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Old 04-20-2009, 01:54 PM   #26
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: YouTube: Aikido v MMA

Why do you really need to tenkan in a one on one fight?

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Old 04-20-2009, 03:15 PM   #27
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Re: YouTube: Aikido v MMA

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
Why do you really need to tenkan in a one on one fight?
To pull off the world's greatest irimi nage?
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Old 04-20-2009, 06:00 PM   #28
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Re: YouTube: Aikido v MMA

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
Why do you really need to tenkan in a one on one fight?
Kevin,

Unrealistic ideas or methods of training give people the impression that you have to do, such and such move to look like it's Aikdio. That's part of the point I was trying to make earlier. If it works then use it. But why use a method for the sake of looking like Aikido if it's unnecessary for a particular situation.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:40 AM   #29
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: YouTube: Aikido v MMA

agreed Salim!

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Old 04-21-2009, 06:24 AM   #30
Michael Varin
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Re: YouTube: Aikido v MMA

Let's see. Where do I begin?

This, I feel, is an extremely important discussion for aikidoists to have, and one I have commented on in the past. There are two overlapping issues that really should be isolated to avoid confusion.

One is the issue of training methods. The other is the function of techniques.

For the most part, aikido has poor training methods, or at least incomplete training methods. This is of no concern if you are using aikido as a vehicle to experience harmonious interactions and as a spiritual practice, in fact, I would say that "traditional" aikido is well suited to that end. However, if you are interested in developing martial skills, then you must add another aspect to your training. Specifically, you must train against resistance. You cannot claim to have any significant amount of skill in applying your art if you only train with cooperative partners. As far as training methods go, there is much we can learn from MMA.

That is only one half of the equation. At least as important is understanding the context within which the techniques that we recognize as being "aikido" were designed to function. One-on-one empty-hand fighting seldom presents the opportunity or the need, in many cases, to use aikido's techniques. The reason for this is that they were designed to work with the use of weapons. Reason, experience, and historical evidence all bear this out. If you don't come to this understanding you will simply be trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Conversely, the much heralded MMA techniques will literally get you killed if that is how you intend to fight an armed opponent. Further, this is not the set of techniques someone who is primarily interested in utilizing a weapon wants to know.

Having said all that, I do commend the one-armed man. He isn't letting his handicap slow him down.

On a side note, this thread reminded me of how much I like Bas Rutten and how much I dislike Jason Delucia.

-Michael
"Through aiki we can feel the mind of the enemy who comes to attack and are thus able to respond immediately." - M. Mochizuki
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Old 04-21-2009, 07:21 AM   #31
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Re: YouTube: Aikido v MMA

Michael,

I agree with you. That's the part that can be bothersome, “harmonious interactions and as a spiritual practice.” WOW, nothing to do with self defense. Unfortunately a lot of Aikidoka will alienate you, if you don't buy into the whole Oomto religious, spiritual stuff. Will all due respect to those who do, I think it's equally important to recognize that a lot of people who love Aikido and practice Aikido, are simply not interested in spiritual aspects Aikido. Training (self defense), having fun while doing so, and building good friendships is more appealing to me.
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Old 04-21-2009, 10:37 AM   #32
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Re: YouTube: Aikido v MMA

Quote:
Ricky Wood wrote: View Post
To pull off the world's greatest irimi nage?
Argh damned your eyes
You revealed the best hidden aiki secret of all time. no one would have guessed that irimi is in fact a cunningly disguised tenkan

As a punishment, I think you should be forced to listen to c Aguilera and B Spear greatest hit in loop for half a day. That without the possibility of parole and if you appeal the greatest hit of Girl Aloud throw in the mix for good measure.

phil

Last edited by philippe willaume : 04-21-2009 at 10:49 AM.

One Ringeck to bring them all and in darkness bind them,
In the Land of Windsor where phlip phlop live.
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Old 04-21-2009, 08:52 PM   #33
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Re: YouTube: Aikido v MMA

Dude, you're too soft on him. Let him listen to the Spice Girls. "If you wanna be my lover/ you gotta get with my friends..."

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Old 04-22-2009, 04:28 AM   #34
philippe willaume
 
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Re: YouTube: Aikido v MMA

Quote:
Rafael Ayala wrote: View Post
Dude, you're too soft on him. Let him listen to the Spice Girls. "If you wanna be my lover/ you gotta get with my friends..."
ouch,
Are you the naural son of Elizabeth Bathory and the divine marquis by any chance?

phil

One Ringeck to bring them all and in darkness bind them,
In the Land of Windsor where phlip phlop live.
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Old 04-22-2009, 05:17 AM   #35
Ketsan
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Re: YouTube: Aikido v MMA

Quote:
Philippe Willaume wrote: View Post
Argh damned your eyes
You revealed the best hidden aiki secret of all time. no one would have guessed that irimi is in fact a cunningly disguised tenkan

As a punishment, I think you should be forced to listen to c Aguilera and B Spear greatest hit in loop for half a day. That without the possibility of parole and if you appeal the greatest hit of Girl Aloud throw in the mix for good measure.

phil
I quite like Girls Aloud actually..............
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Old 04-22-2009, 05:53 AM   #36
philippe willaume
 
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Re: YouTube: Aikido v MMA

Quote:
Alex Lawrence wrote: View Post
I quite like Girls Aloud actually..............
well we all have our cross to bear.
For exemple I live in england..
phil

ps dare I ask if like them equally with or without the mute on?

