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Old 12-20-2008, 07:46 AM   #101
C. David Henderson
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Re: Ki, Chi, and "Energy"

Wow,

That's a, what'a ya' call it, "a whole bunch of words" for "I wasn't really listening."

When you do read the books you ordered, there in the privacy of your thoughts, I had hoped some "evolvement" of your point of view might take place. That would have interested me in hearing what you had to say.

Foolish stray thought, I know.

Yep, its just a big ol' pool of engergy sitt'n right there. Spigot anyone? Oh, that's the point.

How do we tap in? I guess we just clinch our ol' fist as hard as we can and reach back and swing from here to the coast.

Or we study from those who know what they're doing.

Nah, what am I thinking.
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Old 12-20-2008, 09:51 AM   #102
Diane Stevenson
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Re: Ki, Chi, and "Energy"

Thank you Eric, for your investment in that post.

You've given me a lot to think about; a great meditation for advent.

...not as evil as I could be
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Old 12-20-2008, 10:25 AM   #103
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Re: Ki, Chi, and "Energy"

Quote:
David Henderson wrote: View Post
Wow,

That's a, what'a ya' call it, "a whole bunch of words" for "I wasn't really listening." When you do read the books you ordered, there in the privacy of your thoughts, I had hoped some "evolvement" of your point of view might take place. That would have interested me in hearing what you had to say.Foolish stray thought, I know.
Yep, its just a big ol' pool of engergy sitt'n right there. Spigot anyone? Oh, that's the point. How do we tap in? I guess we just clinch our ol' fist as hard as we can and reach back and swing from here to the coast. Or we study from those who know what they're doing.Nah, what am I thinking.
Dave, I was listening, but I just don't understand all that " p = Sqrt[(E/c)2 - (mc)2]. This is simply an algebraic conversion of the familiar E=mc^2 into terms of momentum. " I don't know about the "Manual of Acutpuncture", altho I have taken Acupuncture and studied it and practiced Shiatsu, so I understand the basic principles of it. I don't know about "mayofacial therapy" and I don't know about "Quantum gravity". Maybe you do, but that doesn't matter, 'cause you chose to get on here and be sarcastic and instead of contributing to this thread, take away the integrity. Study from those who know what they're doing? You mean folks like you? No thanks, I'll pass.

But anyway...
Channel:1): a path along which information (as data or music) in the form of an electrical signal passes (2)plural : a fixed or official course of communication <went through established military channels with his grievances> e: a way, course, or direction of thought or action <new channels of exploration>

The same idea as a paranormal medium will channel a spirit thru their body, so that it 'speaks' or otherwise communicates thru that medium. More specifically, in martial arts, is Bruce Lee's "1 inch punch" or Osensei's claim that he could throw folks without touching them. Not to mention the superhuman feats of strength they could do.

Only between a single breath is Yin/Yang in harmony
Emotion is pure energy flowing feely thru the body-Dan Millman
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Old 12-20-2008, 08:40 PM   #104
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Ki, Chi, and "Energy"

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Clarence Couch wrote: View Post
The same idea as a paranormal medium will channel a spirit thru their body, so that it 'speaks' or otherwise communicates thru that medium.
Stercore tauri.

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Old 12-22-2008, 09:19 AM   #105
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Re: Ki, Chi, and "Energy"

Quote:
Clarence Couch wrote: View Post
Dave, I was listening, but I just don't understand all that " p = Sqrt[(E/c)2 - (mc)2]. This is simply an algebraic conversion of the familiar E=mc^2 into terms of momentum. " ...
The point being: Hamlet, Act I, Scene v. " And therefore, as a stranger give it welcome ..."

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 12-22-2008, 10:18 AM   #106
C. David Henderson
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Re: Ki, Chi, and "Energy"

Gene,

By the way,

No, I didn't mean me.

The fact that you don't have any idea -- you don't, do you - of who I do mean you should learn from shows the depths of what you don't know. You do realize that, don't you?

I hope you do learn. I realize that nothing I have learned during my time here on Earth is of any value to you. It's okay. I still hope you learn.

I did mean it when I told you goodbye on the other thread though. Peace to you and all your relations. Ta'kashlika.
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Old 12-22-2008, 02:06 PM   #107
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Re: Ki, Chi, and "Energy"

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Gene, I did mean it when I told you goodbye on the other thread though. Peace to you and all your relations. Ta'kashlika.
Well, goodbye then...

