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Old 04-22-2009, 07:50 PM   #51
Ketsan
Dojo: Zanshin Kai
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Re: YouTube: Aikido v MMA

Quote:
Salim Shaw wrote: View Post
I think more than anything he is questioning the training methods of Aikido. Choreographed patterns of movements that are practiced extensively are the standard training method in Aikido. Freestyle and or LIVE training are not generally encouraged. Often frowned upon by some. There are some Aikido dojos that due encourage LIVE training or freestyle, but not nearly the standard among many dojos. The one handed Aikidoka in the video is training using LIVE/Freestyle type training. That method of practice is not standard in Aikido. Arts such as Brazilian Jujutsu are almost 90 percent LIVE training. The Kata system is not used much in BJJ and definitely looked at as an unproven method. That's what Bas Rutten was trying to point out. He indicated that some Aikido pins can work at a close distance, wrist locks that is.
What other range would a grappling art work at?
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Old 04-23-2009, 07:01 AM   #52
salim
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Re: YouTube: Aikido v MMA

Quote:
Alex Lawrence wrote: View Post
What other range would a grappling art work at?
Again, it's the poor training that exist in many Aikido dojos and or some unrealistic techniques that are in question against a resisting opponent. Bas Rutten basically indicated that it would be pretty difficult to catch, boxing like punches to execute a wrist lock or arm lock. Once you are in some kind of a clinch with the opponent then then you have a greater chance to execute a wrist lock or arm lock. The below videos explain a little of what I mean. The techniques in the below videos would have to be practice in LIVE sparring situations to really become accustom to executing against resistance. Again it's the training methods that's really being question.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPe8-...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7GfQdB9a8Y

Last edited by salim : 04-23-2009 at 07:10 AM.
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Old 04-23-2009, 11:42 AM   #53
Ketsan
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Re: YouTube: Aikido v MMA

Quote:
Salim Shaw wrote: View Post
Again, it's the poor training that exist in many Aikido dojos and or some unrealistic techniques that are in question against a resisting opponent. Bas Rutten basically indicated that it would be pretty difficult to catch, boxing like punches to execute a wrist lock or arm lock. Once you are in some kind of a clinch with the opponent then then you have a greater chance to execute a wrist lock or arm lock. The below videos explain a little of what I mean. The techniques in the below videos would have to be practice in LIVE sparring situations to really become accustom to executing against resistance. Again it's the training methods that's really being question.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPe8-...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7GfQdB9a8Y
If I wanted to announce to a group of Aikidoka that I knew nothing about Aikido I'd say something like "You can't catch boxing punches" and I'd expect to be laughed at for thinking anyone said that it was possible in the first place.

In the space of 20 seconds it is possible to demonstrate that Aikido is effective against a boxer and possible to teach someone how to prevent your opponent throwing straight punches by dominating the center line. He's been a professional fighter, he should know this and he should be able to see it in Aikido.

Then there's the technique thing, there are no techniques in Aikido, techniques are in fact the antithesis of Aikido. Anyone that talks about techniques unrealistic or not has missed the point entirely. More important than technique is dominance which is central to Aikido even if we go about it in an unusual way. If you're practicing Aikido correctly there shouldn't be a live situation.

Last edited by Ketsan : 04-23-2009 at 11:45 AM.
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Old 04-23-2009, 01:16 PM   #54
salim
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Re: YouTube: Aikido v MMA

Sure, the same could be said for a BJJ practitioner or any Jujutsu guy. Simplify it more and use a gun. That always works.
Subjective, philosophical terminologies for what is and isn't a technique leads to a circular conversation. Wrist locks and Arm bars are application techniques. Wrist locks and Arm bars are part of Aikido. The method in which you utilize them is the debate here.

Dominance is not always an option in any given situation. You want always beat your opponent before he/she strikes or grabs or pulls, maybe even reversing or simply trying to apply the same technique. Demonstrations don't prepare you for dealing with a resisting opponent from various angles of sparring. It's one reason BJJ guys almost exclusively, never use demonstrations methods.

They have to be tested in LIVE sparring/training, situation. BJJ is Aikido on the ground. Some of the same principles of redirecting, blending and leveraging, as oppose to meeting force head on. You don't rely on strength for either.
The difference is the level of intensity in training among BJJ practitioners verse Aikido practitioners in general. You will always have those who among Aikidoka who believe in LIVE training. I certainly do.

Last edited by salim : 04-23-2009 at 01:19 PM.
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Old 04-23-2009, 03:53 PM   #55
Nathan Wallace
 
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Re: YouTube: Aikido v MMA

this is sad, all of this. its just sad.

Northern Virginia Tenshinkai Aikido
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Old 04-23-2009, 04:50 PM   #56
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: YouTube: Aikido v MMA

why is it sad?

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Old 04-24-2009, 11:11 AM   #57
Nathan Wallace
 
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Re: YouTube: Aikido v MMA

it's the same tired arguments again and again, nobody is going to change their mind here because its become a matter of pride.

I'll post a video later to show some of my responses.

Northern Virginia Tenshinkai Aikido
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Old 04-24-2009, 01:21 PM   #58
salim
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Re: YouTube: Aikido v MMA

Quote:
Paul Wallace wrote: View Post
it's the same tired arguments again and again, nobody is going to change their mind here because its become a matter of pride.

I'll post a video later to show some of my responses.
Whatever you post, please don't post the same old tired demonstrations we see over and over again on youtube and everywhere else on the internet. Every other Aikido dojo in the country demonstrates hype. Demonstrations prove nothing, but hypothetical theory. We need to see something that really substantiates your argument. Perhaps live, friendly, controlled sparring of some sort.

Jujutsu dojos are believable because they prove with live, friendly, controlled, professional sparring. Test your methods with true integrity. I believe the one handed Aikido guy in the videos below, because he really tested himself and his ability, it was clearly shown. Maybe not the best sparring or best methods, but it shows integrity. It's respectable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLqovX4G8Z0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwt9_...eature=related

Last edited by salim : 04-24-2009 at 01:36 PM.
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Old 04-29-2009, 10:13 PM   #59
wideawakedreamer
 
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Re: YouTube: Aikido v MMA

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Philippe Willaume wrote: View Post
ouch,
Are you the naural son of Elizabeth Bathory and the divine marquis by any chance?

phil
Who are they? I don't know them, but I do know I'm divine. Not to mention modest, humble, and damn proud of it.

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Old 04-29-2009, 10:30 PM   #60
wideawakedreamer
 
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Re: YouTube: Aikido v MMA

The nikkajo in the first video is very similar to how we practice nikkyo in our dojo. We also use atemi this way. I have yet to test it in a live sparring situation though.

Quote:
Salim Shaw wrote: View Post
Again, it's the poor training that exist in many Aikido dojos and or some unrealistic techniques that are in question against a resisting opponent. Bas Rutten basically indicated that it would be pretty difficult to catch, boxing like punches to execute a wrist lock or arm lock. Once you are in some kind of a clinch with the opponent then then you have a greater chance to execute a wrist lock or arm lock. The below videos explain a little of what I mean. The techniques in the below videos would have to be practice in LIVE sparring situations to really become accustom to executing against resistance. Again it's the training methods that's really being question.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPe8-...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7GfQdB9a8Y

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