Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-24-2009, 02:40 PM   #1
ironicon
Location: Cologne
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3
Austria
Offline
Question History of nomenclature for Aikido techniques

Hi everybody!

I am looking for a little bit of historical information on Aikido..

The thing is, I am interested in the naming of techiques which is very structured and concise (if I understood correctly, I'm still a bit of a newbie in this aikido thing), e.g. ai hanmi ikkyo ura waza and follows the principle attack - techique - mode. In librarianship this would be called a facetted classification.

Does anyone of you know if this naming konvention existed from the start on? Or did Ueshiba use different names and someone sorted it all out at a later date?

Any information would be much appreciated!

Have a nice day and greetings from Cologne

Peter
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2009, 02:54 PM   #2
odudog
Dojo: Dale City Aikikai
Location: VA
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 376
Offline
Re: History of nomenclature for Aikido techniques

You are opening a big can of worms with this question!

Not everybody uses the same name for the same technique. For instance, Yoshinkan uses the word "mochi" but Aikikai uses the word "tori". Both words mean to grab, to grasp, etc... something. You need an encyclopedia to figure everything out.

Also, in the old days a lot of techniques were disguised by the naming. The name actually did not describe what was being done or on what part of the body to attack. You had to be part of the "family" to understand what was actually happening. For example, shihonage just means four direction throw but it in no way describes what is being done.

Lastly, not all the words in the technique is said. An instructor could just call out part of the technique yet the student knows exactly what version needs to be demonstrated. Again, you need to be part of the "family" to understand what is being asked of you.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2009, 04:19 PM   #3
David Maidment
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 149
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: History of nomenclature for Aikido techniques

Our organisation call ai hanmi 'gyaku [hanmi] katate-dori', which to most I believe would be completely the wrong way around There aren't really any standards.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2009, 04:24 PM   #4
ironicon
Location: Cologne
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3
Austria
Offline
Re: History of nomenclature for Aikido techniques

Quote:
Not everybody uses the same name for the same technique.
Quote:
There aren't really any standards.
Too bad! I guess that's the librarian in me who wants to see nice little organisations schemes everywhere..

Thanks for your answers!
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2009, 04:28 PM   #5
dps
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,157
Offline
Re: History of nomenclature for Aikido techniques

Quote:
Peter Mayr wrote: View Post
Too bad! I guess that's the librarian in me who wants to see nice little organisations schemes everywhere..

Thanks for your answers!
Hmmm, Aikido classified by the Dewey Decimal System.
Sounds just the project for a librarian.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2009, 04:32 PM   #6
ironicon
Location: Cologne
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3
Austria
Offline
Re: History of nomenclature for Aikido techniques

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
Hmmm, Aikido classified by the Dewey Decimal System.
Sounds just the project for a librarian.
Dewey is soo last year
My goal was to go in the direction of the Colon Classification http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colon_classification with the faces "attack", "technique", "mode"

-> "ai-hanmi" : "ikkyo" : "omote waza"

all the best,

peter
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2009, 05:42 PM   #7
CitoMaramba
 
CitoMaramba's Avatar
Dojo: Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui Group Philippines
Location: Plymouth, UK
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 492
Philippines
Offline
Re: History of nomenclature for Aikido techniques

Quote:
Peter Mayr wrote: View Post
Dewey is soo last year
My goal was to go in the direction of the Colon Classification http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colon_classification with the faces "attack", "technique", "mode"

-> "ai-hanmi" : "ikkyo" : "omote waza"

all the best,

peter
"ai-hanmi" is not an attack, it is a description of the stances of tori and uke relative to each other.

http://www.aikidojournal.com/encyclopedia?entryID=8
Quote:
AI HANMI 相半身
Same, or matched stance. Attacker and defender have the same foot forward. See GYAKU HANMI.
The complete description of the attack would be "ai hanmi katate-dori" (matched stance one hand grab); some dojos would use "ai hanmi kosa-dori" or simply "kosa-dori" (cross hand grab)... Yoshinkan
dojos would use "katate aya-mochi".
As for the mode, where Aikikai dojos would use "omote" and "ura", Yoshinkan dojos would simply use "ichi" (one) and "ni" (two).

Here is an example:
Aikikai:
Gyaku hanmi Katate-dori Shiho-Nage Ura
Yoshinkan:
Katate-mochi Shiho Nage (Ni)

Both describe essentially the same technique.

Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2009, 05:52 PM   #8
dps
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,157
Offline
Re: History of nomenclature for Aikido techniques

Quote:
Peter Mayr wrote: View Post
Dewey is soo last year
Well, so am I.

David
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2009, 09:30 PM   #9
jimbaker
Dojo: Aikido of Norfolk/ Aikido Society of Memphis
Location: Norfolk, VA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 150
Antarctica
Offline
Re: History of nomenclature for Aikido techniques

Terry Dobson said that in all his time at Hombu he never heard O-Sensei call any technique by name.

Jim Baker

Jim Baker
Aikido of Norfolk
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2009, 10:27 PM   #10
rob_liberti
Dojo: Shobu Aikido of Connecticut
Location: East Haven, CT
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,402
United_States
Offline
Re: History of nomenclature for Aikido techniques

Colon notation would be difficult. It might be something like
"relative vertical" : "relative horizontal" : "attack" : "technique" : "mode"

Examples:
"tachi-tori / suwari-waza / hanmi handachi" :
"ai-hanmi / gyaku-hanmi / ushiro-waza" :
"shomen-uchi / yokomen-uchi / etc." :
"ikkyo" :
"omote waza"

As an aside, I never could much care about ai-hanmi verse gyaku-hanmi. Whenever someone corrects my initial stance prior to my symbolic attack, I generally just thank them and think "give me a break; what's the big difference here?!"