Only between a single breath is Yin/Yang in harmony
Emotion is pure energy flowing feely thru the body-Dan Millman
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Old 12-22-2008, 02:27 PM   #108
GeneC
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Re: Ki, Chi, and "Energy"

Quote:
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The point being: Hamlet, Act I, Scene v. " And therefore, as a stranger give it welcome ..."
Once again, you manage to come up with something that makes no sense and applies to nothing on topic.

Hamlet's making his co-horts swear they haven't seen or heard a conversation he had with a ghost. Uh-huh......

"Ay, that incestuous, that adulterate beast,
With witchcraft of his wit, with traitorous gifts..."

Only between a single breath is Yin/Yang in harmony
Emotion is pure energy flowing feely thru the body-Dan Millman
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Old 12-22-2008, 02:56 PM   #109
Erick Mead
 
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Re: Ki, Chi, and "Energy"

Quote:
Clarence Couch wrote: View Post
Once again, you manage to come up with something that makes no sense and applies to nothing on topic.

Hamlet's making his co-horts swear they haven't seen or heard a conversation he had with a ghost. Uh-huh......

"Ay, that incestuous, that adulterate beast,
With witchcraft of his wit, with traitorous gifts..."
Hm. Not nearly THAT obscure:
Quote:
HORATIO:
O day and night, but this is wondrous strange!

HAMLET:
And therefore as a stranger give it welcome.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
But come!

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 12-22-2008, 06:46 PM   #110
Sy Labthavikul
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Re: Ki, Chi, and "Energy"

I think we've gotten way off topic now.


---------------------------------
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Old 12-22-2008, 07:51 PM   #111
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Re: Ki, Chi, and "Energy"

Quote:
Sy Labthavikul wrote: View Post
I think we've gotten way off topic now.
Sorry, you're right, so what 're your thoughts on Ki in relation to energy?

Only between a single breath is Yin/Yang in harmony
Emotion is pure energy flowing feely thru the body-Dan Millman
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Old 12-25-2008, 08:46 PM   #112
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Re: Ki, Chi, and "Energy"

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This book looks interesting, and the author familiar...Life Energy Encyclopedia: Qi, Prana, Spirit, and Other Life Forces around the World (Paperback)
by Stefan Stenudd (Author)
Well the books came in, but it wasn't that one, it was " Attacks of Aikido- How to do the Kogeki" and "Qi: Increase Your Life Energy"

Only between a single breath is Yin/Yang in harmony
Emotion is pure energy flowing feely thru the body-Dan Millman
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Old 12-25-2008, 09:05 PM   #113
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Re: Ki, Chi, and "Energy"

I found this in my research- http://www.toitsu.de/texte/tohei_en.htm

An interview with Koichi Tohei (&son):"I studied Aikido from Morihei Ueshiba.... Ueshiba Sensei was a master of Ki, as well as the founder of Aikido.:..He would tell us that we should become one with the Ki of Heaven...Of course Ki principles can apply to any martial art, even to sports, dancing, or other forms of exercise....Ki is a Japanese word describing the natural energy of the universe." This is what I've been saying.

Only between a single breath is Yin/Yang in harmony
Emotion is pure energy flowing feely thru the body-Dan Millman
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Old 12-26-2008, 07:37 PM   #114
eyrie
 
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Re: Ki, Chi, and "Energy"

Perhaps you could enlighten us as to what this nebulous concept of "Ki of Heaven" is and what this equally nebulous concept of "natural energy of the universe" means in real physical terms?

Ignatius
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Old 12-27-2008, 06:18 PM   #115
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Re: Ki, Chi, and "Energy"

Quote:
Ignatius Teo wrote: View Post
Perhaps you could enlighten us as to what this nebulous concept of "Ki of Heaven" is and what this equally nebulous concept of "natural energy of the universe" means in real physical terms?
Well I'm not sure what Chiba Sensei meant when he said that, maybe you should ask him.
But for me, look at the first post of this thread:

Quote:
GeneC wrote:
There's a huge spectrum of energy flowing thru the universe, that makes all things exist, from the entire expanding Universe, to holding revolving Galaxies together, to revolving solar systems to rotating planets, to revolving atoms, all things we know of are in it: sound- ultra sound to microwaves, X rays, Gamma rays, etc, color, light, electricity, magnetism , electro-magnetism, etc. The energy we call spiritual is part of that spectrum. The Japanese call it Ki the Chinese call it Ch'i. We just mostly call it a higher power( unless we use another cultures word).. Now, saying that a Deity MADE all this happen and controls all this and then certain things happened according to human writings- that's religion

Only between a single breath is Yin/Yang in harmony
Emotion is pure energy flowing feely thru the body-Dan Millman
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Old 12-27-2008, 06:53 PM   #116
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Re: Ki, Chi, and "Energy"

But in post #113, you say "This is what I've been saying". So if you are agreeing with Tohei's quote, then you must at some level understand what this "Ki of Heaven" is... or what this "natural energy of the universe" is?

