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Old 04-22-2009, 07:44 PM   #1
aikishrine
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Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

I was wondering of those of you who have or still do train in both arts, which one do you find more martial?
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Old 04-22-2009, 09:59 PM   #2
Ketsan
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Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Quote:
Brian Northrup wrote: View Post
I was wondering of those of you who have or still do train in both arts, which one do you find more martial?
Aikido, easily. Aikido on the other hand is life and death and about how you live. On the other hand there's no attempt in Judo to think about anything outside of shiai. What happens if you chuck an Aikidoka on his back? He get's up and hits you. If you chuck a Judoka on his back it's an ippon and the match is over. There's a vastly different mentality there.
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Old 04-23-2009, 01:48 AM   #3
Amir Krause
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Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Funny

Myself, who train Aikido for a long time (Yondasha ranks) only trained Judo as a chiled for less then 1 year. Always have lots of respect for the Martial aspects of Judo.

A friend, who trained Judo for lots of years (until Kyu 1) and joined Aikido after I transmited the bug to. Keeps telling me how our Aikido is so much more martial then Judo.

Each of us knows first hand the problems with the methodology of the M.A. he trained for long, and so, the neighbours yard looks so much better.


Amir
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Old 04-23-2009, 05:37 AM   #4
James Edwards
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Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

2 martial arts, different approach I guess.

In judo you have resistance but no atemi, in aikido it's less resistance but so much possibility for atemi.

It's really quite hard to judge. It probably boils down to the training nature if you have to judge. In judo there is competition, but there are rules to competition. In aikido there is for and no competition but the aikidoka is more free to apply more martial variations of techniques in case it is needed.

I would say some styles of aikido are more martial but I'm biased right?
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Old 04-23-2009, 09:12 AM   #5
NagaBaba
 
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Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Quote:
Brian Northrup wrote: View Post
I was wondering of those of you who have or still do train in both arts, which one do you find more martial?
Judo, without any doubt.

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
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Old 04-23-2009, 09:17 AM   #6
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Judo for basics to build a platform for the everything else. Still regret not doing judo for any substantial period of time.

If you have a good base, aikido becomes so much more.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 04-23-2009, 09:33 AM   #7
Aikibu
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Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

More Martial??? That's up to you really...

I have practiced both... Judo for 20 years and now Aikido for over 20 and there appears to be no difference to me.

William Hazen
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Old 04-23-2009, 09:56 AM   #8
Anjisan
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Talking Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

I have only practiced Aikido, Karate (American kickboxing and traditional) and BJJ, but it seems to me that Aikido would be. Specifically, I think that training to deal with multiple attackers is an advantage for Aikido (which I go round and round with the BJJ crowd with--it is more of a mano y mano art like Judo) and I am unsure how judo deals with kicks and punches as well as strikes overall.

Doesn't most training being from a clinch??? I am sure that there are Judo instructors who address these issues, it just doesn't seem like it would be the norm at judo dojos since competition is the larger goal. I mean, the Japanese police (riot police) usually learn aikido/ aikijutsu as opposed to judo do they not??? Finally, did Master Kano send his most senior student/s to train with Osensei? More than Aikido just being a new novelty on the martial arts landscape I would like to believe he too saw the martial potential of Aikido.
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Old 04-23-2009, 09:56 AM   #9
phitruong
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Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

i am still trying to figure out what is "martial"? if it meant being able to inflict damages, then I'll vote for the sidewalk. the other day, a sidewalk jumped out and smacked the living daylight out of me; while the bushes laughed and said "my turn next".

wonder if there is a kwoncrete-do or bush-es-do.
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:04 AM   #10
Beard of Chuck Norris
 
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Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Didn't Kano himself say that Judo wasn't really a martial art but a physical system?
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Old 04-23-2009, 11:10 AM   #11
Flintstone
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Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

ĦAikido and Judo are one and the same!
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Old 04-23-2009, 11:15 AM   #12
Aikibu
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Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Quote:
Jo Duncan wrote: View Post
Didn't Kano himself say that Judo wasn't really a martial art but a physical system?
Yup...so when someone asks like "Which is more Martial" I like to ask them what they mean by Martial.

Both Aikido and Judo are Gendai "Arts" and have a different "approach" to "Martial" than The Koryu Arts they originated from...

WIlliam Hazen
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Old 04-23-2009, 05:29 PM   #13
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

neither as they are both DO arts (methodologies based on jiujitsu) that have as a primary endstate character, spiritual or personal growth objectives...based on a martial system, as such, they are concerned holisitcally with development.

That said, they are both great warrior methodologies to produce effective warriors if training is approached the right way.

Not really a question that you can answer. it's like saying which is better a phillips head screw driver or a flat head?

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Old 04-23-2009, 10:39 PM   #14
PeterR
 
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Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Well a judoka is more likely to make what he talks about work where a Aikidoist will often just talk. Until you can demonstrate that you can even make a portion of what you do work under trying circumstance all this life and death posturing is just that.

