Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-04-2009, 08:16 PM   #51
NagaBaba
 
NagaBaba's Avatar
Location: Wild, deep, deadly North
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,145
Offline
Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Quote:
Rabih Shanshiry wrote: View Post
I came across a relevant discussion in Gozo Shioda's "Aikido Shugyo" that seems germane to the topic at hand:

1. Shioda Kancho was a young, talented, and cocky Judoka who was skeptical of O Sensei's art. He thought it was fake...until he was invited to attack Ueshiba Sensei and discovered otherwise.

2. Three time All Japan Judo Champion Kimura Masahiko said to Shioda Kancho, "In terms of self-defence, Judo, which today has abandoned the use of atemi, has a lot to learn from Aikido."

Shioda Sensei held that the sporting aspect of Judo and other martial arts adapted for competition diluted their martial nature.
Hello Rabih ,
Before throwing from left and right the 'the relevant quotes' taken out of context, I'd suggest to read Peter A Goldsbury writings, here on aikiweb. Remember, he is watching you all time

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2009, 08:18 PM   #52
Ketsan
Dojo: Zanshin Kai
Location: Birmingham
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 860
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote: View Post
And aikido teachning doesn't have such tools.
I've never seen two instructors who teach the same way within Aikido. Within my own association there are aiki-faery teachers who produce students who can't do anything without a highly co-operative partner and there are teachers who produce students that you can't lift, can't move and are so powerful that you don't have a choice about being thrown.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2009, 08:31 PM   #53
NagaBaba
 
NagaBaba's Avatar
Location: Wild, deep, deadly North
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,145
Offline
Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
The crux of the issue is the intended duality in Aikido.

that is, it is a fighting art.

At the same time, I believe the intent of O Sensei was transcendental.

that is, learning to fight in order to learn peace...so to speak.

you can't have one without the other.

I don't think you should remove the tactical and fighitng side of the art. I don't think you can and still use it as the tool O Sensei intended it to be.
I agree at paradoxal nature of aikido teaching, but I don't see it as a duality, it is for me an excellent, well thought ' System'. It contains some martial aspects, but only someone very disrespectful for O sensei (or someone very naif) can see it as a fighting system.

All technical evidences are right in front of our eyes. The direct students of O sensei are teaching many things, but not fighting. How come someone can believe in a 'fighting' fantasy?

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2009, 08:33 PM   #54
NagaBaba
 
NagaBaba's Avatar
Location: Wild, deep, deadly North
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,145
Offline
Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Quote:
Alex Lawrence wrote: View Post
and there are teachers who produce students that you can't lift, can't move and are so powerful that you don't have a choice about being thrown.
Are you saying these instructors teach how to fight?

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2009, 09:49 PM   #55
DH
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
United_States
Offline
Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Interestingly enough Ueshiba was already considered superior…incredible even- by those IN Judo. Many, judoka showed up to challenge his stuff and he in turn showed up at the kodokan to toss guys. Some considered his technique dangerous to try and take.
Not without notice, Ueshiba's contemporaries; His teacher Takeda, his peer- Sagawa, Kodo, all did likewise-Sagawa while in his late seventies- was tossing around gold medal Olympic judoka. Hell even Kano called Ueshiba's aiki the highest form of Judo.

Since the superiority of the method (the power of aiki) over Judo has already been well established-what is the debate about? Just what are those in the art-doing-wrong? Where are the men who are doing Aikido as that same superior art? And why, (for those who are able) are any equivocating about judo's strengths to prevail against it? As is so typical in these debates, all have forgotten their heritage. It's even becoming popular to make excuses that Ueshiba was so different that it's unattainable and okay to be less. It's as if they hold it in abeyance not daring to be challenged by it or even hoping to fulfill it.
Oh well
Dan
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 05:05 AM   #56
Ketsan
Dojo: Zanshin Kai
Location: Birmingham
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 860
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote: View Post
Are you saying these instructors teach how to fight?
I'm saying these instructors can make you so powerful that knowing how to fight starts to become irrelevent. Let's say your opponent has a Thai boxing/BJJ skillset, we say that these kind of people are trained to fight. And lets imagine you have trained under one of the instructors I'm talking about.
Your posture is so good that it's impossible to take you down or throw you and you're so powerful that against his thai boxing you can just walk up to him, grab him and throw him around like a rag doll.
I'm not talking about your techniques being powerful, I'm talking about you being so powerful that you don't need technique.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 05:46 AM   #57
Demetrio Cereijo
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,913
Spain
Offline
Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Quote:
Alex Lawrence wrote: View Post
Your posture is so good that it's impossible to take you down or throw you and you're so powerful that against his thai boxing you can just walk up to him, grab him and throw him around like a rag doll.