Ignatius
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Old 12-28-2008, 09:28 AM   #117
GeneC
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Re: Ki, Chi, and "Energy"

Quote:
Ignatius Teo wrote: View Post
But in post #113, you say "This is what I've been saying". So if you are agreeing with Tohei's quote, then you must at some level understand what this "Ki of Heaven" is... or what this "natural energy of the universe" is?
Ok, so then I do understand it. Are you saying you don't?

Only between a single breath is Yin/Yang in harmony
Emotion is pure energy flowing feely thru the body-Dan Millman
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Old 12-28-2008, 11:15 AM   #118
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Re: Ki, Chi, and "Energy"

Ok (since the avenue for free flow of ideas is in disrepair) I'll indiulge you. I'm referring to the energy that caused the "Big Bang", the energy that keeps Galaxies, solar systems, molecules and all living things intact. The energy that causes a newborn baby to take it's first breath. The energy that keep our hearts beating. The energy that produces sound, light, heat electricity, etc. All of the above.

Only between a single breath is Yin/Yang in harmony
Emotion is pure energy flowing feely thru the body-Dan Millman
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Old 12-28-2008, 03:19 PM   #119
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Re: Ki, Chi, and "Energy"

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Clarence Couch wrote: View Post
Ok (since the avenue for free flow of ideas is in disrepair) I'll indulge you. I'm referring to the energy that caused the "Big Bang", the energy that keeps Galaxies, solar systems, molecules and all living things intact. The energy that causes a newborn baby to take its first breath. The energy that keep our hearts beating. The energy that produces sound, light, heat electricity, etc. All of the above.
So, you mean just "energy" period; all energy that exists anywhere. Were you saying in your original post that ki, like light or the energy of a chemical bond, is just a kind of energy, or were saying that making distinctions between different kinds of energies may be unnecessary?

I am not an expert
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Old 12-28-2008, 04:39 PM   #120
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Re: Ki, Chi, and "Energy"

Quote:
Jeremy Morrison wrote: View Post
So, you mean just "energy" period; all energy that exists anywhere. Were you saying in your original post that ki, like light or the energy of a chemical bond, is just a kind of energy, or were saying that making distinctions between different kinds of energies may be unnecessary?
I used too many words (in order to make sure there was no room for misunderstanding what I was saying, but what good that did- no offense) to say that all energy present in the Universe is in the same spectrum and Ki is included in that spectrum. To you, I mean(t) both(except the only distinction is negative/positive). I've discovered since my first post that huge emotion is pure energy flowing thru the body, so expressing extreme emotion is expressing Ki and if it's anger, etc, it's negative Ki and if it's joy, spirit, etc it's positive.

Last edited by GeneC : 12-28-2008 at 04:53 PM.

Only between a single breath is Yin/Yang in harmony
Emotion is pure energy flowing feely thru the body-Dan Millman
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Old 12-28-2008, 05:17 PM   #121
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Re: Ki, Chi, and "Energy"

This is significant to me, because all my life I've been 'intense'. Some'd say I wear my heart on my sleeve. So much so, at 49 (1 month ago) I found myself in ER for chest pains. Alot of it was because of my personality. Docs told me to become someone else, or else. Right here, I learned that I couldn't be someone else, but I could 'channel' that energy in a positive way. Turns out I've had Ki flowing thru me practically all the time and didn't know it, 'til now. Now I know what it is and now I have to learn to control it.That's why my Guardian Angel led me to Aikido.

Last edited by GeneC : 12-28-2008 at 05:24 PM.

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Old 12-28-2008, 07:33 PM   #122
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Re: Ki, Chi, and "Energy"

That's an interesting take on it. I used to get very angry, too, when I was younger - the way that I worked on it was to imagine myself physically bigger than any situation (the image I used was the ocean), and I found that, with practise, it really set me outside of things. So much so, in fact, that I grew to have a strange sense of being vaguely outside of time, which was uncomfortable. The anger didn't have to be channeled then (in my case anyway) because it was never provoked. I think that I had gone too far to that pole, actually - over a few years several people who were very close to me said that I seemed cold and emotionless (some meant it as a compliment, some not so much)! Then I worked on focussing back in and being more present. I think that I've reached a happy medium now, emotionally. I get angry enough to feel human, but not so much that it's unhealthy or infringes on other people's paths.