One Ringeck to bring them all and in darkness bind them,
In the Land of Windsor where phlip phlop live.
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Old 04-22-2009, 08:28 AM   #37
Ketsan
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Re: YouTube: Aikido v MMA

Quote:
Salim Shaw wrote: View Post
Bas Rutten (Professional MMA guy) has this to say.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k_uu...eature=related

I don't agree with him completely, because he may have forgotten about using atemi to setup a pin. Interesting to hear what he has to say. Sounds like he at least has some respect for Aikido (MMA guy that is).
Much as I like the guy he doesn't actually know anything about Aikido IMO of course. He's one of the 99% of people who seem to equate Aikido with Aikido kata, which is the ultimate barrier to understanding Aikido as a martial art IMO.
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Old 04-22-2009, 08:30 AM   #38
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Re: YouTube: Aikido v MMA

Quote:
Alex Lawrence wrote: View Post
Much as I like the guy he doesn't actually know anything about Aikido IMO of course. He's one of the 99% of people who seem to equate Aikido with Aikido kata, which is the ultimate barrier to understanding Aikido as a martial art IMO.
Yes, there is a distinct difference. I'm not sure about your 99% statistic though.
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Old 04-22-2009, 08:39 AM   #39
Ketsan
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Re: YouTube: Aikido v MMA

Quote:
Philippe Willaume wrote: View Post
well we all have our cross to bear.
For exemple I live in england..
phil

ps dare I ask if like them equally with or without the mute on?
You're not french are you?

Wait? They sing?

Lady Gaga is better though.

Last edited by Ketsan : 04-22-2009 at 08:42 AM.
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Old 04-22-2009, 08:40 AM   #40
Ketsan
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Re: YouTube: Aikido v MMA

Quote:
Ricky Wood wrote: View Post
Yes, there is a distinct difference. I'm not sure about your 99% statistic though.
Ok, the overwhelming majority of people both within and without Aikido, in my experience.

Last edited by Ketsan : 04-22-2009 at 08:43 AM.
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Old 04-22-2009, 10:06 AM   #41
salim
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Re: YouTube: Aikido v MMA

Quote:
Alex Lawrence wrote: View Post
Much as I like the guy he doesn't actually know anything about Aikido IMO of course. He's one of the 99% of people who seem to equate Aikido with Aikido kata, which is the ultimate barrier to understanding Aikido as a martial art IMO.
I think more than anything he is questioning the training methods of Aikido. Choreographed patterns of movements that are practiced extensively are the standard training method in Aikido. Freestyle and or LIVE training are not generally encouraged. Often frowned upon by some. There are some Aikido dojos that due encourage LIVE training or freestyle, but not nearly the standard among many dojos. The one handed Aikidoka in the video is training using LIVE/Freestyle type training. That method of practice is not standard in Aikido. Arts such as Brazilian Jujutsu are almost 90 percent LIVE training. The Kata system is not used much in BJJ and definitely looked at as an unproven method. That's what Bas Rutten was trying to point out. He indicated that some Aikido pins can work at a close distance, wrist locks that is.

Last edited by salim : 04-22-2009 at 10:17 AM.
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Old 04-22-2009, 11:17 AM   #42
philippe willaume
 
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Re: YouTube: Aikido v MMA

Quote:
Alex Lawrence wrote: View Post
You're not french are you?
well on top of being good looking, incredibly bright, spiritual, carring and yet solid as rock, and on top of that incredibly modest. I have indeed the incredible good fortune of being French.
So after consideration, I suspect it is fair for the rest of you, that I ended up in the UK.

phil

Last edited by akiy : 04-22-2009 at 07:58 PM. Reason: Fixed quoting

One Ringeck to bring them all and in darkness bind them,
In the Land of Windsor where phlip phlop live.
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Old 04-22-2009, 11:28 AM   #43
CitoMaramba
 
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Re: YouTube: Aikido v MMA

Quote:
Well, uh, can we come up and have a look?

OF COURSE not! You are english Type!

Well what are you then!?

I'm french! Why do you think i have this outragious accent you silly king!

What are you doing in England?

Mind your own buisness!

If you are will not show us the grail, we shall have to take your castle by force!

