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Old 03-18-2009, 07:47 AM   #51
Daniel Blanco
Dojo: Suffolk Aikikai
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Thumbs up Re: Has Aikido ever helped you in a real fight?

Yes as a law enforcement officer,first let me express my opnion that aikido is a Martial Art and also a Martial Controlling art, EX: I had a perp who tried to attack me , he threw a round house punch I went under his arm, into a Nikkyo (omote) arm bar, I had complete control of this thug/perp and he became very cooperative with me, i walked away with no injuries, and this is why I study Aikido. To all never doubt the martial art(aikido) that u study, focus on what you need to get out of it and your art will never fail you in combat. The way you train will prove sucess. Hopes this helps all, and respect goes to all Martial Arts (I am always a student and willing to learn.)
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Old 03-18-2009, 07:52 AM   #52
Daniel Blanco
Dojo: Suffolk Aikikai
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Thumbs up Re: Has Aikido ever helped you in a real fight?

Yes as a law enforcement officer,first let me express my opnion that aikido is a Martial Art and also a Martial Controlling art, EX: I had a perp who tried to attack me , he threw a round house punch I went under his arm, into a Nikkyo (omote) arm bar, I had complete control of this thug/perp and he became very cooperative with me, i walked away with no injuries, and this is why I study Aikido. To all never doubt the martial art(aikido) that u study, focus on what you need to get out of it and your art will never fail you in combat. The way you train will prove sucess. Hopes this helps all, and respect goes to all Martial Arts (I am always a student and willing to learn.)
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Old 03-18-2009, 08:44 AM   #53
Cyrijl
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Re: Has Aikido ever helped you in a real fight?

Quote:
Alex Lawrence wrote: View Post
I find that line of argument kinda amusing. In Aikido I've been dropped on my head, had joints damaged, been hit with wooden weapons, punched, kicked, elbowed, had my nose broken. Cracked and broken ribs are par for the course where I train, broken fingers are fairly common. People have fallen on me.
I'm sitting here with a ligament injury that'll put me out of training for the next three weeks, it's an accepted fact where I train that you'll get hit and that you will pick up injuries.

MMA guys aren't the only one's that are used to being hit. The only real difference is that if an MMA guy get's hit then he shrugs it off because he's always getting hit and it means nothing.
To an Aikidoka, getting hit means you just got stabbed and you are now dead.
That doesn't seem to be the norm for two of the aikido dojo here in boston.

melior est canis vivus leone mortuo
Bog svsami!!!
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Old 03-18-2009, 01:53 PM   #54
John Longford
Dojo: Cambridge Aikido, Cambridge UK
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Re: Has Aikido ever helped you in a real fight?

All situations are different. Aikido can be effective but if you train and then expect to be invincible you are in for a shock.
I have friend who has had to use his Aikido as a policeman in Glasgow and another who has used it to great effect on several occasions running a centre in the same town.
A guy once attacked a friend of mine in our local. I pushed my friend out of the way, at which point the guy swung at me. to this day I cannot believe what I did. I caught both his wrists, crossed them in front of him and pulled him down, effectively immobilising him. I would never teach such a ridiculous technique but it worked on that ocassion.
Personally though Aikido has over the years subdued my ego and allowed me to avoid conflict in the first place.
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Old 03-18-2009, 04:12 PM   #55
Minh Nguyen
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Re: Has Aikido ever helped you in a real fight?

Quote:
John Longford wrote: View Post
All situations are different. Aikido can be effective but if you train and then expect to be invincible you are in for a shock.
I have friend who has had to use his Aikido as a policeman in Glasgow and another who has used it to great effect on several occasions running a centre in the same town.
A guy once attacked a friend of mine in our local. I pushed my friend out of the way, at which point the guy swung at me. to this day I cannot believe what I did. I caught both his wrists, crossed them in front of him and pulled him down, effectively immobilising him. I would never teach such a ridiculous technique but it worked on that ocassion.
Personally though Aikido has over the years subdued my ego and allowed me to avoid conflict in the first place.
From what you say, it seems like Jujitsu leverage technique. I am an Aikido beginner. My sensei usually teaches how to project an attack using either linear or circular motion. In either case, I shouldn't feel like I'm using significant muscular force.
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Old 03-18-2009, 06:00 PM   #56
gdandscompserv
 
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Re: Has Aikido ever helped you in a real fight?

