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Old 12-15-2008, 01:43 PM   #1
M Butt
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The Secrets of Martial Arts

I was discussing The Art of Peace with my brother and he pointed this phrase out... "...in the martial arts, there are no secrets."

Then later the second phrase to crop up was "..... these are the secrets of the martial arts..."

In my opinion, O Sensei is saying that there are secrets in martial arts but he doesn't believe there should be and so he will divulge them but my brothers opinion was slightly different.

We're just wondering if anyone else has any thoughts or opinions on this that they'd like to express. It'd be interesting to see what others think.
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Old 12-15-2008, 02:11 PM   #2
Joe McParland
 
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Re: The Secrets of Martial Arts

There is nothing that is not discoverable, maybe?

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Old 12-15-2008, 04:00 PM   #3
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Re: The Secrets of Martial Arts

He wrote a lot of things in the art of peace. Reflect on it and let it mean for you what it means for you. It's best not to over analyse. .Just enjoy it for what ,if anything it inspires in you. enough said. IMHO
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Old 12-15-2008, 06:22 PM   #4
Flintstone
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Re: The Secrets of Martial Arts

Hidden in plain sight?
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Old 12-15-2008, 06:25 PM   #5
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: The Secrets of Martial Arts

It has to be felt?

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Old 12-15-2008, 06:26 PM   #6
crbateman
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Re: The Secrets of Martial Arts

Here's the rub: O'Sensei technically did not write "The Art of Peace". It is a compilation by John Stevens Sensei of O'Sensei's musings over a long period of time. They are subject to the interpretations and contexts given them by the compiler and others who might have recounted the quotes, not to mention the language translations. Not only were many of O'Sensei's quotes somewhat cryptic, but many of his views evolved over time, as did many of his techniques. Books like tAoP are meant to be digested by the reader for effect, not to be taken literally.
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Old 12-16-2008, 03:56 AM   #7
Andrew S
 
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Re: The Secrets of Martial Arts

Quote:
Alejandro Villanueva wrote: View Post
Hidden in plain sight?
Or hiden in plain sight?

Warning: Do not bend, fold or otherwise abuse... until we get to the dojo..


合気道研心会 Aikido Kenshinkai
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Old 12-16-2008, 05:49 AM   #8
justin
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Re: The Secrets of Martial Arts

Our sensei often finishes the class with "there are no secrets to aikido all you have to do is turn up and train" which is often a great comfort as you come of the mat thinking you have three left feet
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Old 12-16-2008, 06:03 AM   #9
DonMagee
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Re: The Secrets of Martial Arts

Maybe it was written by the same guy who wrote this.

You should never write programs that make assumptions about the size of your data types. However, you are guaranteed that a minimum amount of storage will be set aside for each basic data type. For example, it's guaranteed that an integer value will be stored in a minimum of 32 bits of storage. However, once again, it's not guaranteed

Sometimes people just have trouble expressing what they want to tell you.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 12-16-2008, 07:29 AM   #10
lbb
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Re: The Secrets of Martial Arts

Quote:
Clark Bateman wrote: View Post
Here's the rub: O'Sensei technically did not write "The Art of Peace". It is a compilation by John Stevens Sensei of O'Sensei's musings over a long period of time. They are subject to the interpretations and contexts given them by the compiler and others who might have recounted the quotes, not to mention the language translations. Not only were many of O'Sensei's quotes somewhat cryptic, but many of his views evolved over time, as did many of his techniques. Books like tAoP are meant to be digested by the reader for effect, not to be taken literally.
Well, I'll say it: the emperor has no clothes. Every time I pick up tAoP, I always think how pointless and uninstructive a collection of context-free sound bites is. Despite the many meanings that people infer into those little nuggets, they really don't say that much -- except, perhaps, to those who have already in their minds the message that they're seeking. I don't get literal meaning from them, I don't get figurative meaning from them, and the only "effect" I get is one of annoyance.
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Old 12-16-2008, 10:11 AM   #11
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Re: The Secrets of Martial Arts

i was watching the movie Kungfu Panda for the *mumble mumble* times with my kids (that's my story and i will stick to it). i was quite interested in the secret ingredient of the Secret Ingredient Soup, since i liked soup too. i was quite disappointed with the answer.
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Old 12-16-2008, 10:50 AM   #12
Lan Powers
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Re: The Secrets of Martial Arts

Wish i had one of those soup-spoons WITHOUT all the little holes in it.....
Lan

Play nice, practice hard, but remember, this is a MARTIAL art!
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Old 12-16-2008, 11:03 AM   #13
Aikibu
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Re: The Secrets of Martial Arts

Please don't tell me! It's no longer a secret if you tell me for gosh sakes!

William Hazen
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Old 12-16-2008, 11:13 AM   #14
Aikibu
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Re: The Secrets of Martial Arts

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Well, I'll say it: the emperor has no clothes. Every time I pick up tAoP, I always think how pointless and uninstructive a collection of context-free sound bites is. Despite the many meanings that people infer into those little nuggets, they really don't say that much -- except, perhaps, to those who have already in their minds the message that they're seeking. I don't get literal meaning from them, I don't get figurative meaning from them, and the only "effect" I get is one of annoyance.
Me too...I feel no need to deify O'Sensei though he did have some interesting things to say.