You dont frighten us you English pig dogs!
Go and boil your bottoms! Son of a silly person!
I'll blow my nose at you, so called Arthur king! You and all your silly English cunnnnnnnnnigits!

TTHPPBPBB!!(making fart nosies with tongue)

What a strange person.....

Now look here my good man..

I dont wanna talk to you no more you empty headed animal foot trough water! I'll fart in your general direction! Your mother was a hamster and you father smelt of eldiberry!!!!

Is there someone else up there we can talk to?

NO! Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
Look at it this way, someone would've brought it up sooner or later..

Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui
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Old 04-22-2009, 11:37 AM   #44
Ron Tisdale
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Re: YouTube: Aikido v MMA

Spam spam spam spam spam....


B,
R

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Old 04-22-2009, 12:02 PM   #45
Michael Douglas
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Re: YouTube: Aikido v MMA

Girls Aloud are excellent ... most of the time, especially in fishnets.
Quote:
Alex Lawrence wrote: View Post
I quite like Girls Aloud actually..............
And they DON'T SPEAK FRENCH either!
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Old 04-22-2009, 12:09 PM   #46
philippe willaume
 
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Re: YouTube: Aikido v MMA

Quote:
Salim Shaw wrote: View Post
I think more than anything he is questioning the training methods of Aikido. Choreographed patterns of movements that are practiced extensively are the standard training method in Aikido. Freestyle and or LIVE training are not generally encouraged. Often frowned upon by some. There are some Aikido dojos that due encourage LIVE training or freestyle, but not nearly the standard among many dojos. The one handed Aikidoka in the video is training using LIVE/Freestyle type training. That method of practice is not standard in Aikido. Arts such as Brazilian Jujutsu are almost 90 percent LIVE training. The Kata system is not used much in BJJ and definitely looked at as an unproven method. That's what Bas Rutten was trying to point out. He indicated that some Aikido pins can work at a close distance, wrist locks that is.
Hello
I am not sure that both of you are saying something that different.
Good old Bas probably does not have an intricate knowledge of aikido but to be fair you do not need any to see that on most of the aiki (do or jujutsu, for that matter)video attacks are delivered out of range and in a sloppy manner.
Or that trying to tenkan against a guy striking properly is pure fantasy.

That being said kata are useful as training aid and can be turned in controlled/form sparing quite easily.
I think there is some precaution to take when sparing with akido because thing can go horribly wrong in case of an unforeseen event (i.e. tripping on hakama when someone tries to resist a technique properly applied )
It is much harder for to go horribly wrong in BJJ. So you probably need a more controlled environment The way I understand it is that he believe that aikido as he know it, globally does not work, save some technique at close range.

But I think more realistic kokuy and live paired practice and starting at different stage of the technique will compensate for that

One Ringeck to bring them all and in darkness bind them,
In the Land of Windsor where phlip phlop live.
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Old 04-22-2009, 12:39 PM   #47
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Re: YouTube: Aikido v MMA

Philippe,

I agree.

second note.......

The highly probably cause of incident from the HAKAMA.
(i.e. tripping on hakama when someone tries to resist a technique properly applied ) Although the one handed guy did very well with the hakama on during his live sparring. I have to say, possibly the best reason as to why my sensei does not stress the wearing of the HAKAMA. We tend to do LIVE training often. The HAKAMA can be a disaster waiting to happen with LIVE training.
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Old 04-22-2009, 07:43 PM   #48
Ketsan
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Re: YouTube: Aikido v MMA

Quote:
Philippe Willaume wrote: View Post
well on top of being good looking, incredibly bright, spiritual, carring and yet solid as rock, and on top of that incredibly modest. I have indeed the incredible good fortune of being French.
So after consideration, I suspect it is fair for the rest of you, that I ended up in the UK.

phil
Yeah. I knew it. You come here, you criticise our girl bands...................*grumble*

Last edited by akiy : 04-22-2009 at 07:59 PM. Reason: Fixed quoting.
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Old 04-22-2009, 07:45 PM   #49
Ketsan
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Re: YouTube: Aikido v MMA

Quote:
Salim Shaw wrote: View Post
Philippe,

I agree.

second note.......

The highly probably cause of incident from the HAKAMA.
(i.e. tripping on hakama when someone tries to resist a technique properly applied ) Although the one handed guy did very well with the hakama on during his live sparring. I have to say, possibly the best reason as to why my sensei does not stress the wearing of the HAKAMA. We tend to do LIVE training often. The HAKAMA can be a disaster waiting to happen with LIVE training.
I always thought that the samurai would tuck up their hakama before a scrap to avoid just this. It's always baffled me why Aikidoka don't do it. Logically we should spend most of our time with our hakama hitched up out of the way.
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Old 04-22-2009, 07:47 PM   #50
Ketsan
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Re: YouTube: Aikido v MMA

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote: View Post
Spam spam spam spam spam....


B,
R
egg, spam and spam
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