Quote:
Alex Lawrence wrote: View Post
I find that line of argument kinda amusing. In Aikido I've been dropped on my head, had joints damaged, been hit with wooden weapons, punched, kicked, elbowed, had my nose broken. Cracked and broken ribs are par for the course where I train, broken fingers are fairly common. People have fallen on me.
I'm sitting here with a ligament injury that'll put me out of training for the next three weeks, it's an accepted fact where I train that you'll get hit and that you will pick up injuries.
Sensei NEVER injured us. I, likewise, pride myself on NOT injuring my students. Who will you train with then?
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Old 03-18-2009, 07:10 PM   #57
Russell Davis
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Re: Has Aikido ever helped you in a real fight?

Some very interesting comments to your question, directly the answer is yes, but so has Muay Thai, Kali, Judo
WHY do you want to learn Aikido? if its for self defence you are on the wrong track, as it will take some time before you are competent enough to use what you have learned. in the shorter term I would suggest Boxing, Muay Thai or Kali.
You could also consider the option of running like hell.
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Old 03-18-2009, 07:53 PM   #58
wideawakedreamer
 
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Re: Has Aikido ever helped you in a real fight?

Ah yes, nothing like good ol' Run-do.

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Old 03-18-2009, 08:32 PM   #59
David Orange
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Re: Has Aikido ever helped you in a real fight?

Quote:
Minh Nguyen wrote: View Post
If we have no choice but to defense ourselves, do you think that using linear instead of spiral motion is better to immobilize the attacker?

When I practice Aikido, I figure that pivoting on the mat is not easy but still doable. However, on the street, using leverage technique seems easier and more effective. I have never been attacked on the street, but if linear projection is easier for me on the mat, I assume it would be the same on the street.
You have to go with what comes most powerfully and don't second-guess yourself. In my case, I used pivoting three of the four times. The last time, as I was walking through the parking lot, the guy passed near me (which should have been a signal, since we were the only people in the parking lot) and he suddenly turned and probably would have jumped me, but I turned toward him (involuntarily) as he turned toward me and I would have yanked him off his feet and tossed him in the direction he was moving (by continuing my turn) if he hadn't broken it off and split.

I think, of the two, the circular movement is better for you and if you find it difficult on the mat, you should practice it 10000 times more and think about it.

Best to you.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

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Old 03-18-2009, 08:34 PM   #60
David Orange
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Re: Has Aikido ever helped you in a real fight?

Quote:
Grant Wagar wrote: View Post
I think the diference between a real fight and a stage fight, regardless of two people 'going at it' is pretty huge my friend.
A friend was recently telling me what his dad told him--that in a real fight, people actually get lips and ears ripped off and suffer other horrendous injuries, meaning, to me, that you'd better get your best response in right away and make it count befor you end up counting your lips and ears!

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
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Old 03-18-2009, 09:22 PM   #61
Ketsan
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Re: Has Aikido ever helped you in a real fight?

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Sensei NEVER injured us. I, likewise, pride myself on NOT injuring my students. Who will you train with then?
Oh Sensei's never injured anyone, I think he'd be mortified if he did.
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Old 03-18-2009, 10:11 PM   #62
Ketsan
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Re: Has Aikido ever helped you in a real fight?

Quote:
Joseph Connolly wrote: View Post
That doesn't seem to be the norm for two of the aikido dojo here in boston.
It's not the norm for dojo here either, I know of two dojo, including the one I train in, that train this way. I think our mind set is quite different from most Aikidoka.
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Old 03-19-2009, 03:11 AM   #63
Tim Gerrard
 
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Re: Has Aikido ever helped you in a real fight?

