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Old 11-27-2008, 12:29 PM   #1
Marko Ilic
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Question Help with Shihonage

Hello everyone. I need help with Shihonage,when I do it either my opponent counters me by pulling my arms down or he/she just simply spins out. I need advice on doing it right.

Thanks,
Marko

Last edited by Marko Ilic : 11-27-2008 at 12:30 PM. Reason: spins out
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Old 11-27-2008, 03:01 PM   #2
mwpowell
 
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Re: Help with Shihonage

Hi Marko,

I had this same problem & my sensei pointed out that I was allowing my hands to move back behind my head as I entered. He told me to keep my hands out in front of my face where I can see them as I enter; this extends nage's arm so that he can't spin out, and keeps him off balance.

mark

Be willing to give up all that you now are, to be all that you can become.
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Old 11-27-2008, 05:51 PM   #3
eyrie
 
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Re: Help with Shihonage

This question has been addressed in these other threads:
http://aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15168
http://aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13289
http://aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2718

Ignatius
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Old 11-28-2008, 12:01 AM   #4
Marko Ilic
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Re: Help with Shihonage

Thanks.
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Old 11-28-2008, 02:02 AM   #5
Mark Stokmans
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Re: Help with Shihonage

That's the tip you need. And if uk does pull back his arm follow the enrgy drop to your knees and perform shiho nage underneath the arm. Devestating effect.

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Old 11-28-2008, 07:04 AM   #6
Harm-ony
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Re: Help with Shihonage

i think first you must 'unbalance' the uke by drawing uke's hand out of uke's center.
Keep your hands in front of you (you must can see your hands easily right in front of your eyes) even when you turning your body.
Do not lift your hands over your head. the uppest position is in front of your forehead.

Hopefully useful,

Peace and Love,
sceptic aikido indonesia bandung

http://www.sceptic-aikido.blogspot.com

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Old 11-28-2008, 01:38 PM   #7
David Maidment
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Re: Help with Shihonage

As above, I've always been told "make sure you can see your hands at all times". Seems to do the trick.
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Old 12-01-2008, 09:16 AM   #8
Don_Modesto
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Re: Help with Shihonage

Quote:
Marko Ilic wrote: View Post
Hello everyone. I need help with Shihonage,when I do it either my opponent counters me by pulling my arms down or he/she just simply spins out. I need advice on doing it right.

Thanks,
Marko
No one in your dojo has corrected you?

Don J. Modesto
St. Petersburg, Florida
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http://www.theaikidodojo.com/
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Old 12-01-2008, 10:26 AM   #9
Marko Ilic
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Re: Help with Shihonage

The Sensei told me that I am doing it wrong but than the judo "school" has arrived and he hasn't shown me.
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Old 12-01-2008, 12:54 PM   #10
odudog
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Re: Help with Shihonage

There are three ways that I have come across so far to fix this problem. Some of them I can do and some I can't but have felt it being done on me.
1) apply pain to the wrist before going under the arm {felt it, can't do it}
2) lock the shoulder and elbow in place before going under the arm {can do it in suwariwaza, will try to understand in tachiwaza}
3) extend the arm horizontally before going under {can do this}
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Old 12-05-2008, 12:27 AM   #11
Marko Ilic
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Re: Help with Shihonage

OH, and can you remind me how the ura version is done?
thanks
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Old 12-05-2008, 11:45 AM   #12
Don_Modesto
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Re: Help with Shihonage

Quote:
Marko Ilic wrote: View Post
OH, and can you remind me how the ura version is done?
thanks
As above, lock up UKE. Do this by leading UKE slightly beyond where he wanted to grab you. This means taking initiative and engaging with UKE's intent--don't wait passively til grabbed. As you engage or just before, drop your elbow. This sometimes inclines UKE to raise his own shoulder for having to reorient his grip to the more vertical target. He should already be off balance toward you.