I'm not talking about your techniques being powerful, I'm talking about you being so powerful that you don't need technique.
And who and where are these powerful people you're talking about?

  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 06:17 AM   #58
Shany
 
Shany's Avatar
Dojo: ISTA
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 163
Israel
Offline
Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Quote:
George Jones wrote: View Post
Interesting place, the internet. Log onto the forum for any discipline and you'll hear lots of stories proving that their art is the best, and giving numerous unverifiable examples of masters of other arts being defeated. Its always a bit surprising to step on the streets afterward and not have to pick your way through streets littered with the bodies of defeated proponents of inferior styles.

And yet, when you meet people from other styles in person, none of these unproven claims seem to arise, individuals don't claim that either they or their style is the best, and there's generally nothing but respect all around. I'm not sure if that's because people who really train can't be bothered to slag other styles and so the proclamations in question are made by beginners in the rush of enthusiasm for a new activity, or if the people who put down other styles are simply too cowardly to do it in person when they meet a disciple of a different style. The effect however is quite pronounced, and I suspect anyone who has done any martial discipline has noted it.
Actually, some Karate user (in the dojo I train) used to bash me about Aikido, and its applications (He claimed to study Aikido for 3 years prior to Karate). He did that during a conversation I had with a Karate user asking me what Aikido is.

I think a lot of people are driven by ego to preserve the Art that they are so souly practicing by actively show them the how their art is superior.

A good stance and posture reflects a proper state of mind
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 06:35 AM   #59
DonMagee
Location: Indiana
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,311
United_States
Offline
Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Quote:
Alex Lawrence wrote: View Post
I'm saying these instructors can make you so powerful that knowing how to fight starts to become irrelevent. Let's say your opponent has a Thai boxing/BJJ skillset, we say that these kind of people are trained to fight. And lets imagine you have trained under one of the instructors I'm talking about.
Your posture is so good that it's impossible to take you down or throw you and you're so powerful that against his thai boxing you can just walk up to him, grab him and throw him around like a rag doll.
I'm not talking about your techniques being powerful, I'm talking about you being so powerful that you don't need technique.
I say extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Life experience and physics both tell me that I will never be unthrowable. The same tells me that if I just walk up to a well trained boxer who is out to knock me out without using good technique to properly defend myself that I'm going to need facial reconstructive surgery.

Example: Forrest Griffin once kicked a reporter in the leg. He broke it.He fights at 205. I walk around at 160. He is a pro athlete who spends all day learning to fight, I am a computer jockey who spends a few hours a week. If you can find me an instructor who can teach me to walk up to forrest, call him a pansy and spit on him, and watch his blows glance off me as I effortlessly walk up to him and taken him down, well then I will give you 85% of my UFC winnings.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 06:41 AM   #60
Ketsan
Dojo: Zanshin Kai
Location: Birmingham
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 860
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
And who and where are these powerful people you're talking about?
Birmingham.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 06:51 AM   #61
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,803
United_States
Offline
Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Eventually, every one of these discussions starts to sound to me like AD&D gamers arguing about whether a level 3 orc can defeat a level 2 lawful paladin and how many 20-sided dice you have to roll to figure it out.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 06:56 AM   #62
Rabih Shanshiry
 
Rabih Shanshiry's Avatar
Location: Boston/MA
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 197
United_States
Offline
Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote: View Post
Hello Rabih ,
Before throwing from left and right the 'the relevant quotes' taken out of context, I'd suggest to read Peter A Goldsbury writings, here on aikiweb. Remember, he is watching you all time
Szczepan,

Can you point me to the specific writings of Mr. Goldsbury that you have in mind? I'm a rookie on the board but would very interested to learn more.