Quote:
Alex Lawrence wrote: View Post
It's not the norm for dojo here either, I know of two dojo, including the one I train in, that train this way. I think our mind set is quite different from most Aikidoka.
Most; but not all.

To make the most of your training you must train as realistically as possible. Continuing even though you've been hit (or stabbed) means that you'll fight how you train. Training hard hurts, and you will pick up injuries along the way, a small price to pay when it does happen.

Those of us that have been in a real fight - not some made up bar fight - you'll know that it hurts (alot), you've got to fight to not be blinded by adrenaline and tunnel vision, and that things happen only when you've trained enough for them to become reflex - or at least with minimal thought.

Also IMHO we need to separate the Martial Art and the Self Defence aspect. You learn a Martial Art and then apply it to real life; in my experience (as a copper) this has been a very effective approach - as the scenario based training you get in the majority of self defence classes is flawed, as you memorise, almost kata like, the response to a predetermined attack (downward knife into an ippon sio-nage was always my favourite ). When the scenario differs (as 90% of the time it does, people panic, and then suffer for it). Applying a martial art allows someone to approach each situation with a blank canvas, and take it as it comes.

And to answer the original question; yes Aikido has helped numerous times whilst on duty (strange, never gotten into a fight when I haven't been at work, change your lifestyle or choice of drinking establishment) - Aikido works; end of.

Last edited by Tim Gerrard : 03-19-2009 at 03:15 AM. Reason: mong spelling

Aikido doesn't work? My Aikido works, what on earth are you practicing?!
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Old 03-19-2009, 08:52 AM   #64
jxa127
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Re: Has Aikido ever helped you in a real fight?

Quote:
Alex Lawrence wrote: View Post
O' Sensei never injured anyone, I think he'd be mortified if he did.
Alex,

There's a pretty famous story of O'Sensei giving a demonstration to the emperor of Japan, during which, he broke the arm of his uke. Additionally, the early dojo that O'Sensei set up was called the "Hell Dojo"! O'Sensei was known for his powerful technique and I'm sure he caused quite a few injuries in his time -- Lord knows that I have (though not on purpose).

Regards,

-Drew

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Old 03-19-2009, 10:16 AM   #65
Tim Gerrard
 
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Re: Has Aikido ever helped you in a real fight?

Quote:
Drew Ames wrote: View Post
Alex,

There's a pretty famous story of O'Sensei giving a demonstration to the emperor of Japan, during which, he broke the arm of his uke. Additionally, the early dojo that O'Sensei set up was called the "Hell Dojo"! O'Sensei was known for his powerful technique and I'm sure he caused quite a few injuries in his time -- Lord knows that I have (though not on purpose).

Regards,

-Drew
Most of O'Sensei's formative years were spent scrapping; read Angry White Pyjamas and other accounts. He was pretty merciless when it came down to it. He mellowed somewhat after the war - as did his Aikido.

Aikido doesn't work? My Aikido works, what on earth are you practicing?!
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Old 03-19-2009, 10:59 AM   #66
philippe willaume
 
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Re: Has Aikido ever helped you in a real fight?

Quote:
Jerry Silverman wrote: View Post
Got me on the signup date. I've been lurking for a good long while though.

Although it may seem that way, Im not trying to troll or stir you up. I simply do not think aikido (on its own especially) should be seen as a legitimate system of self-defense. Those of you who do see it that way are, in my opinion, delusional at best, and a danger to themselves (not so much others, thankfully) at worst.