Brace UKE's wrist with your free hand and continue leading UKE beyond his support and TENKAN. As above, keep UKE's hand visible or you'll be susceptible to being pulled back off balance yourself. If UKE is advanced, continue walking behind him cranking down on his arm barred on your shoulder (tough version). If he's a beginner, after completing TENKAN--180 degrees, with your left foot if grabbed on the right side, move your right foot out 90 degrees to cut down directly behind UKE's shoulder (no shoulder bar.)

Don J. Modesto
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Old 12-05-2008, 04:50 PM   #13
Jonathan
Dojo: North Winnipeg Aikikai
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Re: Help with Shihonage

Just one bit of advice: Keep your centerline and your hands in line with each other. Don't do this merely by keeping your hands where you can see them. Since your head can move off alignment with your centerline (by turning to right or left) simply being able to see your hands in front of your face doesn't guarantee your hands will be aligned properly with your centerline. I don't know how many times I've seen shihonage performed where nage's centerline rotates away from his/her head (particularly in the ura version) as nage prepares to turn under uke's arm. This puts nage in a very weak, twisted posture, which uke can easily exploit. Instead, make sure you don't turn your head independently of your centerline as you move through shihonage. Your chin should always be right over your centerline through your performance of shihonage.

Gambatte okudasai!

"Iron sharpens iron; so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend."
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Old 12-09-2008, 06:34 AM   #14
Mary Eastland
 
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Re: Help with Shihonage

Marko:
If someone in my class was working on details from the internet and I was teaching details about shiho nage I think it would frustrating for the student. Maybe you could ask your teacher again or someone in your dojo...there are many variations of shiho nage... your teacher may want you to be working on the way he or she teachs it.
Mary
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Old 12-10-2008, 04:25 PM   #15
Norton
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Re: Help with Shihonage

You're not supposed to lift the uke's arm. You're supposed to slide under it. If you raise the arm, the uke has the power.
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Old 12-10-2008, 04:41 PM   #16
Sy Labthavikul
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Re: Help with Shihonage

I've been taught that you CAN lift the arm, but you have to do so in such a manner that uke's body is extended out. So lifting or not lifting the arm is moot: if you move in such a way that uke's body is always stretched out, he can't regain his composure while you continue your movement into a superior position.

A rather silly but useful mnemonic that I was taught when I first started learning shihonage waza was to simultaenously lower my weight while lifting uke's wrist to my forehead, and stick it there. That way, when I turn and move to uke's dead angle, I always keep uke's arm directly in front of me. Eventually I stopped sticking uke's wrist to my forehead and instead keep uke's arm fully extended in front of me at eye level, while I bend my knees and sink down my weight (keeping upright posture) so that my eye level was about level with uke's sternum.

Sounds easy, but still working on it all the time. Particularly flexible people (like the yoga practitioners in my dojo) are especially difficult to unbalance. Its like their arms are snakes.


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Old 12-10-2008, 05:33 PM   #17
Norton
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Re: Help with Shihonage

Quote:
Sy Labthavikul wrote: View Post
I've been taught that you CAN lift the arm, but you have to do so in such a manner that uke's body is extended out. So lifting or not lifting the arm is moot: if you move in such a way that uke's body is always stretched out, he can't regain his composure while you continue your movement into a superior position.

A rather silly but useful mnemonic that I was taught when I first started learning shihonage waza was to simultaenously lower my weight while lifting uke's wrist to my forehead, and stick it there. That way, when I turn and move to uke's dead angle, I always keep uke's arm directly in front of me. Eventually I stopped sticking uke's wrist to my forehead and instead keep uke's arm fully extended in front of me at eye level, while I bend my knees and sink down my weight (keeping upright posture) so that my eye level was about level with uke's sternum.

Sounds easy, but still working on it all the time. Particularly flexible people (like the yoga practitioners in my dojo) are especially difficult to unbalance. Its like their arms are snakes.
Well, I was exactly taught this way,too. By not lifting, I meant not LIFTing.
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