I started aikido at the same time that I working on being less cold and more present, and I hadn't really thought of ki as being emotion. Although I have to say also that it was several years before I began to feel what I thought might be ki in aikido, and even now it's not something I can summon up or control much, especially for long periods of time. It's more like something I can feel happening, usually in waves or flashes, almost always with techniques that I know very well and almost always only in one part of a technique, even.

It's hard to describe, so bear with me, GeneC, as I do my best:

I most feel what I call "ki" when my consciousness is stretched between being outside of the situation enough that I can blend with uke or nage without changing myself, yet present enough to create an arc of tension where I want it. You know how electricity works? Energy is gathered up on one side of a circuit, and this gathering-up is a tension. The universe just wants to relax, and when the circuit is grounded, the energy that was gathered up is allowed to relax and disperse. You construct a circuit that forces the relaxing energy to pass through an imperfect conductor like the filament of a light bulb, and some of the energy is spent creating heat/light - you've built the path, and the electricity goes where you want it to. When I "feel ki happening", it's like my "outsideness" or "oceanness" is both the source and ground of energy, and my presence and focus is what lets me arc that energy in whatever shape I want. I can't do it very well, or even often! But I can feel it when it does happen, and it feels like the most powerful thing. Is this ki? I don't know - but I'm also pretty much a novice relative to most of the people that write here.

There's another thing that I feel sometimes that I think of as "kokyu", and while the happy clarity and recognition is similar, this thing is not the same as what I think of as "ki". Sometimes, mostly when I am doing something over and over, I'll feel like I'm falling into the "true" pattern of the technique, or the platonic ideal of the technique, the spirit of it, whatever. It feels like being in tune. When I feel like me and my partners are both part of this true-feeling pattern, then it feels like singing in harmony (I don't know if you know what that's like, but that's just how it feels). I call that "kokyu". Again, it's elusive, and I can't "make" it come (yet), but I can feel it when it happens.

I don't know if this informs your search or your training at all. I know that, for myself, it gives me an idea of what I'm working toward (slowly..<sigh>..) and some (subjective) criteria that allow me to reflect on how well I'm doing.

Happy new year!

Last edited by Voitokas : 12-28-2008 at 07:35 PM. Reason: typo

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Old 12-29-2008, 09:54 AM   #123
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Re: Ki, Chi, and "Energy"

OH yes, I can relate to what you're saying ( I've been playing Guitar since I's 10 yrs old). I know about musical harmony and like the way you liken Kokyu to it. Most call that 'breath', but I like to think of Kokyu more as a state of compatibility, as well. I'm just beginning to explore this.
To me, Ki is a momentary intstantaneous occurance at the point of physical exertion. This'd explain how a small, frail mother lifts a car off her child. A moment of great emotion( fear, panic, anger) when equally great energy is flowing freely thru her body.
Also, maybe that's why we're taught to lower our hips and feel the weight underneath, to be 'grounded' .

What I find fascinating is how one can be totally relaxed and express Ki at the same time.

Happy New Years to you !

Only between a single breath is Yin/Yang in harmony
Emotion is pure energy flowing feely thru the body-Dan Millman
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Old 12-29-2008, 09:20 PM   #124
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Re: Ki, Chi, and "Energy"

Quote:
Clarence Couch wrote: View Post
Ok (since the avenue for free flow of ideas is in disrepair) I'll indiulge you. I'm referring to the energy that caused the "Big Bang", the energy that keeps Galaxies, solar systems, molecules and all living things intact. The energy that causes a newborn baby to take it's first breath. The energy that keep our hearts beating. The energy that produces sound, light, heat electricity, etc. All of the above.
Wow...and the jokes keep on rolling in.

Clarence,
Check out the "Baseline Skillset" thread and you'll know where eyrie is coming from.

Hint: Ki of Heaven he's referring to is a physical thing
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Old 12-29-2008, 10:01 PM   #125
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Re: Ki, Chi, and "Energy"

Quote:
GeneC wrote:
I'm referring to the energy that caused the "Big Bang", the energy that keeps Galaxies, solar systems, molecules and all living things intact. The energy that causes a newborn baby to take it's first breath. The energy that keep our hearts beating. The energy that produces sound, light, heat electricity, etc. All of the above.
Quote:
Robert John wrote: View Post
Wow...and the jokes keep on rolling in.

Clarence,
Check out the "Baseline Skillset" thread and you'll know where eyrie is coming from.

Hint: Ki of Heaven he's referring to is a physical thing
Notice I didn't say anything about "Ki of heaven"in my response.

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