I studied aikido for more than 6 years and took it VERY seriously till I was actually in "real fights", one of which started directly from me verbally defending the effectiveness of aikido to some meathead. (he even grabbed my wrist before pummeling me just to prove his point)

The best reason to study aikido, in my opinion, is because its a spiritually fulfilling endeavor. Thats why I still visit the dojo from time to time. As far as self-defense goes, I've long since given it up for Sambo / MT.
Hello

Before we go any further yes I do agree
That there is some aikido out of there where practitioners would have problem fending off my grand mother
That really you do need to have strikes and throw-down/pins in you repertoire and some sort of ground (even if it is only how not to get there or recover as fast as you can)
That you need resistance training and sparring of some description
That you need a minimum of conditioning physical and to pain

Self defence wise, there is as much gaps in 1v1 as there is in aikido. They are just not the same. As well ground and pound is one the best way to dent your defence in court and make sure GBH rears its ugly head

We could go on how in some aikido school you move as you strike to occupy the space, isolate the arm and get out of the way of kicks or strike from the other hand.
Or how you would have needed to be more active with the hand he grabbed and so started the technique earlier (ie before he grabbed) but it is kind of saying what you would have done with MT/sambo combo.

I believe that the answer may very well be not a lot more. You were not in a 1v1 situation, you go “ambushed”. He got into a favourable position by verbally deceiving you. It is very probable as well that your aikido experience favoured that deception as well as keeping you level of commitment much lower than his. Regardless he was there to prove point and it is very likely that he stacked up the advantages on his side.

For example having a square shoulder posture, grabbing aihennmi, if possible with his lead foot on the same line of you lead foot
The grab would with the arm at 45 or closer to his body.
Basically he probably set up at a distance within which you could touch his body if you had your arm straight.
Capitalising on the fact that you were not very likely to strike, just by the set up he had your outside totally open from a distance where it is fiendishly difficult to stop a strike. Beside he was grabbing the only hand that was in a position where it could have been useful against the initial punch.

That being said if was aikido minded, he could have chose to strike your elbow, and he would have had gokio, rokkio or ikkio if it was from above or from bellow the shiho nague that looks like ippon sheonague and you would have been able to mount as much as a defence as if he had punched you in the face.

phil

Last edited by philippe willaume : 03-19-2009 at 11:03 AM.

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In the Land of Windsor where phlip phlop live.
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Old 03-19-2009, 11:09 AM   #67
Guilty Spark
 
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Re: Has Aikido ever helped you in a real fight?

I too wondered about the comment of O'Sensei never injuring anyone.

If you train hard injuries are bound to happen. Injuries should be avoided for obvious reasons.
It impacts someones personal life. An injury can impede on someones ability to take care of their family and also effect their job.
Injury a student and they may be out of class weeks months or in the case of my school a year (or for good).

That said I don't think a school that has injuries is a hallmark of bad training. If there is a history of poor saftey or discipline that's one thing but good hard training means at times people will get injured. That's true of all sports and martial arts I think, no?

If you're hungry, keep moving.
If you're tired, keep moving.
If you value you're life, keep moving.

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Old 03-19-2009, 11:46 AM   #68
John Longford
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Re: Has Aikido ever helped you in a real fight?

If you lack confidence and a situation is building up from a verbal attack the chances are you will freeze and you wll think too much. If, however, an attack just happens there is a very good chance that your Aikido training will kick in. The technique will not resemble any specific move e.g. Ikkyo or Kotegaeshi but will be a combination of all that you have learnt.
Yes, Aikido can be used for self defence but as Russell Davis has already pointed out, there are easier ways to learn if self defence is your only goal.
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Old 03-19-2009, 11:54 AM   #69
Ketsan
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Re: Has Aikido ever helped you in a real fight?

Quote:
Drew Ames wrote: View Post
Alex,

There's a pretty famous story of O'Sensei giving a demonstration to the emperor of Japan, during which, he broke the arm of his uke. Additionally, the early dojo that O'Sensei set up was called the "Hell Dojo"! O'Sensei was known for his powerful technique and I'm sure he caused quite a few injuries in his time -- Lord knows that I have (though not on purpose).

Regards,

-Drew
I never said O-Sensei. I said Oh Sensei. As in "Oh my sensei has never injured anyone."
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Old 03-19-2009, 12:47 PM   #70
jxa127
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Re: Has Aikido ever helped you in a real fight?

Quote:
Alex Lawrence wrote: View Post
I never said O-Sensei. I said Oh Sensei. As in "Oh my sensei has never injured anyone."
Ah. My fault. Sorry about that.

-Drew

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Old 03-22-2009, 12:20 PM   #71
Daniel Ranger-Holt
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Re: Has Aikido ever helped you in a real fight?

Quote:
Jerry Silverman wrote: View Post
Got me on the signup date. I've been lurking for a good long while though.

Although it may seem that way, Im not trying to troll or stir you up. I simply do not think aikido (on its own especially) should be seen as a legitimate system of self-defense. Those of you who do see it that way are, in my opinion, delusional at best, and a danger to themselves (not so much others, thankfully) at worst.

I studied aikido for more than 6 years and took it VERY seriously till I was actually in "real fights", one of which started directly from me verbally defending the effectiveness of aikido to some meathead. (he even grabbed my wrist before pummeling me just to prove his point)

The best reason to study aikido, in my opinion, is because its a spiritually fulfilling endeavor. Thats why I still visit the dojo from time to time. As far as self-defense goes, I've long since given it up for Sambo / MT.
Agreed, wow, fascinating, this debate is still going on within the Aikido circles. it was a long time ago well a year and a bit or something lol that i announced me leaving aikido, i havent actually checked that old thread of mine since 09-01-2008. And i wont go back into it and dig it up. But my reasons for leaving were because i personally knew Aikido as i knew it, didn't work in a fight.

All this skirting around what a fight is....best option is to walk away etc, its really awkward to read and sad. Most people here know what people are asking when they say 'would it work in a fight', but avoid answering it direct because they know it would not.

Ive done the doors now for what must be a year and a half straight, and if i can avoid fights i do, i'd rather go home in one piece, talking your way out and humbling yourself is an art also and it often works but unfortunately bouncers were targets for people who felt they had to prove themselves, particularly me, being a guy who on sight could intimidate people even though im soft as hell.

Back then my two or so years of Aikido simply didnt kick in, the snap of someone throwing a punch at you is very different to Aikidos training, the fast unpredictability of a confrontation, adrenalin pumping etc. Aikido doesnt work in those situations, most here know this, but with Aikido theres a very almost religious like bond to the art.

I've now done Krav Maga for a year and a half, and because of what it is, a very effective fast brutal, ugly hybrid of striing kicking and ground, weapon defence for self defence only, we are all very open with it. Some techniques we dont like, some we do, we experiment. But we spar, we come at full speed etc, krav isnt special its just my chosen, but the point is, if someone said to me Krav doesnt work in a fight, it wouldnt feel like my religion was offended, as it does to some Aikido peeps. Because it would be like saying boxing doesnt work in a fight...of course it does.

Aikido on the other hand?? people are still unsure...

I know my chosen art Krav works, and the results are hard but if someones coming for you with agression, they should be hard IMO. This goes against Aikido in general. Perhaps why i never enjoyed the theory side of it. No pain to the attacker etc. I must have done aikido for about two years, i only wish it was something else now, i could have been three years deep into Krav and would have NO QUESTION as to if it could work in a fight lol. Same as a Boxer doesnt, Kickboxer doesnt, Kung fu etc. Its only AIkido that has this internal struggle of "are we any good on the street"

If somone grabs you before hand, your wrist, or shirt etc then Aikido will work. If the situations are created in the dojo fine it will work if you're decent at it. But what if your taken to the ground, what if you come up against someone whos throwing quick jabs, not telegraphed floating punches..its endless, ive seen scraps from all angles and well i just know on my life, that unless its a convienient recreation of the dojo setting and situation Aikido is unlikely to be effective.

I wish i knew this when i wasted near two years doing it. But...it was a stepping stone into what i do now, and for that i will always be eternally grateful to it. And my old sensei who was a dear friend and her son.

It feels like im attacking personally, i know, i was very defensive of aikido, as i was with my old religion, when i was a certain religion i wouldnt hear nothing else, NOTHING stubborn, but once i was honest with myself, i knew i'd been living in part a lie to myself.

I just dont feel its fair for people who want to learn Self Defence to waste years of their lives training in Aikido, only to find out its not actually an effective self defence at all. More a close knit spiritual club. Which is fine, and theres a ton of worse things people could be doing. But its for the dojo and the mat only, in my expierience.

Aikido mixed with something else? Now thats different, ive recenly started Wing Chun, which is great, but i know without Krav it lacks, because Krav has ground work which wing chun i belive doesn't but the concentrated striking is appealing so im into that now too.

All im saying is, five years on, if i was still doin aikido, i would still be unsure as to if it could "work in a real fight" but five years down the line Krav? Or Krav and Wingchun as im now doing? well...

Aikido is a fascinating look into how the body works, and a soft passive protection art but no way effective if someone wants to actually fight you. Ive heard many people say "its good for stopping a drunk uncle who goes to far etc" thats fine, and some people dont want it to be more than that, but to those who do, i personally would say...anything but Aikido (on its own)

NO offence meant people, just passionate about people being duped into beliving aikido is something, that is really isnt. Effective real self defence. Thanks.
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Old 03-22-2009, 01:39 PM   #72
Raptr20
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Re: Has Aikido ever helped you in a real fight?

Daniel Ranger-Holt I value your comments. I can say in my own personal aikido training that aikido has worked for me in real life fights-3 times. But to me it felt like I failed.

I would say to other people who love the art (Aikido) as much as I do to get out and go experience different styles of aikido (after you have a good base in kenowaza). It is amazing how different sensei's and organizations emipsize different details. This has helped me grow and develop and open my eyes to many different situations.

Daniel I hope you find what you’re looking for in your new styles. Be safe and have fun.
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Old 03-22-2009, 02:10 PM   #73
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Re: Has Aikido ever helped you in a real fight?

Quote:
Robert Brody wrote: View Post
I can say in my own personal aikido training that aikido has worked for me in real life fights-3 times. But to me it felt like I failed.
Can you explain that?

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Old 03-22-2009, 03:08 PM   #74
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Re: Has Aikido ever helped you in a real fight?

Quote:
Daniel Ranger-Holt wrote: View Post
Agreed, wow, fascinating, this debate is still going on within the Aikido circles. it was a long time ago well a year and a bit or something lol that i announced me leaving aikido, i havent actually checked that old thread of mine since 09-01-2008. And i wont go back into it and dig it up. But my reasons for leaving were because i personally knew Aikido as i knew it, didn't work in a fight.
Your last sentence explains much...It's impossible to know Aikido works after just a couple years of training...

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All im saying is, five years on, if i was still doin aikido, i would still be unsure as to if it could "work in a real fight" but five years down the line Krav? Or Krav and Wingchun as im now doing? well...
Agreed when you have the mindset Aikido will not work for me you have only two choices practice harder and challenge this mindset or move on to something that you feel gives you the confidence you need...

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Aikido is a fascinating look into how the body works, and a soft passive protection art but no way effective if someone wants to actually fight you. Ive heard many people say "its good for stopping a drunk uncle who goes to far etc" thats fine, and some people dont want it to be more than that, but to those who do, i personally would say...anything but Aikido (on its own)
I think you don't know enough about what you're talking about outside of your personal experiance. Our Aikido is designed with the idea that it must be effective against other Martial Arts or we won't practice it. There are other flavors of Aikido that also "work" very well. And yes...Our beginners techniques feature wrist grabbing. There are many excellent instructors here on the site who can explain why we feature cooperative training. It's just takes some reading.

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NO offence meant people, just passionate about people being duped into beliving aikido is something, that is really isnt. Effective real self defence. Thanks.
Your "passion" is misplaced...and not supported by any actual facts or statistics...

William Hazen
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Old 03-22-2009, 04:14 PM   #75
Minh Nguyen
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 13
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Re: Has Aikido ever helped you in a real fight?

Do you think that if Aikido cuts complicated circular movements, it will be a very effective self-defense method?
I don't learn Aikido long enough to decide which is more effective. For now, however, I realize that doing irimi to blend and neutralize an attack seems easier than turning around and pivoting.
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