I'll put my pennies with Judo any day.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:53 PM   #15
Chuck Clark
 
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Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Then there are those of us that do both and see little difference... waza fits the need and "jutsu" is efficiency and "do" is the way of life. They can be both sides of the same thing. The kokoro of the person is what can be martial when needed and create the right tool.

Greetings Peter... long time, eh?

Chuck Clark
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Old 04-24-2009, 12:38 AM   #16
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Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Quote:
Chuck Clark wrote: View Post
Then there are those of us that do both and see little difference... waza fits the need and "jutsu" is efficiency and "do" is the way of life. They can be both sides of the same thing. The kokoro of the person is what can be martial when needed and create the right tool.

Greetings Peter... long time, eh?
Agree. Stating the obvious but these questions/arguments often revolve around some pretty big assumptions about one art or the other. Usually the one not being practiced but also about ones own art.

Yeah - I've been hiding in China. Seems all the things I want to say on Aikiweb have already been said - so I lurk.

Actually gave a class back in Japan last week and may be setting up a club here in Shanghai relatively soon.

Hope all is well.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 04-24-2009, 01:40 AM   #17
Aikibu
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Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Quote:
Peter Rehse wrote: View Post
Well a judoka is more likely to make what he talks about work where a Aikidoist will often just talk. Until you can demonstrate that you can even make a portion of what you do work under trying circumstance all this life and death posturing is just that.

I'll put my pennies with Judo any day.
I recognize Irony when I read it....

William Hazen
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Old 04-24-2009, 02:36 AM   #18
L. Camejo
 
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Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Quote:
Brian Northrup wrote: View Post
I was wondering of those of you who have or still do train in both arts, which one do you find more martial?
What is your definition of martial? Each method has its pros and cons and both work well when one knows when to use which. The definition of what is "martial" is important since it determines the mindset that is required to express stated "martial-ness". Afaic someone with the correct mindset and knowledge can weaponize anything if they need to.

Just my 2 cents. Long time no see Peter.

LC

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
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Old 04-24-2009, 02:58 AM   #19
PeterR
 
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Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Quote:
William Hazen wrote: View Post
I recognize Irony when I read it....

William Hazen
Not really - done a tad of Judo here and there also.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 04-24-2009, 06:17 AM   #20
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Hey Peter! Just a tad, right? (In a pigs eye...)

Best,
Ron (good reading you again, Nei hau ma?)

Ron Tisdale
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Old 04-24-2009, 07:12 AM   #21
aikishrine
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Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

I didnt mean to start a "what art is better" discussion. I was just curious to know what peoples opinions were on which art they thought was more street effective. I believe that both have good and bad points. For instance i think that Aikido has a lot of great throws, but its suwari waza has little or no positive application to a street situation. Where as Judo ground fighting has some good street applications in a one on one situation but not for multiple attackers. As far as Judo throws there are some great hand, hip, and shoulder throws but i think that the foot sweeps are of little use IMHO.

Please keep the feedback coming.
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Old 04-24-2009, 07:16 AM   #22
Flintstone
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Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Quote:
Brian Northrup wrote: View Post
[...] but i think that the foot sweeps are of little use IMHO.
I cannot buy that.
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Old 04-24-2009, 07:45 AM   #23
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Neither can I. Foot sweeps are great setups for off-balancing prior to other throws, even if they don't cause a throw on their own, and they often do.

I believe some of the Nisei judoka used to practice kicking a tire around a field to practice their sweeps. Now imagine someone used to doing that grabbing you, pushing you around, and sweeping your feet that hard.

Can you say OUCH?
B,
R

Ron Tisdale
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Old 04-24-2009, 09:06 AM   #24
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Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote: View Post
Neither can I. Foot sweeps are great setups for off-balancing prior to other throws, even if they don't cause a throw on their own, and they often do.

I believe some of the Nisei judoka used to practice kicking a tire around a field to practice their sweeps. Now imagine someone used to doing that grabbing you, pushing you around, and sweeping your feet that hard.

Can you say OUCH?
B,
R
Hi Ron,
A tire? The tires are for children. The Real Judo Fighter practice sweeps on tree trunk or elecrical pillar. < - it is not a joke.

Hi Peter, long way from Quebec to China, very impressive!

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
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Old 04-24-2009, 09:13 AM   #25
NagaBaba
 
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Re: Aikido or Judo, which is more martial?

Quote:
Chuck Clark wrote: View Post
Then there are those of us that do both and see little difference... waza fits the need and "jutsu" is efficiency and "do" is the way of life. They can be both sides of the same thing. The kokoro of the person is what can be martial when needed and create the right tool.

Greetings Peter... long time, eh?
The only thing Chuck, that a fresh beginner will learn this kind of spirit much faster with right judo instructor then in aikido.
And I agree with Peter, most aikidoka only talk.

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
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