William Hazen
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Old 12-16-2008, 11:29 AM   #15
phitruong
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Re: The Secrets of Martial Arts

Quote:
Lan Powers wrote: View Post
Wish i had one of those soup-spoons WITHOUT all the little holes in it.....
Lan
only amateurs need soup-spoons. we professional soupers need no spoons. There is no spoon! just like professional aikidoka don't need to stinking secrets! now if you folks can tell me the secret of tying the hakama and keep it stay on i would be much appreciated; otherwise, i will have to loop 'em straps over my shoulders and go with farmer John approach. *mumble mumble seem to have quite a bit of wardrobe malfunction mumble mumble*
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Old 12-16-2008, 11:31 AM   #16
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Re: The Secrets of Martial Arts

Quote:
William Hazen wrote: View Post
Me too...I feel no need to deify O'Sensei though he did have some interesting things to say.
Plus the title of this thread keeps making me imagine O'Sensei saying, "The secrets of martial arts? Well...I can tell you...but then I'll have to kill you."
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Old 12-16-2008, 12:12 PM   #17
crbateman
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Re: The Secrets of Martial Arts

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Well, I'll say it: the emperor has no clothes. Every time I pick up tAoP, I always think how pointless and uninstructive a collection of context-free sound bites is. Despite the many meanings that people infer into those little nuggets, they really don't say that much -- except, perhaps, to those who have already in their minds the message that they're seeking. I don't get literal meaning from them, I don't get figurative meaning from them, and the only "effect" I get is one of annoyance.
One guy's profound wisdom is another guy's gibberish... Some just have more interest (or tolerance, perhaps) for things cryptic, obtuse or puzzling than others. At least it provoked a reaction...
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Old 12-16-2008, 02:13 PM   #18
lbb
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Re: The Secrets of Martial Arts

Quote:
Clark Bateman wrote: View Post
One guy's profound wisdom is another guy's gibberish... Some just have more interest (or tolerance, perhaps) for things cryptic, obtuse or puzzling than others. At least it provoked a reaction...
Oh, it does that. I just question whether you can honestly infer meaning from a few words devoid of context. It's not a matter of interest or tolerance, really.
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Old 12-16-2008, 02:26 PM   #19
C. David Henderson
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Re: The Secrets of Martial Arts

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
There is no spoon!
So Phi, I take it you've also seen the Matrix mumble mumble and perhaps mumble times.

DH
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Old 12-16-2008, 09:07 PM   #20
DonMagee
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Re: The Secrets of Martial Arts

Today at work we had leftovers from our winter party. There was left over icecream, but there was no spoon.

So I told him to just fork it.

Later we thought their might be cake...but it turned out to be a lie.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 12-16-2008, 10:17 PM   #21
mwible
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Re: The Secrets of Martial Arts

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
i was watching the movie Kungfu Panda for the *mumble mumble* times with my kids (that's my story and i will stick to it). i was quite interested in the secret ingredient of the Secret Ingredient Soup, since i liked soup too. i was quite disappointed with the answer.
Haha, i love that movie!

SCADOOSH!

"When you bow deeply to the universe, it bows back; when you call out the name of God, it echoes inside you." - O' sensei
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Old 12-17-2008, 08:40 AM   #22
Nathan Wallace
 
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Re: The Secrets of Martial Arts

the secrets are the basics..?

what are you gonna do? sit on me?
don't tempt me. lol!

Northern Virginia Tenshinkai Aikido
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Old 12-17-2008, 07:42 PM   #23
Joe McParland
 
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Re: The Secrets of Martial Arts

I wonder to what extent we can know O-Sensei's understanding of or intent for his aikido by virtue of understanding his doka?

Consider: Would we assume that O-Sensei put less effort and meaning into his poetry about his art than he did in demonstrating the physical aspects of his art, and would we then dismiss the former as inaccessible while claiming any understanding of the later?

It seems that O-Sensei wanted others to see the universe as he saw it. If so, then that's what's hidden; and, if so, since there is this "aikido" thing he taught and all of this poetry, presumably it's only hidden by our own lack of understanding, not for his lack of effort or any attempt to obscure it.

But that's just speculation

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Old 12-17-2008, 08:16 PM   #24
GeneC
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Re: The Secrets of Martial Arts

On the other hand, a whole bunch of folks are trying to figure out how one Japanese guy perceived his world, when he apparently didn't want it known easily.

Here is a radio interview in his later years. He sounded pretty straight-forward to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-Sugag-Ncs

Only between a single breath is Yin/Yang in harmony
Emotion is pure energy flowing feely thru the body-Dan Millman
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Old 12-18-2008, 01:57 AM   #25
Stefan Stenudd
 
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Re: The Secrets of Martial Arts

I read an anecdote about Nakazono sensei, many years ago. This is how I rememeber it:
Some aikido students asked him about the secret of aikido, and he promised to show them if they came to the dojo later on. They sure did, but he was late, so they started to practice a little. When he showed up, he encouraged them to go on, gave them some instructions, and so on. After a couple of hours he interrupted the training and said that it was time to reveal the secret of aikido:
- You've trained hard and sincerely. That's it.

Stefan Stenudd
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