Thanks,
...rab
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 07:25 AM   #63
Ketsan
Dojo: Zanshin Kai
Location: Birmingham
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 860
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Quote:
Don Magee wrote: View Post
I say extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Life experience and physics both tell me that I will never be unthrowable. The same tells me that if I just walk up to a well trained boxer who is out to knock me out without using good technique to properly defend myself that I'm going to need facial reconstructive surgery.

Example: Forrest Griffin once kicked a reporter in the leg. He broke it.He fights at 205. I walk around at 160. He is a pro athlete who spends all day learning to fight, I am a computer jockey who spends a few hours a week. If you can find me an instructor who can teach me to walk up to forrest, call him a pansy and spit on him, and watch his blows glance off me as I effortlessly walk up to him and taken him down, well then I will give you 85% of my UFC winnings.
a) Is that legally binding?
b) How much money are we talking about?

I'm in the position of not wanting to speak for individual instructors, I can only tell you what I have witnessed. They're not unthrowable, it's just that no-one I've ever trained with either in Jujutsu, Judo or elsewhere in Aikido is going to throw them and no-one I've trained with outside of these people has posture as strong as these guys.

Until you feel it for yourself you wont believe it. If you're ever over here I'll ask about taking you down, I can't imagine that being a problem. Just make sure you've got a week or so to recover.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 07:34 AM   #64
Demetrio Cereijo
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,913
Spain
Offline
Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Quote:
Alex Lawrence wrote: View Post
Birmingham.
Zanshin-Kai Aikido Club at Sutton Coldfield perhaps?

  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 07:36 AM   #65
Ketsan
Dojo: Zanshin Kai
Location: Birmingham
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 860
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
Zanshin-Kai Aikido Club at Sutton Coldfield perhaps?
Close but no, that's where I train. Although I suppose you know that.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 07:42 AM   #66
DonMagee
Location: Indiana
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,311
United_States
Offline
Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Quote:
Alex Lawrence wrote: View Post
a) Is that legally binding?
b) How much money are we talking about?

I'm in the position of not wanting to speak for individual instructors, I can only tell you what I have witnessed. They're not unthrowable, it's just that no-one I've ever trained with either in Jujutsu, Judo or elsewhere in Aikido is going to throw them and no-one I've trained with outside of these people has posture as strong as these guys.

Until you feel it for yourself you wont believe it. If you're ever over here I'll ask about taking you down, I can't imagine that being a problem. Just make sure you've got a week or so to recover.
Rather then answer your questions. I think I'm going to use an aikido tactic here and just tell you that you havn't trained with the right judo, jiujitsu, or thai people or trained with them long enough.

I'm sorry, but seriously you rmaking the claim that you know people who could not only walk though Forrest Griffins strikes like he was a child, but teach me, an uncoordinated nitwit to do it?

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 07:43 AM   #67
Ketsan
Dojo: Zanshin Kai
Location: Birmingham
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 860
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Eventually, every one of these discussions starts to sound to me like AD&D gamers arguing about whether a level 3 orc can defeat a level 2 lawful paladin and how many 20-sided dice you have to roll to figure it out.
They've moved on to WOW. Back in the day it was "The only thing between you and black belt is you." These days it's "The only thing between you and black belt is you and WOW."
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 08:01 AM   #68
Ketsan
Dojo: Zanshin Kai
Location: Birmingham
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 860
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Quote:
Don Magee wrote: View Post
Rather then answer your questions. I think I'm going to use an aikido tactic here and just tell you that you havn't trained with the right judo, jiujitsu, or thai people or trained with them long enough.

I'm sorry, but seriously you rmaking the claim that you know people who could not only walk though Forrest Griffins strikes like he was a child, but teach me, an uncoordinated nitwit to do it?
No I'm making the claim that I know of and have trained with people with, in my opinion since I have not scientifically measured it, far more power and much better posture than any other martial artists I have ever trained with and that said people are Aikidoka. And that is my opinion that their posture and power is such that I doubt most other martial artists could deal with it.

I also make the claim that there are tactics and strategies common to all Aikidoka for dealing with strikers.
I also see no reason why most people couldn't be taught all this.

I make no claims about Forrest Griffins, I've never met the guy and I don't know what he's capable of. For all I know he might secretly train with a chinese immortal who invented martial arts 6000 years ago.

Last edited by Ketsan : 05-05-2009 at 08:07 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 08:09 AM   #69
Nicholas Eschenbruch
Dojo: TV Denzlingen
Location: Freiburg
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 308
Germany
Offline
Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Eventually, every one of these discussions starts to sound to me like AD&D gamers arguing about whether a level 3 orc can defeat a level 2 lawful paladin and how many 20-sided dice you have to roll to figure it out.
Thanks, that really made me laugh!
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 08:42 AM   #70
georgejjr
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 4
Offline
Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Interestingly enough Ueshiba was already considered superior…incredible even- by those IN Judo. Many, judoka showed up to challenge his stuff and he in turn showed up at the kodokan to toss guys. Some considered his technique dangerous to try and take.
Not without notice, Ueshiba's contemporaries; His teacher Takeda, his peer- Sagawa, Kodo, all did likewise-Sagawa while in his late seventies- was tossing around gold medal Olympic judoka. Hell even Kano called Ueshiba's aiki the highest form of Judo.

Since the superiority of the method (the power of aiki) over Judo has already been well established-what is the debate about? Just what are those in the art-doing-wrong? Where are the men who are doing Aikido as that same superior art? And why, (for those who are able) are any equivocating about judo's strengths to prevail against it? As is so typical in these debates, all have forgotten their heritage. It's even becoming popular to make excuses that Ueshiba was so different that it's unattainable and okay to be less. It's as if they hold it in abeyance not daring to be challenged by it or even hoping to fulfill it.
Oh well
Dan
I have to wonder if you're really that naive? Seventy year old judo instructors throw around Olympic level judoka in randori all the time as well (you see it regularly at the Kodokan in fact). In fact, 95 year old Fukuda sensei (who could often barely get out of her wheelchair) did the same regularly. You might be able to guess why ... or do aikidoka show no respect to their elders?

Ueshiba was definitely an exceptional fighter, but there is no evidence that he ever did randori with Kano or Mifune, the two greatest judoka of his time. So you draw deep conclusions from the fact that the greatest of aikidoka was able to throw around judoka who would also have been thrown around by Kano, Mifune, and many other judoka? There are aikidoka who have lost in MMA. I'm guessing your response would rightly be to question the ability of the aikidoka, and to point out they weren't the great masters ... and hopefully see the parallel to what you're doing. In fact, most style vs style threads come down to the same - master from A beats non-master from B, hence proving the superiority of A. The other thing they have in common is that they generally don't actually test their theory against live opponents. It'd be pretty easy for you to find an Olympic judoka and do randori with him to confirm the superiority you so lightly proclaim. And then easy for anyone in the judo community to ask that Olympian if it really happened ... or even to watch it on you-tube.

The Gracies operated on those lines (though they were cautious enough to do their "invasion" at the club of a 50 year old who never medaled internationally), and if nothing else you at least have to give them credit for starting to test their theory instead of putting them out from the safety of a keyboard.

Kano's comment about aikido shows deep admiration for the techniques and style of aikido, but if Kano believed aikido was superior he'd have quit judo and studied aikido himself, or at the minimum incorporated it directly into judo, as he did with several styles (such as he did with Fusen-ryu, and even elements of western wrestling). Kano seems to have admired the principles of aikido (and there is much to admire there) - but there's a huge difference between that and saying the other was superior, and in general only the very close minded cannot find things to admire in other disciplines.

If you're going to speak about other martial arts, you might consider at least learning a bit about them before hand. The short history of judo is full of examples of taking elements from other styles and incorporating them into judo. I suspect Kano took principles from aikido as well, but almost none of the techniques, and for the same reason he wouldn't have taken techniques from boxing for judo's atemi waza ... it involves a different range.

Last edited by georgejjr : 05-05-2009 at 08:56 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 09:31 AM   #71
NagaBaba
 
NagaBaba's Avatar
Location: Wild, deep, deadly North
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,145
Offline
Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Quote:
Rabih Shanshiry wrote: View Post
Szczepan,

Can you point me to the specific writings of Mr. Goldsbury that you have in mind? I'm a rookie on the board but would very interested to learn more.

Thanks,
...rab
AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Columns -> Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation....

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 09:35 AM   #72
NagaBaba
 
NagaBaba's Avatar
Location: Wild, deep, deadly North
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,145
Offline
Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Quote:
Chuck Clark wrote: View Post
Hi Szczepan, I heard a long time ago that the hardest and most important thing about budo practice is finding the right teacher. I think it's true.
Hello Chuck,
What do you think, the right teacher, what will be easier for him to develop martial aspect of art:
1. having as a primary material 3rd dan of judo
2. having as a primary material 3rd dan of aikido?