Rob
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2009, 01:25 AM   #11
observer
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 80
United_States
Offline
Re: History of nomenclature for Aikido techniques

Quote:
Mike Braxton wrote: View Post
For example, shihonage just means four direction throw but it in no way describes what is being done.
Actually, it does make sense to read it as a 'full turn' throw. What means that you are facing four directions (North,East,South,West).
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2009, 02:47 AM   #12
dalen7
 
dalen7's Avatar
Dojo: Karcag Aikido Club
Location: Karcag
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 750
Hungary
Offline
Re: History of nomenclature for Aikido techniques

Here are a couple of differences for you:

- Hijikime Osae = Rokkyo

- Ryote Tori: Koshinage Kote Hineri = Ryote Tori: Koshinage Sankyo

Also it seems everyone uses the term Kaiten Nage, where as we use the distinction of Uchi Kaiten Nage [under the arm on the inside] and Soto Kaiten Nage [outside the arm]

Terms can be fun, especially when they start to sound the same...

Peace

dAlen

dAlen [day•lynn]
dum spiro spero - {While I have breathe - I have hope}

Art
http://www.lightofinfinity.org

Philosophical
http://dalen7.wordpress.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2009, 06:02 AM   #13
CitoMaramba
 
CitoMaramba's Avatar
Dojo: Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui Group Philippines
Location: Plymouth, UK
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 492
Philippines
Offline
Re: History of nomenclature for Aikido techniques

And then there's the Shodokan (Tomiki) nomenclature which is also different

Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2009, 10:33 AM   #14
akiy
 
akiy's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 5,847
Offline
Re: History of nomenclature for Aikido techniques

Here is the "Cross-Style Aikido Technique Names Reference Chart" article in the AikiWeb AikiWiki:

http://www.aikiweb.com/wiki/Techniqueschart

Although not "historical," per se, the chart may give you directions in which to conduct research into the technique names.

From what I understand, the names were not introduced by the founder but were applied by folks such as Kisshomaru Ueshiba sensei and Koichi Tohei sensei. Can anyone clarify?

I agree that many of the names are not very descriptive but are post-scriptive at best and jargon on average. If you go up to a non-budo-practicing Japanese person and ask them to do "shihonage," "ikkyo/ikkajo," "kaitennage," or myriad other aikido techniques, they would most likely have no idea how -- just as asking someone to do the "four direction throw" in an English speaking country would most likely yield the same, puzzled results. Even the more descriptive names (in my mind) as "kote mawashi" (nikyo) wouldn't mean much to people who didn't already know what the term mean.

Just my thoughts.

-- Jun

Please help support AikiWeb -- become an AikiWeb Contributing Member!
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2009, 11:47 AM   #15
dalen7
 
dalen7's Avatar
Dojo: Karcag Aikido Club
Location: Karcag
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 750
Hungary
Offline
Re: History of nomenclature for Aikido techniques

Just for interest sake, here is a [complete] list of techniques learned 6th - 1st kyu in my organization. [minus attack names]

The main differences is that we have Uchi & Soto Kaiten Nage, along with Omote & Ura versions of them. [They are not one and the same.]

Also note that Gyaku Kote Gaeshi is not the same as Gyaku Hanmi Kote Gaeshi - [its not an attack - the difference is the hand used in the Kote Gaeshi technique... which is the one mirroring the attacker.]

Other than that we have some of the older name conventions, as pointed out... not sure about the 1st Kyu stuff which has an (*) asterik beside it.

Indeed the names can vary widely between organizations, and the list Jun gave does help...

Peace

dAlen

Nage Waza: Throwing Techniques

Shiho Nage
Irimi Nage
Uchi & Soto Kaiten Nage............[Uchi Kaiten Sankyo]
Kote Gaeshi..............................[Gyaku Kote Gaeshi]

Udekime Nage
Tenchi Nage
Kubi Nage
Koshi Nage...............................[Koshi Nage Kote Hineri/Sankyo]

Kokyu Nage
Kokyu Ho

Sumi Otoshi
*Ganseki Otoshi
*Ushiro Kiri Otoshi
*Aiki Otoshi

*Juji Garami

Katame Waza: Pinning Techniques

Ikkyo
Nikkyo
Sankyo
Yankyo
Gokyo
Hijikime Osae/Rokkyo

Last edited by dalen7 : 07-25-2009 at 11:58 AM.

dAlen [day•lynn]
dum spiro spero - {While I have breathe - I have hope}

Art
http://www.lightofinfinity.org

Philosophical
http://dalen7.wordpress.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2009, 12:34 PM   #16
crbateman
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
crbateman's Avatar
Location: Orlando, FL
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,446
Offline
Re: History of nomenclature for Aikido techniques

IMHO you will never see a reunification of the naming conventions, any more than you will see reunification of the different ryus. Even if someone went to all the trouble of classifying and naming all the variations, there will be those who will not join the fold simply because they don't believe in conformity. You will most likely be taught some derivative of what your teacher was taught, which is likely a further derivative of what his/her teacher was taught, etc. etc. etc... Knowing the names is not nearly as important as knowing the techniques.
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Budo Bear Patterns - Sewing pattern for Women's (and Men's) dogi.



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Correlation of Aikido and Daito-Ryu Waza John Driscoll Columns 28 08-04-2013 05:01 PM
Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 10 Peter Goldsbury Columns 200 02-04-2009 06:45 AM
The "real" techniques not taught to everyone? MM Non-Aikido Martial Traditions 36 10-03-2008 10:03 AM
Different names for techniques AikidoNuB Techniques 5 10-19-2004 08:56 PM
Initial techniques Tom Techniques 28 03-16-2002 11:18 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:18 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate