martial art where or are lacking it, and hence seek it. I am not sure exactly what defines "body skill" as you mean it. We don't have to discuss it. I would rather not in this thread. If you precisely define it and give visual example that can be solidly discuss I would be glad too in another thread."

So you throw out there that you believe Chinese stuff to be a Fad. That is like throwing fuel on the fire...then in the same paragraph you state that you'd rather not discuss it. Then why bring it up? This is passive/agressive behavior at it's finest.

"My use of internal strength is pretty clear and very common to many disciplines. I was to keep my views and ideas apart from O'Sensei. I don't want also to sound as if I am interpreting him with what I say. It is all me, my views, not O'Sensei's"

Really? Above you stated that you were someone that understood what he meant..now you are saying these are yours, not his? Not only a flip/flop...but also indirectly you imply you know what his views are on the subject since they are your views not his? Confusing but lots of room for implications here.

"Sorry. I am not one of those people. I happen to like Aikido. And I happen to value what true internal strength is about and how I can apply that, without being dependent on anyone or any martial art fad (for the word police, "in thing" ) that comes along."

Another swipe at the other side of the fence calling it a FAD. Again, if the thread really were about your "True Internal Strength" then why do you keep taking shots at others?

"Aikido is working for me just fine. If I need something for my Aikido, I will look at the arts O'Sensei studied careful, and figure it out from there if, I feel the need. That is how I roll"

Again, the question comes to mind, which all of us really want to know...HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT O'SENSEI studied? HOW DO YOU TRAIN? WITH WHOM DO YOU GET THE INTERPRETATION THROUGH? those are important questions, we would really like to know how you "roll".

So, if I may sum this up.....

1. You make a thread called TRUE INTERNAL SKILLS in which you define as being something to do with character and the mental inner strength...which is good.

2. You call what others on the list are discussing as Internal Skills as being a FAD.

3. You make the rules up for this thread which states, I can say what I want, take shots at you whenever I want to, but if you take them back at me, you are bullying me.

4. People ask you direct questions and you don't reply to them, other than to call them "confrontational" or they don't get it, or they are being a bully, or this doesn't have anything to do with what you are talking about.

And you wonder why folks are getting frustrated, calling you a troll, and giving you the PLONK?

Really? you are for real?
1. True.

2. True, can't help if people run around with their emotions on their sleeve and jump to conclusions, or made it into a elementary school insult session because they feel threatened . What I do tend to see is they are not confident in their beliefs or what they feel they need to defend. i.e. see #4.

3. Obviously, not. That is really, really obviously not the case, and such highjacking and twisting of the thread isn't don't by me. But rather by those who feel threatened and insult instead of making this into a productive discussion, because flaming is all they can contribute to the thread.

4. Not true. But rather a fallacy tactic to discredit my thread and shift it to the what some feel they have claim IS as their phrase.

In fact the whole post is a sad, outdated and disappointing attempt to twist my words and thoughts into something I didn't say or mean, because some feel threatened fearing my thoughts that see to shakes and challenges their faith in their ways and their belief system.

I am sorry if that has happen, but it wasn't intentional. Remember this is an Aikido forum. I like so many others believe in our Aikido teachers and O'Sensei, and I can't apologize for that.
 
Old 08-26-2009, 07:23 PM   #283
Buck
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Re: True Internal Strength

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post

Internal power, Aikido and martial arts
Some people talk about "True Internal Power" - others can do. I intend to continue to prove out the reality of "IT" for actual use in the martial arts in a manner that proves to be inescapably viable in any field. I do not mind in the least that it continues to be inescapably obvious and "in your face" to those that want to continue to call this-the foundational power of the aiki arts "Aiki" for Gods sake!! - a fad.
Any credence or credibility they may have on the net is immediately removed- in person.

I would continue to be cautious of people who continue to allude to knowing the "complete skills" or the comeplete Aikido of Ueshiba- if they cannot deliver across the board. And that means with weapons and without. Ueshiba always did. How can anyone dare to claim to know what he knew if they can't deliver under pressure? We had to deal with the old M.A.B.S.-we need to be careful of the new I.M.A.B.S. Knowing a few tricks and moves is not a complete set of anything. Everything is not all the same. It's a broad field.
Talk to you soon
Dan
I would too caution people the same that allude to any complete power of Aikido (aside from certain teachers) that is my logic. I think that is not a responsible or realistic attitude to take. I feel the journey is greater than reaching the goal.

I agree knowing a few tricks and moves isn't complete and like I said often is fad. In that case is it is detrimental to the learning experience because people stop developing their skill. They think it is all they need to know. It isn't the magic bullet, it isn't the secret. And when people who believe it is and then told it isn't, they get really defensive and insecure as their beliefs have been threatened.

In so many other threads I told of my personal quest to find out what O'Sensei really was teaching. I wasn't alive when O'Sensei was, so I got my Aikido through those who did train with him and they naturally shaped Aikido to them. My personal quest is like reading the original manuscript of a great work without it being edited, stuff like that. Being edited is find, but it is very thrilling to be able to read the original. I also want to see O'Sensei through my eyes and not someone else's eyes.

Am not naive to think that I will be able to do this completely without some influence of others.

But, I do think Dan has a point.

Last edited by Buck : 08-26-2009 at 07:34 PM.
 
Old 08-26-2009, 09:49 PM   #284
HL1978
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Re: True Internal Strength

Quote:
Philip Burgess wrote: View Post
I would too caution people the same that allude to any complete power of Aikido (aside from certain teachers) that is my logic. I think that is not a responsible or realistic attitude to take. I feel the journey is greater than reaching the goal.

I agree knowing a few tricks and moves isn't complete and like I said often is fad. In that case is it is detrimental to the learning experience because people stop developing their skill. They think it is all they need to know. It isn't the magic bullet, it isn't the secret. And when people who believe it is and then told it isn't, they get really defensive and insecure as their beliefs have been threatened.

In so many other threads I told of my personal quest to find out what O'Sensei really was teaching. I wasn't alive when O'Sensei was, so I got my Aikido through those who did train with him and they naturally shaped Aikido to them. My personal quest is like reading the original manuscript of a great work without it being edited, stuff like that. Being edited is find, but it is very thrilling to be able to read the original. I also want to see O'Sensei through my eyes and not someone else's eyes.

Am not naive to think that I will be able to do this completely without some influence of others.

But, I do think Dan has a point.
A couple of points. Pop internal strength into google and you get 45% of the results related to martial arts, 45% related to some sort of stock trading system, and the rest of various anecdotes of confidence building. This leads me to believe that the term itself is much more often used in the manner discussed in the non-aikido traditions forum.

Internal strength as a skill is great until you meet someone who is just as strong or stronger than you. Then you have to know how to use technique and timing if you hope to beat the other guy. You only get people tossed through the air in dramatic fashion when there is a dramatic difference in understanding between two people, otherwise the technique begins to look like something completely different. As these skills become more and more common, technique will play far more of a role among those who can replicate these skills.

I have studied a number of different martial arts and they have all had some sort of "internal strength" development exercise, so it is hard to call this sort of thing a fad particularly when these are generally foundational exercises..
 
Old 08-27-2009, 07:47 AM   #285
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Re: True Internal Strength

Quote:
Philip Burgess wrote: View Post
Why is it so wrong to believe O'Sensei knew his stuff and knew what he was doing. I have confidence in Aikido, why is that wrong.
What's wrong is making intellectually dishonest, strawman statements like this, that strongly imply that the person to whom you are responding holds an absurd position that is, in fact, your creation. This isn't rocket science, Buck, and it's been pointed out to you over and over again, yet you keep doing it. I can only conclude that this is a deliberate action on your part, a dishonest debating tactic that you consciously choose to engage in whenever your "arguments" have been refuted. I understand your reluctance to let go of cherished beliefs -- we all have that -- but you've taken it to the point of insulting other people.
 
Old 08-27-2009, 08:04 AM   #286
Marc Abrams
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Re: True Internal Strength

The author of this thread has started and responded to threads in a manner that has clearly resulted in a particular label. If that is the case, why do people keep on responding to him. The author has been asked many times, by many different people to honestly identify himself, where and with whom he studies. He has been asked to back up his assertions. The author has yet to respond to people's legitimate queries in an honest manner. This pattern begs the question:

WHY DO PEOPLE CONTINUE TO RESPOND TO ANYTHING HE WRITES?

Until such time that this poster can establish himself as a real person, with a real training background, with some developing ideas that can be substantiated in any manner or form (beyond the results of an internet search). I would simply re-iterate, PLEASE, PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND, SO THAT HE EITHER FADES AWAY OR ANSWERS SOME REAL QUESTIONS IN AN HONEST MANNER.

Marc Abrams
 
Old 08-27-2009, 08:07 AM   #287
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: True Internal Strength

I'm with Marc on this now. The only alternative is for us to have negative conversations, or to have Jun go around and constantly shut down our threads, which at this point, this thread definitely needs to be shut down.

 
Old 08-27-2009, 08:24 AM   #288
C. David Henderson
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Re: True Internal Strength

Well, as we all know, Pinocchio solved the puzzle of TIS when he became a real boy -- brave and strong, and true. That would be enough, for me, to give a go at having a discussion.

'Course, first he had to overcome that problem involving his nose...
 
Old 08-27-2009, 10:19 AM   #289
Marc Abrams
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Re: True Internal Strength

Quote:
David Henderson wrote: View Post
Well, as we all know, Pinocchio solved the puzzle of TIS when he became a real boy -- brave and strong, and true. That would be enough, for me, to give a go at having a discussion.

'Course, first he had to overcome that problem involving his nose...
David:

I can respect your patience and cordial nature. I think that I speak for many when I simply request that you communicate with any perceived Pinocchio's through PM and thereby relieving the other people of the issues that emerge when people try to have reasonable discourses with "straw ponies."

Regards,

Marc Abrams

ps.- I will be in Albuquerque for the Imaizumi Sensei seminar 9/18-9/20. I hope you can make it down. First round is on me!
 
Old 08-27-2009, 10:36 AM   #290
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Re: True Internal Strength

Thread closed due to lack of positively constructive posts.

-- Jun

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