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 09:46 AM   #73
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

My preference is 3rd dan judo as primary material. I'll say it again, I think I'd have a MUCH better base with judo. Perhaps not as much the competition based stuff, but even with only that...those guys have a solid base to build on.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 09:55 AM   #74
NagaBaba
 
NagaBaba's Avatar
Location: Wild, deep, deadly North
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,145
Offline
Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Quote:
Alex Lawrence wrote: View Post
I'm saying these instructors can make you so powerful that knowing how to fight starts to become irrelevent. Let's say your opponent has a Thai boxing/BJJ skillset, we say that these kind of people are trained to fight. And lets imagine you have trained under one of the instructors I'm talking about.
Your posture is so good that it's impossible to take you down or throw you and you're so powerful that against his thai boxing you can just walk up to him, grab him and throw him around like a rag doll.
I'm not talking about your techniques being powerful, I'm talking about you being so powerful that you don't need technique.
Hi Alex,
As I suspected, we are having a difficulty to establish a common vocabulary - that is a meaning of 'fighting'. I think you tend to see it as a sportif competition.I don't. Fighting has a broader meaning to me.
Additionally, from my point of view, having a immobile posture and being very powerful are not the most two desired proprieties of a fighter.In fact it can very easy become the biggest weakness in the fight.
In conclusion, I still don't see any proof that aikido as a system can produce a skilled fighters.
Of course, we may find one or even five individuals among aikidoka around the world, that learned how to fight during their aikido training(were they genetically gifted?), but if you see a global number of all aikido students, it is a really poor result.

I'll give you down to earth example: I as a software developer create an application that is able to calculate accurately once or twice for one millon operation, the rest of the results are beautiful pictures.What will be the real goal of this application?

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 01:18 PM   #75
Ketsan
Dojo: Zanshin Kai
Location: Birmingham
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 860
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote: View Post
Hi Alex,
As I suspected, we are having a difficulty to establish a common vocabulary - that is a meaning of 'fighting'. I think you tend to see it as a sportif competition.I don't. Fighting has a broader meaning to me.
Additionally, from my point of view, having a immobile posture and being very powerful are not the most two desired proprieties of a fighter.In fact it can very easy become the biggest weakness in the fight.
In conclusion, I still don't see any proof that aikido as a system can produce a skilled fighters.
Of course, we may find one or even five individuals among aikidoka around the world, that learned how to fight during their aikido training(were they genetically gifted?), but if you see a global number of all aikido students, it is a really poor result.

I'll give you down to earth example: I as a software developer create an application that is able to calculate accurately once or twice for one millon operation, the rest of the results are beautiful pictures.What will be the real goal of this application?
Depends on the intention. Whether your program lives up to the intention is another matter.

Fighting has such a broad meaning to me that I find it almost to be a meaningless word, so I chose a narrow example of thai boxing/bjj because it covers a large area of potential skill set.

Not an immobile posture an immovable posture. Perhaps base is a better term. To my way of thinking agility and speed of movement is one of the hallmarks of good Aikido, as is good solid posture/base. There's no point entering rapidly into a clinch only to find your posture/base is weak.

I don't quite share your pessimism though. It's an article of faith more than anything that Aikidoka can't fight; there's no real evidence one way or the other. Aikidoka just don't get into fights enough to provide the data to draw conclusions. If you know wheather Aikido teaches fighting or not you're either unlucky enough to have been assaulted numerous times or you're a criminal.
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Aikido DVDs and Video Downloads - by George Ledyard Sensei & other great teachers from AikidoDVDS.Com



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
So I took a Judo class today... shihonage General 107 06-16-2013 03:30 PM
Aikido in Amsterdam, Terry Lax style... tiyler_durden General 11 11-03-2008 08:31 AM
Elusive Realism Stefan Stenudd Columns 4 09-23-2008 04:18 AM
Highest Level Martial Arts and Aikido Mike Sigman General 240 08-12-2005 06:22 PM
Tales of Judo Sparring Aikidoists PeterR General 242 06-10-2005 11:13 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:07 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate